Light tank idea

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Corvus Corax Light/Scout Tank

 

M 12” T9 SV3+ W10 LD7+

 

turret autocannon or lascannon

 

hull mounted twin linked hvy stubbers (dorn style nipple guns)

 

pintle mounted heavy stubber 

HKM

 

<scout8>
 

what do y’all think? Does it stand out from sentinels and hellhound variants enough to be interesting?

 

heavily inspired by the M2 Stewart

[Tokugawa]

How dare a profile weaker than GSC armoured truck call itself a "tank"?

 

Hellhound is T10 2+. The bottomline of a chimera sized IG tank should be no worse than T10 3+.

 

And it need to have some real guns on its turret. Cheapest Leman Russ is 145pts. If shrink the chassis to T10 3+, then remove hull lascannon, then remove sponson guns, it already reach ~100pts, which is an usual cost of a "light tank".

[casb1965]

The only comparison I could think of is the Predator which is M 10" T10 Sv 3+ W 11 with a twin-linked lascannon, that's  130pts.

I can't see players using a light tank instead of a LR for the sake of 40pts or even 2 armoured sentinels.

I guess it would all come down to cost and firepower.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

How dare a profile weaker than GSC armoured truck call itself a "tank"?

 

Hellhound is T10 2+. The bottomline of a chimera sized IG tank should be no worse than T10 3+.

 

And it need to have some real guns on its turret. Cheapest Leman Russ is 145pts. If shrink the chassis to T10 3+, then remove hull lascannon, then remove sponson guns, it already reach ~100pts, which is a usual cost of a "light tank".

I think a better question is how dare a truck be T10. That seems a little bit ridiculous. M2 had 6mm-25mm of armor while the M4 Sherman had 12.7mm-178mm of armor, so I think T9 is a rather acceptable protection level of protection based on its inspiration.

2 hours ago, casb1965 said:

The only comparison I could think of is the Predator which is M 10" T10 Sv 3+ W 11 with a twin-linked lascannon, that's  130pts.

I can't see players using a light tank instead of a LR for the sake of 40pts or even 2 armoured sentinels.

I guess it would all come down to cost and firepower.

I’m sure plenty of people would use it if it had a good model. Might not see tournament play, but plenty of casual players would likely still use it.

rerolling wounds for a twin linked stubber wouldn’t be bad, and keep the weapon relatively usable against tough targets.

Edited May 16 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Bouargh]

For fast and or Light tanks, we already have the Carnaudon and the Salamander Scout vehicle. Both are Legends of course, but IMHO more than satisfying to fit into the role. I would not look further. And I would cross fingers for one of those to become part of 40k cannon...

But I am also crossing fingers for the Griffon mortar to make a full legit come back and... well, I am still waiting 

Edited May 16 by Bouargh

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

44 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

For fast and or Light tanks, we already have the Carnaudon and the Salamander Scout vehicle. Both are Legends of course, but IMHO more than satisfying to fit into the role. I would not look further. And I would cross fingers for one of those to become part of 40k cannon...

But I am also crossing fingers for the Griffon mortar to make a full legit come back and... well, I am still waiting 

The salamander is just uncreative trash.

 

ive never even heard of that other vehicle before, so can’t be too great.

[SteveAntilles]

How dare you bash my Salamanders! They're from the before times, when things were simpler... 

[Jolemai]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Corvus Corax Light/Scout Tank

• M 12” T9 SV3+ W10 LD7+
• turret autocannon or lascannon
• hull mounted twin linked hvy stubbers (dorn style nipple guns)
• pintle mounted heavy stubber 
• HKM
• <scout8>

what do y’all think? Does it stand out from sentinels and hellhound variants enough to be interesting?

 

heavily inspired by the M2 Stewart

 

Salamander Scout Tank

• M12, T8, Sv3+ W10 Ld7 OC3
• Autocannon, heavy bolter, armoured tracks
• Can add a hunter killer missile, heavy stubber/storm bolter
• Scouts 9", can arrive in opponents Deployment Zone from SR

Despite being almost identical to your suggestion, the bottom one is considered to be "uncreative trash". So why is your suggestion/improvement better?

 

The Carnodon isn't Legends yet, but is a FW vehicle (so likely to go when the Codex comes out, sadly)

• M12, T10, Sv2+ W12 Ld7 OC3
• 2 Autocannons, Carnodon twin autocannon, armoured tracks
• Can add a hunter killer missile,
• Turret can be switched out for a Carnodon twin lascannon, Carnodon twin multi-laser, volkite culverin
• Sponsons can be switched out for 2 heavy bolters/heavy flamers/lascannons/militarum multi-lasers/volkite calivers
• Re-rolls a Hit and Wound roll of 1 against units in the enemy deployment zone

Basically, imagine a Predator for the Imperial Guard.

