2024 Pricing Update

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

As Tyriks says, not all. The first unit that came to mind, Intercessors were what, £35 on release in 2016, they're now £37.50, a 7.5% increase when, as you showed, overall average prices have gone up by 30% in that time.

 

Again, just one random example that doesn't prove a trend, however GW's price increases have paled in comparison to other % increases. It doesn't excuse their increases, but we need some perspective. 

 

 

Problem with that, aside from it being general and the figures we were discussing were showing higher prices than selecting Intercessors (that I'd say started too high), is the it's a case of saying "GW aren't as bad as YXZ therefore they're fine".

 

They're over priced. Just reading many of the posts here shows people being honest with their situation about not being able to afford things. So people are struggling and GW is pricing them out. Not everyone, but why should anyone be priced out so easily?

 

Besides that, watch this video and it'll explain GW pricing is extortionate. There's another element not being discussed but covered in the video - the costs in design are paid off very quickly so it's pure profit after that and yet GW still raises their prices and justifies it as "covering design costs."

 

Which is nonsense as the designers annual wages are split between their production of multiple items over a year and paid off very quickly (designers get like 30K a year) and the rest profit.

 

The video is from someone who literally worked in the plastic mould production industry too.

 

https://youtu.be/BakQnXbgdks?si=EOXAo2RAahC1fzr2

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

Why can't we dislike both companies that rip people off? In a month's time when the sale ends and they put their prices back up by 15%, will you be complaining about them to the same extent?

 

Won't get any argument from me there mate, I've got a deep well of disdain for all!

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

Why can't we dislike both companies that rip people off? In a month's time when the sale ends and they put their prices back up by 15%, will you be complaining about them to the same extent?

 

I consider myself pretty jaded in terms of what I expect people to say in defense of their favorite companies.

 

However, I never expected "sales are also a rip off and ending a sale is the same as implementing a permanent price increase" to be one of those things. 

 

To answer the question - no, I will not be complaining. Would be nice if they permanently cut their prices though!

[Marshal Reinhard]

20 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

That’s a bit different. The franchise was bought out by a company who still struggles to find a way to use it properly or even really understand it. Plot is a distant second to merchandising and it’s been evident more and more. 
 

GW has never claimed that the plot comes first, in fact they’ve said the opposite. It just so happens that they seem to hit more than miss when it comes to the fluff aspect of the universe, though they do stumble every now and then (and sometimes in spectacular fashion). 

Sure its different. Thank the Emperor its different! It would take very deliberate and sustained effort to bring 40k down. But were it to happen the IP would be dead to me, like star wars. 

 

Fortunately we're not even in the same orbit as that.

[DuskRaider]

39 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

Sure its different. Thank the Emperor its different! It would take very deliberate and sustained effort to bring 40k down. But were it to happen the IP would be dead to me, like star wars. 

 

Fortunately we're not even in the same orbit as that.

You’re tellin me, man… I’ve been a diehard Boba Fett fan since I was 6 and look how that turned out. I’m still angry two years later. 

[Ahzek451]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

 

The video is from someone who literally worked in the plastic mould production industry too.

 

https://youtu.be/BakQnXbgdks?si=EOXAo2RAahC1fzr2

Good video! Northern X is pretty much saying the same stuff here too, https://youtu.be/KCKu-E-RXn8?si=CPDgoyv4qu9Z6_a0

I used to be a Whale, to the point where I see someone on facebook post their "pile of shame" and it would be a large closet or small room full of kits, and my reaction would be: "hold me beer". I've heavily shifted my purchasing habits since 8th, but the reasoning is more nuanced than just being priced out. Having grown jaded over more issues with GW than just pricing, its all compiled to a point where my mission statement is: GW's current path is not sustainable. Over the past 3 years I have been acquiring the last of the mini's I want to keep me busy until death and then that's it. And I am pretty much done with that goal. I have no desire to sell off my collection, I am a hobbyist more than a gamer these days anyway, but I will not be giving GW a cent going forward. I have my own printers and am fairly proficient with Fusion360 and have designed my own custom parts/models and can do so again if I feel a need to plug a gap.

Sorry for the word vomit, but as a long time mega fan I look at GW and: "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed". 

 

Edited May 9 by Ahzek451

[Kallas]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

Great that they're having a sale etc, but personally that would annoy me - prices are going up, but they can reduce theirs? Just how badly have they been ripping me off in the past? It's like Dominoes permanently reducing their pizza prices - they could have done this any time, but chose to make excess profit for decades.

