Project Re Launch: Vashtorr / Iron Warriors back on the Table

[Prot]

So I had a ton of fun painting Vashtorr and was pretty disappointed with the results of his rules.

 

But now with the leaks, I think my Vashtorr/Iron Warrior project is clearly back in action.

 

 

Edited May 13 by Prot

[Dr_Ruminahui]

For those who don't know what Prot is talking about, the new demon vehicle oriented detachment has been leaked and it looks pretty interesting.

 

Anyway, glad to hear that your eager to get that gorgeous model onto the table, Prot.

[Prot]

Thank you Dr!

 

Ever since his storyline which I really enjoyed I've felt  he could bring so much to the table (figuratively and literally). This detachment seems to legitimize Vashtorr's existence more than ever.... even if his personal Dataslate is 'bad'. (Hard to say but larger models like Primarch's have not been very good so far.)

 

The good news is even if he stinks, I have multiple Iron Warrior Warpsmiths ready to roll. The enhancements will do very well on them, and I think with Vashtorr's detachment, it will be critical to have repair capable units on the table to help minimize the added danger brought to the Dark Pacts rule.

 

 

[Brother Nathan]

That looks awsome! Love his model but still not sure if ill get him as i have a stand in already though im more waiting on his rules to proper decide where im going with my iron warriors.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Beautiful work as always Prot and great to hear you'll be back in with your Iron Warriors, their detachment and Vashtorr's both look nuts!

[Prot]

If I recall from the books, Vashtor and Perturabo worked together. To me it fits thematically at least. And I know there is a (longshot?) rumour that Perturabo returns in an end of 10th storyline, but I will believe it when I see it.

 

I

7 hours ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Beautiful work as always Prot and great to hear you'll be back in with your Iron Warriors, their detachment and Vashtorr's both look nuts!

 

What? The IW detachment has been shown??!!

EDIT:

 

Here's the IW leaks:

 

 

And I found Vashtorr:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10 by Prot

[abaumann]

Absolutely fantastic painting…truly great stuff.

[Prot]

Just felt motivated to paint some figs this week to go with the IW/Vashtorr movement:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Gorgeous as always Prot and the basing really adds a pop of colour that constrasts nicely too!

[Prot]

Thank you. There is so much to break down here in the new codex, but I'm thinking with Venom Crawlers are a safe bet!

[Dr_Ruminahui]

They are slightly worse than before, in that they can only get their +1 attack buff when killing things in melee (and no longer in shooting) but I can't really be too upset when that makes a lot more sense fluff/background/lore wise.

 

Love your models - you have a fantastic sense of lighting.  Feel the venomcrawlers could use a little something to break up that big dome of a thorax (particularly on the mouth side) - maybe some stripes or an iron warriors symbol?

[Prot]

Thanks. I'm okay with how industrial they look. It's actually the goal.  (I've seen them with hazard stripes and I'm not entirely sold on the look.) But you never know, I may revisit them.... Right now I'm in the struggle to get as much added as I can to the collection for a test game this Friday!

 

I thought they went down a few points recently?

 

Regardless I plan on running them up with Vashtorr just to get them +1 Strength, but more importantly I need to round out the list with a Defiler (the ability to interrupt for free is looking really good.)

 

I'm on the fence about the Disco Lord, and the Heldrake. I'm wondering if it might be a better play to take the Helbrute and/or Vindicator, and potentially convert it to a Daemon Engine during the game.

[TrawlingCleaner]

The Crawlers dropped 10 points in the last MFM, however with the new codex the Soul Eater ability is changed to only activate on Melee kills:

Mildly worse but I think most of the detatchments give them a big boost so I think it comes out in the wash!

 

I love that people are coming round to the idea of Defilers, they rock!

If the kit isn't your jam, I think there's a bucnh of conversions you can do to make them look unique and not use the poor old janky kits

 

Discolords are really interesting, entirely based on their points I think. For me, I think they sort of slot in that mid-tier melee Brawler. Below Maulerfiends, Defilers, Abaddon etc but just above a Venomcrawler. Lots of S6, -1AP, D2 attacks on a fast and pretty durable frame. Enhancements and the Mounted Keyword can really boost it further too I think.

Maybe an odd opinion but Heldrakes are actually pretty good anti-C'tan IMO. Tank Shock + Anti-Fly Dev wound claws could be enough to finish a C'tan off if you're reasonably lucky I think. I've not done the maths though so I could be way out of whack!

[Prot]

I love how optimistic you are about Heldrakes. lol  They seem to go from great to horrible to okay, back to horrible in 9th. I tried them at the beginning of 10th and felt they need a real boost from a detachment. 

 

I do like that the fact the Disco lord is that rare Daemon Vehicle character that can carry an enhancement. I think that's one of his pluses right now. 

 

For a Defiler I sold mine off a while ago and I have put together and started painting 2 Soul Grinders since the foot print is so similar, I find I prefer the body. I'll probably try one (Defiler) this week in a game with the new detachment. Can't wait.

[TrawlingCleaner]

The Lord Disco is a bit of a weird one but it's not a Vehicle, it's just Mounted:

Which is a shame as it doesn't really get helped by the Soul Forged pack

[Prot]

Oh gees... that's incredible. That's what I get for assuming. 

[Kaiju Soze]

Yep, Discolord is still paying for their sins in 9th.

[Karhedron]

26 minutes ago, Kaiju Soze said:

Yep, Discolord is still paying for their sins in 9th.

 

Indeed. If they remain at their current price of 190 points then they are practically DOA.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I would say the degrading of the Venomcrawler's Soul Eater does make it (the ability, not the crawler) quite a bit worse, as the crawler has 2x as many shooting attacks to melee ones (and they are otherwise identical).  That said, the ability was always just a nice bonus if you triggered it rather than something necessary to make good use of the crawler, and the change brings it more in line with the fluff for the vehicle, so I can't complain too much.  I think the venomcrawler is still a good cheap fast harrasser with decent firepower.

