The Annual Space Marine Wishlist - Units, Codex Changes, Hopes for the future, etc etc

[Orange Knight]

14 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Something I'd be willing to consider if we had a modern kit... at some point ill probably just get a heresy one

 

This is a major issue, imo.

 

Marines deserve a massive Assault Vehicle tank. It can be a bigger Repulsor variant to keep it in line with the new aesthetic. 

 

Initially I was quite put off by the hovering tanks, but I think the Repulsor Executioner finally won me over with that big turret and cannon. Also, the way the clear stand is concealed makes them look very good on the tabletop. 

[DemonGSides]

28 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

It's not a single use case. It's good with Sternguard, Infernus marines, Intercessors, etc.

 

It just isn't the cheap assault vehicle people want it to be and they can't get over that fact.

 

It's hands down better than the Rhino AND the Razorback.

 

It is a single use case; it's got firing deck so it makes hazardous a little less painful.  Otherwise it fails compared to any other transport in any other line.

I'm not comparing it to the also terrible rhino, or the also terrible drop pod, or the also terrible Razorback.  I'm comparing it to other factions, and they all outshine the entire Space Marine line (except maybe Tyranids?  and probably a few others, hyperbole aside).

Point being;

 

Quote

Small things like that that are easily rectified with a little more love and care applied to the datasheets.

 

 

They can turn the Impulsor from a pretty meh 6 man transport into a pretty awesome 8 man transport that gives it more utility without completely breaking it compared to other factions or even other transports in the model line.  Right now, your only real option is Land Raider for any sort of offensive delivery.  I think that's kinda dumb, especially when compared to a Death Guard Rhino which holds 12 AND has Firing Deck AND holds the most current model line no issue, something that no SM vehicle can even really compare on.

 

 

Edited April 22 by DemonGSides

[Karhedron]

45 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

It's not a single use case. It's good with Sternguard, Infernus marines, Intercessors, etc.

 

At 80 points, you would be better in most cases to just take another squad of the above. Hellblasters clock in at 125 points which is just enough that the protection and mobility offered by the Impulsor is better (or cheaper) than another 5-man squad. But even so you are paying 205 points for a light tank with 10 S7 shots (or S8 if you are willing to risk Hazardous). At that point it is competing against other tanks.

 

For an extra 15 points you can get a Repulsor Executioner which has pretty impressive firpower of its own, is a lot tougher and can also transport 6 Marines if necessary. In fact if you add a Character to the Impulsor, the Executioner works out considerably cheaper.

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

At 80 points, you would be better in most cases to just take another squad of the above. Hellblasters clock in at 125 points which is just enough that the protection and mobility offered by the Impulsor is better (or cheaper) than another 5-man squad. But even so you are paying 205 points for a light tank with 10 S7 shots (or S8 if you are willing to risk Hazardous). At that point it is competing against other tanks.

 

For an extra 15 points you can get a Repulsor Executioner which has pretty impressive firpower of its own, is a lot tougher and can also transport 6 Marines if necessary. In fact if you add a Character to the Impulsor, the Executioner works out considerably cheaper.

 

The Repulsor Executioner really brought the Impulsor conversation into context. I do think six Infernus marines with Immolation Protocols (Firestorm detachment, torrent weapons gain Devastating Wounds) could make that 205 points worthwhile.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, jaxom said:

The Repulsor Executioner really brought the Impulsor conversation into context. I do think six Infernus marines with Immolation Protocols (Firestorm detachment, torrent weapons gain Devastating Wounds) could make that 205 points worthwhile.

 

I like the Firestorm detachment but my preffered target for Immolation protocols is Flamestorm Aggressors (twin liniked) with a Gravis Captain to make the stratagem free. Of course that needs a LR to deploy effectively and is really a different use case.

[CCE1981]

I regularly run two 5-man Infernus Squads in Impulsors, you aren't gonna beet that speed,  To date it has been a headache for all my opponents, it always has a role whether it is to clear chaff or grab objectives.  Even when my opponent does through stuff to take them down they have to throw a lot of stuff, and end up using far more points to take out their role.

[StrangerOrders]

Largely agree on the need to consolidate but I am not sure GW will ever be in favor of modular kits in terms of 40k, they've been coming around a bit lately with the more ample chapter sprues but I don't see it getting to 30k levels.