 

The 15% sale they can have brings their prices back to normal profit margins, and you've once again been overpaying. 

I mean, how is this worse than whichever company charging you more all the time, and then adding more on top every year..? It just doesn't make sense to me that you're somehow finding it more offensive that they'd be willing to drop prices temporarily, rather than increase prices for the same reasoning.

 

3 hours ago, Xenith said:

Why can't we dislike both companies that rip people off?

Sure. But one is still worse than the other. Things aren't equally bad - putting prices up vs temporarily dropping prices, one is objectively worse than the other...

[nodnol88]

I was shocked when I came back into the hobby and a Rhino wasn’t a tenner. 
 

Price increases are never great, particularly in the economy a lot of us find ourselves in…but I’m not surprised.

 

GW has always insisted on making their models in Nottingham, instead of doing it overseas (I know printing and terrain has or is done abroad), and they’ve always insisted on maintaining the same profit margin across the business. If their costs go up, so does the RRP. It’s not rocket science.

 

I genuinely think there will be a lot of the decision makers that were around for the post Return of the King dip and the days where they were literally weeks away from closing the doors. 
 

I can’t remember who it was with, but an interview Jordan Sorcery did recently shed light on the fact that GW likes to be able to cover themselves for at least a couple of years with cash in the bank if the worst was to happen. Their increased costs and overheads surely dictate that they need more in reserves for the next slump. 
 

None of this is a justification, but there are reasons behind their decisions. 
 

The wider point this raises is an interesting discussion though. The cost might increase, but the value proposition is still strong. I won’t get much change out of £30 for two cinema tickets for a two hour film I’ll be able to watch for “free” in 18 months. £100 of 40K will keep me occupied for ten of hours (especially at the rate I build and paint) and then they are there to enjoy for as long as I want to play the game and/or enjoy the models. 
 

As with any corporate decision, people should just vote with their wallets. Use Element Games or other retailers that offer a discount, buy what you need not what you want and stop giving in to the FOMO. 

[Mana]

There is a list making the rounds online of the price increases that are more than 5% in euros (It's on the 3rd page of the mirror thread of this topic in dakkadakka for those curious). For example predators and vindicators from 40k and HH are going from €55 to €60 (around 9,1%).

 

Like many I'm not happy about price increases (who really is anyway?), GW makes the products and they can charge what they want, that's just how it is. I as costumer can then decide if what they sell is worth my money.

[twopounder]

Nobody is disagreeing that prices go up, but this isn't a cup of sugar. Other forms of entertainment typically go down with inflation. VHS tapes were $100 each at one point. Now streaming is $15/mo. Computers used to be $4500, or around $10k in today's money. Warcraft 1 msrp'd for $79.99.

 

GW also did offshore codex and art production during 6th and kept the same prices for a hideously bad product.

 

It took an army of engineers and millions in investments to make the fabs for zen 5, but the nominal increase for launch was 10% and you can get them for 20 - 40% below MSRP now.

 

The whole "prices go up" stops being an excuse when you take a box of 20 cadians for $25 and turn it into a box of 10 for $35 overnight. 

 

GW is way above inflation.

 

 

[phandaal]

3 minutes ago, twopounder said:

The whole "prices go up" stops being an excuse when you take a box of 20 cadians for $25 and turn it into a box of 10 for $35 overnight. 

 

Kroot Carnivores are $45 for a box of 16 in the old models, and $55 for a box of 10 in the new models. $2.81 per model went to $5.50 per model. Both still up on the store to compare.

 

Are the new models so much better than the old that it justifies a 96% increase in price per model? Debatable.

[appiah4]

At this point I can more or less buy three complete 15 trooper Infinity armies from CB for the money it costs to buy 40 plastic kroot carnivores from GW.  And that is not even a full army.

Edited May 9 by appiah4

[Halandaar]

6 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Just reading many of the posts here shows people being honest with their situation about not being able to afford things. So people are struggling and GW is pricing them out. Not everyone, but why should anyone be priced out so easily?

 

What I find sort of disingenuous about this is the idea that "struggling" people are being priced out by GW specifically, and not every other cost in their life. GW's prices aren't changing in a vacuum and even if the percentages across all costs were equal, the impact of those percentages is obviously way bigger on the larger costs.
 

