2024 Pricing Update

[Captain Idaho]

9 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It wasn't intended as an attack so much as a different viewpoint and largely Brother Captain Arkley seems to be understanding of that. Everyone and every firm has a financial situation and that can be a driving factor, but in the event that someone is financially unable to keep up (which in this instance wasn't the case as noted), IP theft still isn't the correct course of action.

 

Likewise the motivations of the company are not written out and they are not communicating this is for greed any more than any frater is, but people can throw that about with abandon as it's reinforcing their narrative largely. Company puts up price to possess more money, is the same thing as person spends less to possess more money.

 

So whilst I respect the message on a mod level, I'm not sure promoting people printing GW IP is wise either.

 

I appreciate your reply explaining.

 

Let's all be cool guys. Bill and Ted style.

 

(Promotion of 3D printing is likely best utilised in a dedicated thread for detail)

[Toxichobbit]

6 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

It applies to you. It applies to everyone. You’ll go back. Everyone goes back. 

 

I've known plenty of people who have left the hobby and never gone back. Some of them decades ago. I have also left other hobbies and never considered going back to them. GW doesn't have some magical hold over people. People can. and do permanently eave all the time. 

[Doghouse]

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Just wait until people see the recent 15% price increase in print resin, and the demand driven price increases that will follow when loads of people buy printers, and that's before we get to running a printer for 12 hours a day with a background of spiralling electricity costs .

 

 

I think the electricity thing is a common misconception, I've found it works out somewhere between one to four pence an hour in uk terms and most infantry builds are about three hours at most with large vehicles being about six in my experience. I run mine maybe once or twice a week at most, maybe less, maybe once a month. With a large build plate like mine I can print multiple units at a time easily. 8k Resin costs me about £21 and for that I can print sixty or seventy terminator sized models and water washable resin cuts out additional expenses. I honestly thought it would be complicated but it's dead easy as well, the machines themselves are pretty simple to set up and run. If you can work our how to set an electric alarm clock you can run one of these.

 

I have seen a growing market of straight up scans recently which is definitely piracy though. I think for a lot of new people that i have spoken to the prices are becoming a barrier from entering the hobby so it's a bit of a catch twenty two for some and if the prices were fair and affordable then we wouldn't be seeing this happen.

 

At the end of the day I think those of us that are invested in the hobby we sigh when the price hikes are announced, grumble and complain and just end up buying the new stuff regardless for the most part which is why GW is still in business.

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Just now, Toxichobbit said:

 

I've known plenty of people who have left the hobby and never gone back. Some of them decades ago. I have also left other hobbies and never considered going back to them. GW doesn't have some magical hold over people. People can. and do permanently eave all the time. 

See you at the price hike thread next year!

[Marshal Reinhard]

39 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

It applies to you. It applies to everyone. You’ll go back. Everyone goes back. 

Not if the entire IP is given the star wars treatment. Rather far away from that still.

 

In before someone says we're there already

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Doghouse said:

I run mine maybe once or twice a week at most, maybe less, maybe once a month. With a large build plate like mine I can print multiple units at a time easily. 8k Resin costs me about £21 and for that I can print sixty or seventy terminator sized models and water washable resin cuts out additional expenses. I honestly thought it would be complicated but it's dead easy as well, the machines themselves are pretty simple to set up and run. If you can work our how to set an electric alarm clock you can run one of these.

 

All of this is true, but you won't be convincing anyone who is already set against the idea of 3D printing. I think people do in fact understand that this is a viable way to get armies for tabletop gaming at pennies on the dollar compared to GW prices, just for whatever reason they would rather it was not the case.

 

Anyway, now that I have weighed in again, no doubt we will be told this is off topic again and can get back to grumbling about prices rather than talking about solutions. You are all welcome. 

[FarFromSam]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

But you don’t understand, there is no finality. No hobby death. You are here forever. 
 

You may quit buying stuff for a time but you will still check WarCom, you’ll still argue about the lore on Reddit, you’ll have lots of opinions on how Amazon does or does not ruin Warhammer, and eventually you’ll buy another kit. 
 

