Is the Cerastus Castigator worth it?

[Bouargh]

Hi folks,

 

I must admit that I like the esthetic of the Cerastus chassis, but while paying today a little bit more attention to the Castigator datasheet, I raised my eyebrowns... Does it worth it?

 

I mean, while comparing with the Knight warden I see little incentive in favour of the Cerastus:

- Main shooting weapons are almosts the same - you trade Devasting wounds in favour of Twinlinked

- HtH weapon is the same if you go Reaper chainsword on the Warden

- Cerastus is 2" faster and 3 W tougher...

- ... but the Warden has a heavy flamer, a meltagun and a carapace weapon

 

Showing in the end an extra cost of 15pts (and 15 € too) for the Cerastus.

What am I missing, if I am missing something? Is the Castigator worth it when you can have a Warden?

 

 

[sairence]

I'd say they're both pretty comparable.

 

Castigator ranged likely comes out better because S6 TW is pretty nice. And if they revert the Bondsman change that gun gets sustained and AP3, which makes it real spicey and beats out the Warden's dev wounds I wager. The fact that the Castigators -1 to hit effect last until the next turn is pretty decent as well.

 

As for the Bondsman on Armigers, it depends. -1 damage is always great, while the Castigor will mostly be interesting on Helverins. I'd say Warden wins out there slightly.

 

Neither of them really wants to be in combat with dedicated CC-units I reckon, but the fist the Warden can take is a bit scarier.

 

So I'd aay Castigator is probably a little better, for only 15p more. 

 

One other thing to note if you're playing in WTC terrain...I believe the Cerastus chassis is a little taller than big terrain, so can potentially see over full walls. Questoris are shorter, so would need to step out the side of it.

 

Personally, I'd like to get a Cerastus model at some point, but I prefer to wait and see if they make a combined box like they ended up doing with the Questoris.

[Lord_Ikka]

Its hard to back the Castigator. Compared to the Warden, the differences are pretty slight and can pretty much go either way-

 

Castigator:

Better Movement and Wounds

Same Melee (if the Warden has a Chainsword)

Near-same main Ranged weapon - Castigator has Twin-Linked, so is better able to push through regular wounds 

Worse Chassis Ability - Castigator will Suppress an enemy it hits with its ranged weapon, but hopefully any heavy infantry unit you target will be wiped out before it can be suppressed

Worse Bondsman ability - Castigator's Sustained/+1 AP is best for Helverins because they want the AP and have more shots to get Sustained Hits, but the Castigator itself wants to be closer to the enemy than you probably want Helverins

 

Warden:

Worse Movement/less Wounds

Same Melee/option for Gauntlet to do work against other big stuff/3W units

Near-same main ranged weapon, but has extras - Dev Wounds instead of Twin-Linked which is possibly a wash (depending on target), but gets a meltagun/heavy stubber and the option to add a carapace weapon

Better Chassis Ability - Dev Wounds on ranged vs everything but Monsters/Vehicles means that with a heavy stubber and ironstorm missile the Warden is better vs hordes

Better Bondsman ability - Damage reduction is just a great ability and helps out regardless of Armiger type

 

I love the Cerastus chassis, but don't think the Castigator is really worth it because there is a Questoris Knight that does everything it does. At least the Lancer/Atrapos/Acheron have uses that aren't really duplicated by other variants. 

[Bouargh]

Thanks all.

 

@Lord_Ikka: I guess we share the same analysis on the Cerastus.

 

On 4/19/2024 at 4:08 AM, Lord_Ikka said:

I love the Cerastus chassis, but don't think the Castigator is really worth it because there is a Questoris Knight that does everything it does. At least the Lancer/Atrapos/Acheron have uses that aren't really duplicated by other variants. 

 

About the other Cerastus chasis, well, I am a little bit less convinced. I find that they are all more or less very tight with the rest of the range. Most of the time the difference is tiny and may eventually be related to a niche focus or an emphasis on a specific aspect of the tactics.

- the Lancer is close of the Galant for example, The latter having maybe a little bit more tactical flexibility while the former is a tad tougher and getsa little bit more shooting with its energy discharges. It is probably the Cerastus chassis that is the most interesting in my opinion.

- the Atrapos is very close of the Preceptor, yet it is more orienetd to hunting down titanic stuff and monstruosities. A good investment against Tyrannids or other knights but, are there enough of these to justify the investment? Beyond the very cool Mechnicus vibe of its design of course... 

- The Acheron is an oddity. It is not really close of anything else. Yet, for me, it is the less useful of the 3 (or 4 if including the Castigator). I think is is globally under armed and that its flame cannon is simply not leading to enough damage output for a Titanic machine of 400 pts or something (comparatively, a land raider reedemer does far more for a lot less points, which for me is an evidence of an unfavourable efficiency/cost ratio for the Knight...). This is the one I would leave in the Mechanicum workshop...   