 

And to be clear, we need 30k levels as we currently have like 5 units of tactius that is literally just the Tactical Support Squad from Heresy (Hellblasters, Infernus, etc).

 

Same goes for Phobos and most chars as others have said.

 

In terms of wishlist, I kind of want a Rhino replacement in terms of Gameplay (the Repulsor being too heavily armed and expensive to count), the Impulsor's limited transport capacity are very annoying in light of GW killing squad size flexibility. So either up the Impulsor's capacity or give us a proper new Rhino.

 

The range itself is mostly fine aside from weird limitations on mobility, especially with regards to chars. We need more Jump and Bike sculpts and they would be best left as wargear rather than individual units. Assault Termies and Vanguard would fill up the last big hole.

 

As for the Divergent Chapters, honestly GW hit the nail on the head with the BT & DA model, even if it means some painful cuts.

 

Limit the Wolves to a Wolfguard Troop and Termie Kit, limit the BA to Death Company and Sanguinary kit. I have and love my Viking and Psychic Dreads but I am not sure they are essential, I love Thunderwolves but they are not as important to the core as elites covered in runes, trophies and knotwork. Throw in a generous upgrade sprue in line with the two previous and we are golden. 

 

Then it can be a steady stream of chars each edition and we can get all the priests and specialists back at a comfortable pace. 

 

Not sure this really jives with the Stormcast-esque "New functional army each edition that is distinct so you have to buy' model, but it would return us to a comfortably stable identity with room for touchups here and there.

 

If we indulge in the wacky, I would like to see each bloodline get a unique unit for the parent chapter and their successors but thats a pipedream (I forever crave a unit of IF Terminators with upgraded stormbolters and Storm Shields, but thats a fairly distinct fetish lol).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I’d like an upgrade sprue and new options for the impulsor tbh.

maybe a lastalon turret option or an onslaught gatling gun option.

 

more weapon options for eradicators, like las talons would be cool.

Edited April 23 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

The range itself is mostly fine aside from weird limitations on mobility, especially with regards to chars. We need more Jump and Bike sculpts and they would be best left as wargear rather than individual units.

 

I think it was from when a single Marine character could wreck a lopsided amount of face. Mobility made them a fire-and-forget missile. That's been toned down a lot so I could see them coming back. Jump Pack Captain seems like a good indicator of it. 

 

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’d like an upgrade sprue and new options for the impulsor tbh.

maybe a lastalon turret option or an onslaught gatling gun option.

 

more weapon options for eradicators, like las talons would be cool.

I'd be all for this if it replaces the Razorback. Then the Impulsor officially becomes the 6-man gunboat transport and something new can replace the Rhino or the Rhino can transport more things, like @StrangerOrders mentioned.

[CL_Mission]

4 hours ago, StrangerOrders said:

If we indulge in the wacky, I would like to see each bloodline get a unique unit for the parent chapter and their successors but thats a pipedream (I forever crave a unit of IF Terminators with upgraded stormbolters and Storm Shields, but thats a fairly distinct fetish lol).

 

It's still no doubt unlikely but would it be a little more likely if we imagined new units indicative of the those chapters but not locked to them similar to the detachments in the codex. For example, a veteran biker squad, all the accompanying fluff is WS focused as well as the art and studio painted minis for the box, some optional WS paraphernalia on the sprue but can be generic marines as well.  This way you don't have too many units in the Codex that other players can't use or whole bunch of supplements which I know we had them before but still seems gratuitous considering how many Space Marine books there already are.  

[CCE1981]

I think that the Impulsor could be “fixed” by adding transport Capacity as a Wargear Option:

 Missile Array, Skytalon Array, Comms Array, Shield Dome, +2 Transport Capacity.  You get the extended Capacity that would make a difference and you don’t have to change the kit.  
 

Other than that I think upgrade sprues would help and I think more than the standard.  It really wouldn’t take much to have a Tacitus, Phobos, Gravis abd Terminator set for each of the Core Chapters and a few Generic ones like what you get from the Deathwatch.

[DemonGSides]

4 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’d like an upgrade sprue and new options for the impulsor tbh.

maybe a lastalon turret option or an onslaught gatling gun option.

