The Annual Space Marine Wishlist - Units, Codex Changes, Hopes for the future, etc etc

[Rhavien]

24 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I think there’s plenty of reason to long range fire support units to be heavily armored in universe.

 

aliens that can teleport onto the battlefield, aliens that can fly on wings or jump packs, demons that can materialize just about any where.

 

distance from the actual frontline doesn’t necessarily mean safety

Okay, then let the seargent have a proper close combat weapon to defend his squad 

[TheArtilleryman]

21 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

Okay, then let the seargent have a proper close combat weapon to defend his squad 

You mean like in a devastator squad? 

[ThaneOfTas]

33 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

You mean like in a devastator squad? 

Yes, exactly like that, infact give them multiple loadout options as well

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I think there’s plenty of reason to long range fire support units to be heavily armored in universe.

 

aliens that can teleport onto the battlefield, aliens that can fly on wings or jump packs, demons that can materialize just about any where.

 

distance from the actual frontline doesn’t necessarily mean safety

 

By that logic, everyone would be wearing Gravis.

 

At some point, the security blanket needs to be abandoned in favor of actually being able to efficiently perform the assigned task.

[DemonGSides]

7 hours ago, Rhavien said:

Don't know if anyone is arguing, that they can't carry it. At least I hope so. Firstborn devastators and heavy weapon tac guys in all flavors of MK can carry a good old lascannon, so it should be easy peasy for primaris too. You can count me in for the idea of las gravis @DemonGSides

Otoh it's really not optimal from an in universe perspective. High range supporting fire units shouldn't have the need to be highly armored. If an enemy gets close, then something went wrong beforehand. On the tabletop however you won't find much spots outside of the range of enemy fire, barring against the most short ranged units. 

In the end I think they would look cool, so whatever. 

 

Hey, I'm not the one arguing they can't, that'd be the Inquisitor.

 

I agree, but the eradicator is already out of the bag, so let's just keep slapping them big guns on em. Give em grav, give em whatever. 3 man devastator squads in gravis armor is fine by me; you only ever got 4 worthwhile devastators for what you paid for, and now we can go all the way up to six!

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

 

By that logic, everyone would be wearing Gravis.

 

At some point, the security blanket needs to be abandoned in favor of actually being able to efficiently perform the assigned task.

No, because gravis impedes mobility, and speed, not super important when you’re a long range fire support unit.

assault intercessors need to be fast and mobile, intercessors may need to be more mobile, or more durable depending on tactical situation so there are intercessors that use both.

 

 

[redmapa]

At this stage I think the whole Primaris design paradigm where each kit has little,e to no options is an absolute failure, it works on paper similar to 30k where each unit has one role and that's fine but in the physical world it blows that intercessors have no options in the kit or that there's a dozen bolter variants each slightly different but not enough to actually matter, I think moving forward GW should just return to kits with options that matter and consolidate all the useless fluff that plague some units and do the same with generic characters. Can you imagine if instead of two types of bolters the incursor kit came with special weapons or chainswords? Maybe they could actually act like saboteurs with a couple meltaguns, or if instead of 3 types of bolters intercessors had the option for special weapons? Options are not the enemy and the lack of it  has bloated the SM codex ridiculously, Devastators are one unit with more options than 3 Primaris equivalents, one kit, one datasheet, several roles that should be the SM design thought.

 

As for what I want? Terminator upgrade kits for everyone and Veteran bikers because I'm still salty that Outriders look amazing and there's no company veterans datasheet, such a cool unit that went legends just as GW updates the bike model, he'll this could be an upgrade sprue with two power weapons, some bling and done. After years of asking this I'm still hopeful that they will come.

[Karhedron]

3 minutes ago, redmapa said:

At this stage I think the whole Primaris design paradigm where each kit has little,e to no options is an absolute failure,

 

Depends on your point of view. It is frustrating to us Veterans who are used to being able to customise our squads. But for GW, minimal options means a squad is easy to balance in the game and they can sell multiple squads covering adjacent roles rather than having customers just buy one kit that can do a bit of everything. 