 

I am wondering if a Knight Codex will change this in a next future...

[Lord_Ikka]

The Lancer vs Galant is interesting. The Bondsman ability the Lancer has of Advance and Charge is a little better in my view than the Gallant's re-roll Charges/+1 to Hit, simply because it means that the odds of getting 1st turn charges off are pretty good; pressuring the enemy hard is always good for Knights, The shooting for either is meh- just the chest gun/carapace options for the Galant, and while the Lancer's lance has Sustained Hits 2, without any AP it is a lackluster weapon. Much more interesting is the Lancer's Shock Charge ability, because getting 22 dice to fish for 5+ mortals for free is great, while the Galant's -1 to hit it in melee is also decent, but not nearly as fun. For me, the Lancer wins out here, just because Tank Shock for free plus hurling 1/2 Warglaives into the enemy's face is so satisfying (makes me really want to get one).

 

The Atrapos is just a solid anti-tank Knight. While its Bondsman ability is lacking against any army that isn't a mirror match or Chaos Knights, its regular chassis ability means that you're always going to be hitting the targets you want to (Vehicles/Monsters) on 2+ and the weapons it has are designed to do lots of damage against those targets. The lascutter's Sustained Hits (1) is a useful bonus and it also has a straight 5+ invuln, even in melee, which is nice to have. I've used it often and it will frequently make back its points, especially in vehicle-heavy metas, or be a great distraction carnifex where the enemy focuses all fire on it.

 

The Acheron is...disappointing. The abilities, both Bondsman and chassis, are just not great- Battle-Shocking an enemy isn't super useful for loyal Knights, and removing cover from a unit you've fired at is only so-so, as you really want to have burnt up whatever you shot at to begin with. It's chainfist is really just a chainsword this edition, with no difference in the statline. The flamer is ok, it will kill off some stuff (if you get enough roll on the 2d6 hits), but with the big Knights not allowed to Overwatch... ugh.  Its a Knight that should be a mini-Valiant with a good close-combat punch, but really doesn't live up to what it should be. Really disappointing, because the idea of a giant flamer-wielding infantry-destroying Knight is really cool. 

 

The FW Questoris (Magaera/Styrix) are also pretty lacking. Their Bondman ability is alright, and the Magaera actually has a decent chassis ability (heal d3 wounds per turn), but their siege claw is just a copy of the gauntlet with a so-so anti-infantry flamer and their main guns are very much missing some AP. The Styrix's volkite could be good, but you are banking on using its Dev Wounds ability to push through damage, while the Magaera is really all about hoping you get enough Sustained Hits with the lighting cannon to swamp the enemy with armor saves and drop a few. Neither beat out any of the regular Questoris Knights for usefulness, or even really equal them, so they stay on shelves.

 

I'm going to be really interested in the new Knights codex when it comes out, they are my main competitive army. While I don't think they will update the FW stuff (I don't believe they have done that with any of the new codices), giving Knights some more detachments will hopefully help out their fairly lackluster performance right now. I'm also wondering if because the Lancer/Acheron/Castigator are now plastic kits, albeit technically 30k boxes, if they will be in the main codex now. 

[sairence]

The Lancer wins any contest against the Gallant simply by virtue of having an always on 4++. Meaning you never need to rotate shields and you have an invun in CC. Add to that the extra movemeny and free tank shock and it's no real contest. 

 

The Gallant is still great imo, and significantly cheaper, but doesn't really survive combat against equivalent targets if for some reason it fails to murder it first. The Lancer should generally bounce 50% of hits it takes, so can actually sustain a fight. 

[Bouargh]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ikka said:

The FW Questoris (Magaera/Styrix) are also pretty lacking. Their Bondman ability is alright, and the Magaera actually has a decent chassis ability (heal d3 wounds per turn), but their siege claw is just a copy of the gauntlet with a so-so anti-infantry flamer and their main guns are very much missing some AP. The Styrix's volkite could be good, but you are banking on using its Dev Wounds ability to push through damage, while the Magaera is really all about hoping you get enough Sustained Hits with the lighting cannon to swamp the enemy with armor saves and drop a few. Neither beat out any of the regular Questoris Knights for usefulness, or even really equal them, so they stay on shelves.

 

True enough.

And despite all of this, I invested in a Styrix for only one reason: its lookl.

As atm it will be a Freeblade bound to a Skitarii force, selecting it and not a more classical type of knight is even more questionable game wise. But "Rule of Kool" prevailed in my decision making. 

[Marshal Mittens]

I mean rule of cool, if you like it's looks, run it. Models you like are more fun!

Edited Monday at 08:49 PM by Marshal Mittens