I know I don't speak for everyone but if every GW product went up by even as much as 10%, the amount that would cost me over an entire year (based on my average spending) isn't even how much my rent, council tax and commute cost has gone up by in a single month.

 

Put another way, if you used to have £100 a month spare to spend on hobbies and thanks to everything else going up you now only have £25 a month, a box of GW minis going up from £30 to £31.50 isn't the thing that makes them unaffordable, but some people seem to want to perceive it that way.

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

You can find the statements from people in this very community disingenuous if you like, but that suggests you don't have sufficient understanding of what people are experiencing.

 

Just because you can afford things and don't understand how others cannot doesn't mean your circumstances are the same as everyone here and it's condescending for you to call those you don't agree with, or understand through empathy, disingenuous.

 

I for one acknowledge that people like you can stomach price increases and aren't bothered, but I also acknowledge that others cannot and are even struggling financially.

[phandaal]

10 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

Put another way, if you used to have £100 a month spare to spend on hobbies and thanks to everything else going up you now only have £25 a month, a box of GW minis going up from £30 to £31.50 isn't the thing that makes them unaffordable, but some people seem to want to perceive it that way.

 

One single box going up is not going to price people out of collecting armies. The combination of box prices going up, box contents going down, army sizes going up, and unit viability changing constantly is what will get people out of collecting armies. Maybe £30 was already a stretch for someone because of their financial circumstances. They only had £25 to spare but they could dig through the couch cushions for another £5 and change.

 

Then that bump to £31.50 is just the last straw on top of needing two more of those units because the box size got smaller and the last unit they splurged on was rendered useless by a recent update. People will start thinking that it was already hard enough to afford, and now when it would be even harder, the company says they want more. It is a combination of things, not a vacuum.

[Kallas]

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

It is a combination of things, not a vacuum.

And to add on, even though it's been brought up before: nobody is ignoring the aspects beyond GW...but this is a forum for talking about Warhammer, so, uh, yeah of course everyone is focusing on GW's decisions.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

 

What I find sort of disingenuous about this is the idea that "struggling" people are being priced out by GW specifically, and not every other cost in their life. GW's prices aren't changing in a vacuum and even if the percentages across all costs were equal, the impact of those percentages is obviously way bigger on the larger costs.
 

I know I don't speak for everyone but if every GW product went up by even as much as 10%, the amount that would cost me over an entire year (based on my average spending) isn't even how much my rent, council tax and commute cost has gone up by in a single month.

 

Put another way, if you used to have £100 a month spare to spend on hobbies and thanks to everything else going up you now only have £25 a month, a box of GW minis going up from £30 to £31.50 isn't the thing that makes them unaffordable, but some people seem to want to perceive it that way.

 

 

Not to pile on because I think both Phandaal and Kallas told you right, but you should also consider that this is ANOTHER increase after ANOTHER increase after ANOTHER increase, year over year.  Not many of my other hobbies have had routine price increases.

So framing it as a single $1.50 increase is just as disingenuous as stating that other people's complaints that this is the straw that broke the camels back are disingenuous.  Everyone has different tolerances when it comes to spending, because how you spend money is usually a personal decision.

Edited May 9 by DemonGSides

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

You can find the statements from people in this very community disingenuous if you like, but that suggests you don't have sufficient understanding of what people are experiencing.

 

What I said was I found YOUR statement disingenuous, so kindly don't turn it into an attack on everyone who ever said they can't justify the cost anymore. 

 

I know it suits you to paint me as some kind of loaded "I'm alright jack" GW apologist whale, but I'm in the same boat as everybody else, trying to find value where I can and making trades and sacrifices where necessary. The difference, apparently, is that I know that my household bills having gone up by something like £600 a month within the last 3 years has affected my disposable income by more than GW could ever aspire to with a few quid extra on a box of models. 

 

34 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Not to pile on because I think both Phandaal and Kallas told you right, but you should also consider that this is ANOTHER increase after ANOTHER increase after ANOTHER increase, year over year.  

 

Acknowledged, but the same applies elsewhere so it doesn't really change anything. Yes the cumulative effect of GW price increases over 4 years might be more like £7 a box rather than the £1.50 I mentioned for this year, but the cumulative effect of rent/bills/etc over 4 years is also more like £600-700/pcm. The general point I was making (that increases to essential costs of living impact our ability to spend on hobbies way more than the price of those products going up does) remains. 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh you never normally follow me around and single me out for sharing an opinion that everyone has, so I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were talking to everyone since you found my position, shared by so many, disingenuous.