[Orange Knight]

I think less options is better. Customisation should still exist, but be more limited to visual options for squads.

 

Whilst weapon customisation is fun, GW have never/will never balance a unit with a lot of variables.

From an edition to edition, the best options are always shifting. 

 

Also, focused units are generally better in a wargame, whilst customisable units are better in a skirmish game.

 

When you only have a single unit in a skirmish game, you want models that can perform different tasks. When you have an army comprised of 10 units or more, you want those units to perform a single task effectively.  A single multi melta in a Tactical Squad is near worthless. A dedicated unit that puts out 8 Melta shots with dice manipulation is very effective by comparison.

 

 

I feel bad for new players that buy a squad and equip some cool looking guns, only to discover those guys are sub optimal and the squad isn't as effective as it could have been.

[jaxom]

44 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

When you only have a single unit in a skirmish game, you want models that can perform different tasks. When you have an army comprised of 10 units or more, you want those units to perform a single task effectively.  A single multi melta in a Tactical Squad is near worthless. A dedicated unit that puts out 8 Melta shots with dice manipulation is very effective by comparison.

To follow up on this, the scale of the game has changed and we can take a lot of units. I remember when I had a 2,000 Dark Angels point army of five units; three of which were Tactical Squads. I needed those special and heavy weapons. Hell, I can't remember the exact topic, but I posted a picture of the 2e Ultramarines army box list and a Devastator Squad was something like 400 points and a Tactical Squad was something like 350 points.

[Moonstalker]

Suppose I'm a few days late to the party, but I'll chip in my two cents.

 

*Eliminate the rules distinction between Firstborn and Primaris.  They've almost gotten there, but there's still some pain points they still need to address.  This includes allowing Primaris to ride in a rhino, keep the transport stuff simple with gravis/TDA being the only odd man out that counts double and only rides in repulsors/land raiders/etc.  Fluff your guys as you want, either Primaris or Firstborn, rules-wise they're the same statline.

 

*Ditch Centurions.  Some people love them, some people hate them, I'm in the latter camp.  The models have always been goofy as hell and I could never get behind them.  They duplicate roles we already have in other units - Devastators, Aggressors, Terminators, etc.

 

*Castraferrum dreadnoughts consigned to legends.  Unlike Centurions, I will be sad to see them go, but we've got the Redemptor/Brutalis/Ballistus.

 

*Hellblasters and Infernus combined into a Support Weapon Squad where their weapons and special rule are just wargear options.  Intercessors and Assault Intercessors, Infiltrators and Incursors, same-same.  Assault Squads and Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs, looks like the same picture to me.  Tactical Squads should really be a wargear option in the same entry as Intercessors/Assault Intercessors (call it Tactical Mission Loadout or something, IDK).

 

*Put Reivers out of their misery.

 

*Combine Desolators and Devastators into a new squad that we'll call Devastators.  Devastators could probably do with having their weapon list trimmed (Grav and Plasma could probably go - the first cause I like Volkite more and the second cause we already have Hellblasters), but in general I would just go with HH-style weapon kits.  Sell a box of 10 Devastators that can make two five man squads with a basic heavy weapon (missile launchers, since they're general purpose?) and then sell a HH-style box that's just a bunch of arms and heavy weapons.

 

*Probably do the same thing for the Support Weapon Squad.  Don't bother with a box of Infernus, keep selling Hellblasters as the basic Support Weapon guys, put out a sprue that has Pyreblasters, Meltaguns, and Neo-Volkites on it if you don't want to build your Hellblasters Support Weapon Squad with plasma guns.

 

*Firestrike Servo Turrets can also go to legends.  If you have to bring them back, call them Rapier Weapon Batteries and don't make them look stupid and immobile.  I know they are technically suppose to float along on their little grav feeties like a giant desk chair, but the concept is dumb and Rapiers are the same thing but cooler.

 

*Suppressor Squad.  Either be a real unit or go away.  I actually like the model and the role they fill, but they're a barely-there unit entry with incredibly limited buying options.