No one really leaves once you’ve bought in. Price hikes suck because they feel bad. They have never and will never actually make people quit the hobby. 

 

I like this post and the responses to it.  It touches on the massive time investment of the hobby, which also requires a massive emotional investment in the hobby. 

 

 But where you reach out and point towards community engagement in the hobby, as a sign of continued support,  I find myself disconnecting into smaller like minded groups.  This is the last forum I visit,  and even here I have started using the ignore feature.   I'll probably never quit the hobby,  but I no longer engage like I used to. 

 

Thanks for the post.

Edited May 8 by FarFromSam

[Doghouse]

1 hour ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

I've known plenty of people who have left the hobby and never gone back. Some of them decades ago. I have also left other hobbies and never considered going back to them. GW doesn't have some magical hold over people. People can. and do permanently eave all the time. 

 

Without any disrespect intended to Marshal Rohr (who I respect enormously) I can honestly say I have worked with a number of people getting well into the quadruple digits over the last twenty five years online. I've seen hundreds and hundreds leave and never come back, many of whom I have known personally through helping them with lore, codex writing, sculpting tutorials, conversion and painting tips. Most are gone from the hobby and the only ones I know that are still around are here on the B&C and I've lost track of the number of communities that have dwindled and fallen by the wayside even before the social media boom.

 

Not all leave specifically because of pricing but so many do leave for many other reasons all the same sadly.  

 

[Ulfast]

Sad part as a consumer is that most things right now are way more expensive then for just a year or two ago. Even other minatures companies have higher there prices. I´m still part of the hobby but I only buy a couple of new thing every year instead of before when I could buy a new army/new system every year as my limits have been reached. But what ever we say, GW is still the best plastic minature company with a very strong IP.  

[Orange Knight]

I wish the hobby was eternal, I really do.

 

Unfortunately enough of my close friends who I used to game with regularly have checked out for various reasons. Some may well return at some point, but enough have left for me to personally see and feel an impact with people disengaging. 

[alfred_the_great]

Reddit analysis of price rises

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/7eYU6JFgFg

 

tl;dr - price rises are (in general) below inflation (for the uk and us) over a decent period. 

[Captain Idaho]

Inflation is 4.7% in the UK so it's above inflation at this exact moment.

 

Looking at the poster's own figures, the price increases are well above inflation.

[Marshal Rohr]

19 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

 

Without any disrespect intended to Marshal Rohr (who I respect enormously) I can honestly say I have worked with a number of people getting well into the quadruple digits over the last twenty five years online. I've seen hundreds and hundreds leave and never come back, many of whom I have known personally through helping them with lore, codex writing, sculpting tutorials, conversion and painting tips. Most are gone from the hobby and the only ones I know that are still around are here on the B&C and I've lost track of the number of communities that have dwindled and fallen by the wayside even before the social media boom.

 

Not all leave specifically because of pricing but so many do leave for many other reasons all the same sadly.  

 

I am willing to acknowledge I might be being too hyperbolic. 

[phandaal]

Alright, this is too good not to share. Got this email from a proxy supplier today (legally distinct, don't worry):

 

Quote

It’s an unfortunate truth that the world keeps getting more expensive. Prices for food, materials, and transportation have been trending upward for a few years now.

 

That's why we're offering 15% off our entire catalogue for everyone during this month. Because you shouldn't have to choose between your hobby and rising household costs.

 

Good luck out there.

 

[DemonGSides]

I think it's pretty healthy to ebb and flow or wax and wane with any hobby.  I believe that's probably what Marshal Rohr is more getting towards with some of the hyperbole in check.

Edited May 8 by DemonGSides

[Dark Shepherd]

as Doghouse touched on, I think people dont want to see others tune out as none of us want to lose the community vibe or people to roll dice with

 

[Tyriks]

9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Inflation is 4.7% in the UK so it's above inflation at this exact moment.

 

Looking at the poster's own figures, the price increases are well above inflation.

These are cumulative price increases and cumulative inflation since 2017, not just current. So some stuff does outstrip inflation but a lot doesn't.