 

more weapon options for eradicators, like las talons would be cool.

Eradicators don't really need another S9/10 option.

Give them proper las-cannons.  They're big boys, they can handle a gun bigger than what the Eliminators get.  Ideally it'd be twin-linked, but that's probably asking lot.  Coming in at S12, it'd at least open a niche.  Kind of a non-bo with the unit ability tho to re-roll damage.

I'd like to see a rocket launcher on them, and then we can just delete Desolation Squad from existence and forget it ever happened!

Edited April 23 by DemonGSides

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

Kind of a non-bo with the unit ability tho to re-roll damage.

Ha, you assume it would be the same data slate  Eradicators with Las-lances: S12 AP3 Dd6 Sustained Hits 1 and a special rule that let's them Crit on a 5+ when targeting Vehicles and Monsters.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Eradicators don't really need another S9/10 option.

Give them proper las-cannons.  They're big boys, they can handle a gun bigger than what the Eliminators get.  Ideally it'd be twin-linked, but that's probably asking lot.  Coming in at S12, it'd at least open a niche.  Kind of a non-bo with the unit ability tho to re-roll damage.

I'd like to see a rocket launcher on them, and then we can just delete Desolation Squad from existence and forget it ever happened!

I try to keep my wish list requests fairly realistic, and there’s no evidence a lascannon will be making any comebacks any time soon for primaris or any new kits or upgrade sprues for primaris units, as they step on the toes of the laser destroyer a bit too much 

 

But S10 and 36” is a massive AT buff imho.  Meltas now only wound most light armor like a chimera on a 5+, and something a stormspeeder on a 4+.
 

a lastalon wounds things like chimeras on 4s and things like stormspeeders on 3s, while doing more damage.

on a slow moving unit, range seems to be a big advantage.

 

melta has one more AP, and more damage if within half range, but at 5” movement, that’s asking a lot from them.

Edited April 24 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Orange Knight]

Meltas can indeed be underwhelming at converting, unless they happen to be re-rolling all hits, all wound and all damage rolls.

[AutumnEffect]

6 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

I think that the Impulsor could be “fixed” by adding transport Capacity as a Wargear Option:

 Missile Array, Skytalon Array, Comms Array, Shield Dome, +2 Transport Capacity.  You get the extended Capacity that would make a difference and you don’t have to change the kit.  

 

This is a really great suggestion, especially in a world where there's no reason not to take something on the top of it any more.

[Orange Knight]

I don't know if anyone saw, but Valrak discussed some Blood Angel rumors. From what he said we can expect/hope for:

 

-Primaris Astorath

-Primaris Lemartes

-New Sanguinor

-Primaris Sanguinary Guard

-Death Company Upgrade Sprue

-Boxset with new models and a Brutalis Dreadnought.

 

[DemonGSides]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I try to keep my wish list requests fairly realistic, and there’s no evidence a lascannon will be making any comebacks any time soon for primaris or any new kits or upgrade sprues for primaris units, as they step on the toes of the laser destroyer a bit too much 

 

But S10 and 36” is a massive AT buff imho.  Meltas now only wound most light armor like a chimera on a 5+, and something a stormspeeder on a 4+.
 

a lastalon wounds things like chimeras on 4s and things like stormspeeders on 3s, while doing more damage.

on a slow moving unit, range seems to be a big advantage.

 

melta has one more AP, and more damage if within half range, but at 5” movement, that’s asking a lot from them.

 

A Las talon is s10 (at best, there's at least one at S9), so I don't think it's as impactful as you think it's going to be.   Hence why I want a S12 gun (S14 las seems to be reserved for tanks), so that it does the things you're saying it'll do.

 

Also I think you may want to brush up on your weapon stats.  Currently eradicators already wound on a 4+ against Chimeras; it also hits a storm speeder currently on a 4+, and any upgrade to strength on a weapon will get it to 3+ so that's a wash. (A las-talon would wound a chimera on a 3+, sure, but a rerolled 4 is pretty close to a 3+).

 

I think las talons are pretty meh!  Give me big boy stuff. Gravis armor can carry it. Ideally we could tear off the Las-Ripper from the Astraeus, that'd be glorious. But that's definitely a pipe dream; I don't think S12 shooting should be a pipe dream for a slow infantry unit. Would probably need a new data slate tho. 