[AutumnEffect]

On 4/25/2024 at 11:54 AM, Karhedron said:

 

Depends on your point of view. It is frustrating to us Veterans who are used to being able to customise our squads. But for GW, minimal options means a squad is easy to balance in the game and they can sell multiple squads covering adjacent roles rather than having customers just buy one kit that can do a bit of everything. 

It also starves out the second hand/3rd party market, which I think became something of a priority for GW after the Chapterhouse fallout.

Sure there's plenty of cosmetic bits I've bought, but no more trolling around looking for a pack of five plasma guns.

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, AutumnEffect said:

Sure there's plenty of cosmetic bits I've bought, but no more trolling around looking for a pack of five plasma guns

Which is hilarious now that they released special weapon bundles via heresy. Classic GW: solutions to problems of a decade ago.

[Sergeant Centurion]

+What i think it will happend:

-New intercessor box, with all sergeants options, plus a heavy gun or special gun for each 5 and not only that stupid grenade launcher. If you ask me, give them the option for change the whole bolt rifles with storm bolters.

-Probably the storm talon, storm hawk or storm raven will be erased to for a new flying boxing tank with wings and a lot of guns on it.

-New tank alas vindicator, but with a more powerfull cannon, repulsor chasis is my taste.

-I dont like this but i think a lot of units will be moved to legends (even primaris)  when the sales drop and GW want to sell somethig similar like the 3 phobos units.

Or maybe consolidated datasheets.

 

+What i want:

-Warhammer 35k with only firstborns, i doub it but its my wishlist.

-Heavy reivers, dual swords or twin linked boltcarbines. My wishlist i said!

-HH vehicules should not be only legends.

+What will we get:

-Mk11 to sell all the stuff again in 11 ed with some equiptment twists  just kidding, but looking to SCE, i think it can happen some day.

[LSM]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Centurion said:

+What will we get:

-Mk11 to sell all the stuff again in 11 ed with some equiptment twists  just kidding, but looking to SCE, i think it can happen some day.

 

If they want to do a new Mark, maybe they can loop back around to whatever MkIX was.

[Sergeant Centurion]

I have to admit Mk IX idea obsessed me the first months of 8 ed.

[ThaneOfTas]

5 hours ago, LSM said:

If they want to do a new Mark, maybe they can loop back around to whatever MkIX was.

I maintain that MK IX is just what the mechanicus/administratum calls using a combination of MK X and earlier marks, so a few of the new Sternguard Vets are technically in Mk IX. Kinda like how Mk V was a catch all term for jerry rigged armour made of multiple other Mk's during the Heresy.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Wasn't Mark Nein the original lead guitarist in Accept?

[jaxom]

17 hours ago, Sergeant Centurion said:

I have to admit Mk IX idea obsessed me the first months of 8 ed.

 

11 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

I maintain that MK IX is just what the mechanicus/administratum calls using a combination of MK X and earlier marks, so a few of the new Sternguard Vets are technically in Mk IX. Kinda like how Mk V was a catch all term for jerry rigged armour made of multiple other Mk's during the Heresy.

 

I always figured MkIX resembled MkX, but was not modular (no Gravis or Phobos), and did not have the same level of tech improvement as MkX; so a helmet more like the Mk7/8 and less like Mk4.

[Evil Eye]

For goodness sake, let Primaris ride in Rhinos and Razorbacks (and Firstborn in Impulsors just for consistency). Also allow characters to lead units regardless of Firstborn/Primaris. If the walls between FB and Primaris were sufficiently flattened that you could theoretically run a classic Marine army as "counts-as" Primaris I'd say that'd actually be not too bad.

[MoriyaSchism]

On 4/29/2024 at 2:25 PM, Sergeant Centurion said:

+What i want:

-Warhammer 35k with only firstborns, i doub it but its my wishlist.

-HH vehicules should not be only legends.

 

This would be great as long as it doesn't follow the same scale as Horus Heresy 2.0. I'm not too fond of the tiny hands and heads on those Marines. I love the idea of "Historical" 40K.