 

As for the helldrake, I've only fielded mine once (in 9th) but found that while its speed was nice, it really didn't have enough melee "oomph" to make a meaningful impact when it got there.  So far, I haven't seen anything in the rules that would change my opinion on that - so at 200-ish points it just doesn't do enough to justify the expense.  2 venomcrawlers cost only a bit more, and I would much rather have those.

 

Discolord seems to fall in the same boat - overpriced for what it does.  At its current point value, I feel you get more impact from a maulerfiend which is 25% cheaper.

Edited May 14 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

Just had to get this shot in of Vashtorr and the Warpsmith together.

[Volgon]

I like the color on Vashtorr's armor panels! Looks like verdigris. Is that blood or rust (both?) at the bottom of his tabard? Could we see a closer shot? Looks cool!

[Prot]

Thank you.

 

The tabard and feet are reflecting some of the heat... and there is some rust effect too. :)

 

I wanted to do Vashtorr in a very unique scheme. Such a great sculpt!

[Prot]

Well I had another game with the Soul Forged Engines Detachment. I am still using Vashtorr. Although not critical, he does add some kick to Venomcrawlers in particular.

 

This game in particular was not as good as my last game against an Ork Bully Boyz list. I was facing the Genestealer Cult and although the list was not top tier, uber competitive, it was strong, and had a lot of dynamic units. Genestealers with brood lord, a few smaller shooty vehicles, shooty 20 man blobs, and the good ol' beach thugs. (incredibly hard to get rid of.)

 

Inevitably I did win but the first few turns I as shocked how hard he hit from a distance... much more than Bully Boyz. And I found myself losing Daemon Engines, a lot quicker. Combine this with some really bad Dark Pact Tests and using the Addendum I failed twice and those REALLY hurt. I found I had every Daemon engine at less than half strength. 

 

He did come in with his bomb squad (Deep strike 3" but can't assault) and his sabatoge dude got rid of nearly all my Legionaries on the table. In the end what did my opponent in was his splitting of fire. I kept repairing stuff with my 2 Warsmiths. Maybe I should just take 3, but that means probably pulling Vashtorr. I've never taken three of the same HQ, but here I could see it.

 

If he hadn't of split fire I would have lost both Venom Crawlers for sure and the Defiler.  This not only kept me in the game for obvious reasons but also because it gave him very little room to deepstrike /resurrect his units. As a result my Primary score was far higher than his. At one point he made a final push with that beach thug (Aborrant?) squad and I kid you not, it took the full fire power of 2 Venomcrawlers, 1 Defiler and 1 Forgefiend, 2 Warsmiths AND Vashtorr's flame claw, AND Then I had to assault with Vashtorr to finally kill the squad. That squad is just.... viscous and superbly resilient. If he would have threatened me with that squad earlier I think he would have bullied me out of the center for the foreseeable remainder of the game.

 

Huge Moments:

- He deep strikes the Abhorents and fails a critical charge

- He deep strikes another assault squad and fails that charge.

(The above two actions just let me have points for 'free'.)

- He had this 20 man blob on a ruin that kept shooting the crap out of me and every time I would target it, he would use a 1CP strat that's like cloud of flies (can't shoot at him unless within 12"). The squad was a mix of mining lasers (lascannons) and a plethora of other firepower. I found it super annoying and kept nearly finishing off my Forgefiends. Well I deep strike a squad of Warp Talons in, make the 9" charge. get off Dark Pact Sustained, re roll all wounds... I get a lucky 20 (!) kills, wiping the squad and leaving a big hole in his backfield for future movement.

- Again his split fire was ultimately his issue.

- My Helbrute (I decided to put him back in the list). He did nothing all game with the Autocannon. He was giving the 'dual' aura to my Forgefiends but I kept track and it didn't do much. However I found I was getting charged with a vehicle and a big unit. My intent  was to 'block' with the Helbrute, but he almost died from the vehicle attacks, and then with 3 wounds left I Dark Pacted, failed the test, and exploded, killing myself, but not the vehicle... ugh. I dunno about the Helbrute. I just have no luck with him.

 

Anyway, the beginning of that game taught me the other side of Vashtorr's nasty contracts! Beware, you can start vaporizing your own stuff, and if it goes poorly enough, early in the game, you can find your opponent has a real easy time of it.

 

I'm thinking of pulling the Helbrute. The Venom Crawlers are good, not great, but Vashtorr helps a lot with them. At 110 points though, I still can't convince myself to take a third. The Defiler stays. He's a lot of fun now, and I have always warned all opponents.... he can charge through walls now ( 1CP) and interrupt for free!

 

 

[Brother Nathan]

this lines up fairly heavily with how i would expect this army to play. the risks of the pacts vs the rewards... 

re the hellbrute something i saw mentioned was to only bother with the cc version for this list to guard forgefiends. his shooting isnt impressive enough to risk multiple pacts but as a cc dread he can hit and is worth the key pacts with a melee loadout... and that he can mix weapons and get the boons and  have heavy flamer for when you really need makes him a good guard unit. i love autocannons but a single one isnt really gonna do much. just a thought to consider as i can see the logic, likely wont be as good in proactive. i did find that due to the fear of his boons he got targeted far earlier than his own risk would require so there is that to consider... wounds off him are ones saves off something you actually want to be staying alive... 

[Prot]

The idea of making the Helbrute close combat is tempting, but even then... I'd rather have the shots and the fist because I want him mostly for his dual aura around my pair of Forgefiends. 

 

I don't think there's anything terrible about him, it's just that in my games with him, I'm looking at just shifting the points to something that moves / scores better.