Edited April 24 by DemonGSides

[Cenobite Terminator]

I would like to see a full complement of biker characters.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

A Las talon is s10 (at best, there's at least one at S9), so I don't think it's as impactful as you think it's going to be.   Hence why I want a S12 gun (S14 las seems to be reserved for tanks), so that it does the things you're saying it'll do.

 

Also I think you may want to brush up on your weapon stats.  Currently eradicators already wound on a 4+ against Chimeras; it also hits a storm speeder currently on a 4+, and any upgrade to strength on a weapon will get it to 3+ so that's a wash. (A las-talon would wound a chimera on a 3+, sure, but a rerolled 4 is pretty close to a 3+).

 

I think las talons are pretty meh!  Give me big boy stuff. Gravis armor can carry it. Ideally we could tear off the Las-Ripper from the Astraeus, that'd be glorious. But that's definitely a pipe dream; I don't think S12 shooting should be a pipe dream for a slow infantry unit. Would probably need a new data slate tho. 

Most are S10 that’s the norm as far as I can tell.

 

10 is breaking point for a lot of armored vehicles.

there are a lot of T9 vehicles now being wounded on a 3+ and T10 now wounding on a 4+.

 

imho that’s a big difference, especially with the higher damage output beyond 9”

 

 

[TheArtilleryman]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:29 PM, Marshal Reinhard said:

Something I'd be willing to consider if we had a modern kit... at some point ill probably just get a heresy one

The current kit is still awesome IMO - I don’t think it needs an update. The heresy ones look older. The rhino though; it still looks ace but it’s always needed to be bigger scale-wise.

Edited April 24 by TheArtilleryman

[Karhedron]

Lastalons are pretty close to the Superkrak missiles on the Desolators. Talons get an extra point of Ap, the missiles get an extra 12" range.

 

Gravis is tougher than Tacticus but that becomes less important at longer range. Also the Desolators get the bonus indirect fire. I would rather full sized Lascannons to make up for the likely squatting of Devastators in 11th edition. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

58 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Lastalons are pretty close to the Superkrak missiles on the Desolators. Talons get an extra point of Ap, the missiles get an extra 12" range.

 

Gravis is tougher than Tacticus but that becomes less important at longer range. Also the Desolators get the bonus indirect fire. I would rather full sized Lascannons to make up for the likely squatting of Devastators in 11th edition. 

I would too, but I just don’t see primaris marines getting regular lascannons.

[Rhavien]

18 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I think las talons are pretty meh!  Give me big boy stuff. Gravis armor can carry it. Ideally we could tear off the Las-Ripper from the Astraeus, that'd be glorious. But that's definitely a pipe dream; I don't think S12 shooting should be a pipe dream for a slow infantry unit. Would probably need a new data slate tho. 

Don't know if anyone is arguing, that they can't carry it. At least I hope so. Firstborn devastators and heavy weapon tac guys in all flavors of MK can carry a good old lascannon, so it should be easy peasy for primaris too. You can count me in for the idea of las gravis @DemonGSides

Otoh it's really not optimal from an in universe perspective. High range supporting fire units shouldn't have the need to be highly armored. If an enemy gets close, then something went wrong beforehand. On the tabletop however you won't find much spots outside of the range of enemy fire, barring against the most short ranged units. 

In the end I think they would look cool, so whatever. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Rhavien said:

Don't know if anyone is arguing, that they can't carry it. At least I hope so. Firstborn devastators and heavy weapon tac guys in all flavors of MK can carry a good old lascannon, so it should be easy peasy for primaris too. You can count me in for the idea of las gravis @DemonGSides

Otoh it's really not optimal from an in universe perspective. High range supporting fire units shouldn't have the need to be highly armored. If an enemy gets close, then something went wrong beforehand. On the tabletop however you won't find much spots outside of the range of enemy fire, barring against the most short ranged units. 

In the end I think they would look cool, so whatever. 

I think there’s plenty of reason to long range fire support units to be heavily armored in universe.

 

aliens that can teleport onto the battlefield, aliens that can fly on wings or jump packs, demons that can materialize just about any where.

 

distance from the actual frontline doesn’t necessarily mean safety