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

For goodness sake, let Primaris ride in Rhinos and Razorbacks (and Firstborn in Impulsors just for consistency). Also allow characters to lead units regardless of Firstborn/Primaris. If the walls between FB and Primaris were sufficiently flattened that you could theoretically run a classic Marine army as "counts-as" Primaris I'd say that'd actually be not too bad.

 

Looking at the way GW is streamlining ranges with new codex releases, I imagine that there is more than a 0% chance that the remaining Firstborn units will either be retired, or in a few cases, updated to Primaris. 

[chapter master 454]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

For goodness sake, let Primaris ride in Rhinos and Razorbacks (and Firstborn in Impulsors just for consistency). Also allow characters to lead units regardless of Firstborn/Primaris. If the walls between FB and Primaris were sufficiently flattened that you could theoretically run a classic Marine army as "counts-as" Primaris I'd say that'd actually be not too bad.

 

But think of the fact that players wouldn't buy new models...the shareholders would be without their 5th home!

 

This is my major bug with marines right now and personally I think I am one of the notable "treadheads" who hates the grav plates on primaris tanks.

To clarify: Grav-Tanks can look good and be fine and well, in fact I play tau and I like the Hammerhead and Devilfish (notable grav-tanks) however I don't agree with everything single tank in space marines being grav now for no other reason than one model designer got a massive fetish for carry handles and derpy looking sideskirts. In the context of the Storm Speeder and the Impulsor, those 2 look great with the Storm Speeder I personally feel being the true final evolution and vision of what a land speeder should look like along with variants. The Impulsor covers the area that the Land Speeder Storm (the scout transport variant) had and imo works, the grav plates playing into the idea of a light, fast and able to cover any terrain while not leaving much trail (though I believe the grav-plates of these new primaris tanks don't hover normally or something?)

 

If instead of the Repulsor and Gladiator we had gotten updated and upscaled Land Raiders and Predators with various weapon options and gear, those would of been a MAJOR hit with players. Instead, they wanted to resell us Predator annihilators and Baal predators with imo really goofy looking grav plates.

 

And it is VERY clear that by the recent event within Age of Sigmar with the genocide of Stormcast eternals that THAT is what GW wanted to do originally to marines hence why our range is now bloated to extremes.

It will never happen but the ultimate wish list is to just abolish the divide between Primaris and Firstborn, and have them just become the same.

Not hard lore-wise to smooth over. Just say that due to strains of the fact that war has only gotten even MORE common and fact of life in 40k, marine chapters are falling back on the Codex Astartes not because they were told to, but because in lieu of any immediate command it provides a system to organise under that still works and allows chapters to maintain coherency for logistics and arming of brothers. Primaris marines have rapidly become members of various squads and vice versa, with the new squads introduced by Gulliman being incorparated into standard codex structure as adjacent equals to things like Devastators, Assault and Tactical Marines, with even Primaris marines taking up positions in such units and making use of older pattern gear that while maybe not as powerful as Cawl's designs, are far more easily accessed across the entire imperium. Primaris Marines also see their numbers reduce just because many chapters may consider the boost given by the 3 extra organs as largly un-needed as the resources and risk that comes from potiential failure of implanting them isn't worth it compared to having a battle-brother on the battlefield.

 

After all, 40k is about stagnation and how regressive the universe has become in aspects. How better to convey that than quite literally have Gulliman have to watch it happen in real-time (relatively speaking) in front of him and understand maybe...to an extent why the Emperor made him and his brothers and why he considers them "tools".

[Paladin777]

Honestly, I'll just be happy if predators don't go away when 11th comes around (got plenty of other things in my backlog until then). If they don't I'll probably get a couple (potentially including a Baal Predator). I very much don't like the grav tanks. 

as far as new stuff, I hope that Death Company don't end up being angry intercessors and nothing more, and instead become more like eightbound in function. 
 

A jump melee gravis unit could be cool too. 
 

That said, I haven't been able to get excited about any releases since the Brutalis. Hell, I even kitbashed my BGV out of firstborn kits, so unfortunately I'm not expecting anything to really blow me away anytime soon. 

Edited May 7 by Paladin777

[WAR]

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