 

 

[DemonGSides]

5 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

Acknowledged, but the same applies elsewhere so it doesn't really change anything. Yes the cumulative effect of GW price increases over 4 years might be more like £7 a box rather than the £1.50 I mentioned for this year, but the cumulative effect of rent/bills/etc over 4 years is also more like £600-700/pcm. The general point I was making (that increases to essential costs of living impact our ability to spend on hobbies way more than the price of those products going up does) remains. 

 

I guess you're going to have to point out that anyone argued that you were "wrong", because no one has.  What hasn't been argued is that GW prices are making life unaffordable, like you tried to assert with your first post in this chain, but what has been argued is that GW is pricing themselves out of people's hobby budgets.  GW should also probably think about what people's hobby budgets are, especially if they're getting smaller.

Multiple people have told you that you're kinda missing the forest for the trees, but instead you decided to argue with the emotional guy.  That's an interesting decision.

[Lord Blackwood]

The hobby is becoming too expensive to continue buying into without the price increase because everything else in our lives is getting more expensive. 
The hobby getting MORE  expensive  in light of already being a significant financial investment is causing it to be de prioritized even for the limited money we do have to spend on entertainment. 

The cost to Add a model / unit / vehicle  to the collection is enough that Id rather spend the limited amount of "fun" money elsewhere. 
I think  thats the general feeling of some others , but I might be wrong. 

That is how I feel about the cost though. 

[Halandaar]

31 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

...but what has been argued is that GW is pricing themselves out of people's hobby budgets.  GW should also probably think about what people's hobby budgets are, especially if they're getting smaller.

 

Yeah fair enough, I'm focusing on the bigger factors reducing the overall size of my hobby budget and being bitter about that, rather than about GW trying to take a slightly bigger slice of what remains. The idea that budgets on the whole are getting smaller is imo something GW should be aware of and actively work towards addressing. My issue there (as I said earlier in the thread) is less to do with incremental price increases and more to do with the wholesale removal of accessible price points, like the £10 Easy-To-Build boxes and the £50 Start Collecting sets. 

 

31 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Multiple people have told you that you're kinda missing the forest for the trees, but instead you decided to argue with the emotional guy.  That's an interesting decision.

 

In my defence he's very easy to find objectionable, and I did "like" @phandaal's post telling me how wrong I was 

[crimsondave]

I’m gonna say this and move on because I’m just tired of being negative about the hobby.  Between that which shall not be discussed and the tone deaf price hike the entire 40K community is up in arms one way or the other. 
 

That said, I am lucky.  I have a good job with a utility company and bought my home 9 years ago when rates were low and prices were half what they are now.  My wife is a teacher so she doesn’t make a lot but enough to matter.  I can buy what I want in the hobby.  The price increases won’t change that.  A lot of people aren’t so lucky.  My sister bought a house a year or so ago half the size of mine with a 30 year mortgage and her payment is barely lower than my 15 year mortgage.  Anyone who rents is in even worse shape.  Rent is astronomical even in South Carolina.  I can’t imagine what rent is in London right now.  Everything costs more and it all adds up.

 

GW knows all this as can be seen by the first part of the article.  Knowing that, with so much drama with that which shall not be discussed, and with great profit margins already, dropping a poor mouthing article announcing a price increase seems tone deaf to the highest order.  It makes even someone who can buy whatever they want in the hobby want to slow down spending with GW.  In fact, I put in a Chinahammer order yesterday.  I’m sure someone on a tighter budget would be much more annoyed than me.  It just feels like GW is giving their customers the middle finger.  It’s not the first time and won’t be the last.

 

Anyway, I’m going to try to be more positive going forward.  I do this to relax and escape as I imagine most of you do too.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I miss the days when you could slowly add to units as you could afford them, by buying a blister of two guys now and again. Now, in order to add anything, you need to buy a whole box. I would drop $7 10 times throughout the year, but am unlike to drop $70 on anything anytime soon.

If I were starting the hobby now, I’d not know where to start, because you can’t just grab a couple models and see how you like it…most single models cost upwards of $30 USD

[MegaVolt87]

Apparently here in Australia, we got something like a 5.5% wages rise on average. Explains the price rises. You are welcome ROW !