 

That said, it still sucks to see how much prices have gone up in the time since I returned to the hobby! I have been selling off old projects and some units went up in price so much that I actually made money selling it at a discount compared to what I originally paid, despite some questionable paint jobs. Seeing this, and how much the bigger models have gone up, that makes more sense.

[crimsondave]

12 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Alright, this is too good not to share. Got this email from a proxy supplier today (legally distinct, don't worry):

 

 

I'm sure the timing is merely a coincidence.  

[Robbienw]

GW = Hotel California.

 

You can check out, but you can never (mentally) leave.  You can stop buying and gaming, but you'll still check in on the lore and models occasionally.  When you are an 90 year old man, you'll still think about Terminators punching Genestealers on a Space Hulk 

[Captain Idaho]

24 minutes ago, Tyriks said:

These are cumulative price increases and cumulative inflation since 2017, not just current. So some stuff does outstrip inflation but a lot doesn't.

 

That said, it still sucks to see how much prices have gone up in the time since I returned to the hobby! I have been selling off old projects and some units went up in price so much that I actually made money selling it at a discount compared to what I originally paid, despite some questionable paint jobs. Seeing this, and how much the bigger models have gone up, that makes more sense.

 

Cumulative inflation is lower too.

 

 

From the bank of England:

 

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

 

 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Something to consider is not just how we all individually view the value of the "dollar" (or pound or whatever your currency is), there is a large difference in how we all value the "hobby dollar".

 

During 8th edition and most of 9th when my brother and gaming group got back into the hobby after quitting at the end of 6th edition, it didn't matter if the next kit I wanted went from $50 to $70, I was going to get it. We were all having fun and the game at the time felt exciting to us. Now that my group quit again because of certain 10th edition changes, it doesn't matter if the $50 kit went on sale for $30, I'm not getting it to not play and not have fun.

 

For me the current state of the game matters a lot more than if the 10 toy soldier's costs $50 or $52, because it directly affects my enjoyment per "hobby dollar" spent. Long story short, power level disguised as points suuuuucks.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I think overall my opinion is this.

 

Buy from GW as much as you like,  3d print as much as you like. 

 

Use whatever hobby sundries you like.

 

It is at the end of it all it is YOUR HOBBY.

 

Not one of us on here can dictate that to you. 

 

Mogger has a low opinion of 3d printing GW stuff... You know what from a moral pov he is right. And a few years ago I would have stood aside him...

 

Now I do it for me. - None of us are Angels. 

 

Overall I have moved sideways from GW, I will still buy some things like characters... Pedro where art thou.....

Edited May 8 by Brother Captain Arkley

[Tyriks]

14 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Cumulative inflation is lower too.

 

 

From the bank of England:

 

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

 

 

That lines up with the information shown in the chart. That's 28.7% inflation, he has 27.4% inflation in USD since 2017.

[Lay]

3 hours ago, Toxichobbit said:

 

I've known plenty of people who have left the hobby and never gone back. Some of them decades ago. I have also left other hobbies and never considered going back to them. GW doesn't have some magical hold over people. People can. and do permanently eave all the time. 

I know people who want to get into the hobby but can't simply because of the prices. Or rather, most are already into some aspects of the hobby (books, video games, fan content like lore videos), except for the miniature side of things.

To me, at least, it feels like, rather than serving as entries to the game, other media are increasingly being treated as alternative (and sometimes preferable) venues of the franchise.

Edited May 8 by Lay

[WrathOfTheLion]

25 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

For me the current state of the game matters a lot more than if the 10 toy soldier's costs $50 or $52, because it directly affects my enjoyment per "hobby dollar" spent. Long story short, power level disguised as points suuuuucks.

That is a big point too, and one of the reasons I've been more into 30k recently. I haven't played any 10E, but 40k games were getting too cumbersome.

 

We're able to play a 1500-2000 pt Heresy game in less than two hours with the Siege of Cthonia missions, and can just enjoy the hobby. I think the last one we got it down to around an hour and a half?

Edited May 8 by WrathOfTheLion