[Dr. Clock]

There is (ancient) precedent for Guard to have Rhinos, so why not Predators?

 

Also: Chimedon (battle cannon) and Chimerax (quad autocannon) variants have precedence in assault roles.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 minutes ago, Jolemai said:

 

Salamander Scout Tank

• M12, T8, Sv3+ W10 Ld7 OC3
• Autocannon, heavy bolter, armoured tracks
• Can add a hunter killer missile, heavy stubber/storm bolter
• Scouts 9", can arrive in opponents Deployment Zone from SR

Despite being almost identical to your suggestion, the bottom one is considered to be "uncreative trash". So why is your suggestion/improvement better?

 

The Carnodon isn't Legends yet, but is a FW vehicle (so likely to go when the Codex comes out, sadly)

• M12, T10, Sv2+ W12 Ld7 OC3
• 2 Autocannons, Carnodon twin autocannon, armoured tracks
• Can add a hunter killer missile,
• Turret can be switched out for a Carnodon twin lascannon, Carnodon twin multi-laser, volkite culverin
• Sponsons can be switched out for 2 heavy bolters/heavy flamers/lascannons/militarum multi-lasers/volkite calivers
• Re-rolls a Hit and Wound roll of 1 against units in the enemy deployment zone

Basically, imagine a Predator for the Imperial Guard.

Yea the salamander is just an open topped chimera. 
it’s like the 40K el camino 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

How does one disagree with facts?

the salamander is just a chimera with the roof and turret removed making it a generally worse vehicle than the chimera.

[SteveAntilles]

A Chimera is troop transport IFV. The Salamander is an open topped Chimera chassis used as a scout or command tank. A Basilisk is a Chimera chassis with a gun on it. A Hellhound is a Chimera turned into a flame thrower tank.  

I was disagreeing with the El Camino part of your comment. The point is you're trying to fan make rules for a tank that already exists.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

11 minutes ago, SteveAntilles said:

A Chimera is troop transport IFV. The Salamander is an open topped Chimera chassis used as a scout or command tank. A Basilisk is a Chimera chassis with a gun on it. A Hellhound is a Chimera turned into a flame thrower tank.  

I was disagreeing with the El Camino part of your comment. The point is you're trying to fan make rules for a tank that already exists.

Yes, the salamander is just an open topped chimera.

*exists*
rules that have never been in any codex I’ve ever seen.

[Focslain]

23 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Yes, the salamander is just an open topped chimera.

*exists*
rules that have never been in any codex I’ve ever seen.

Page 57 of the Astra Militarium Legend document

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

39 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Page 57 of the Astra Militarium Legend document

That’s not a codex, especially these days, legends is generally just a precursor to being removed from the game completely when the next codex comes out.

Edited May 16 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[DemonGSides]

That's not what Legends is at all.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

But in the end, salamander doesn’t provide any option for a dedicated AT option. A massive flaw for something that’s supposed to be operating forward with limited support, and 6-12 stubber shots will deal with most infantry decently well, especially since you’ll be rerolling wounds on half of those shots.

 

and the carnodon is just a guard predator, not really a light tank…

Edited May 16 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[sairence]

 I don't think any vehicle approaching the tank-description has any business having a scout move, personally. That's just not a tank's role.

 

If you want a light tank profile with an anti-tank gun, the Hellhound with Meltacannon, aka the Devil Dog, is an existing option. You get the HK, the Stubber and your choice of HB, HF or MM in the hull. 

Edited May 16 by sairence

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

23 minutes ago, sairence said:

 I don't think any vehicle approaching the tank-description has any business having a scout move, personally. That's just not a tank's role.

 

If you want a light tank profile with an anti-tank gun, the Hellhound with Meltacannon, aka the Devil Dog, is an existing option. You get the HK, the Stubber and your choice of HB, HF or MM in the hull. 

Light Tanks have been scouting since like…the 1930s and almost imperial vehicles are based off of 30s-50s designs kinda mashed up…

see the M2/3 Stuarts I based these off of

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Stuart

Edited May 16 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also the claim that the carnodon is a light tank, doesn’t hold water per lexicanum.

 

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Carnodon_(Tank)

[sairence]

Based on its statline, the Carnodon is a smaller, lighter version of the statline of other tanks available. You can argue semantics all you like, but that's simply the gist of it. In the hierarchy of Guard tanks, with Hellhounds, Carnodons, Russes, Malcadors, Dorns, Baneblades etc etc the Carnodon is one of the lightest ones available.

 

Anyway...as to your question if that statline would be something interesting...no. it doesn't do anything that other things don't do better. If I want a scout, I have infantry or sentinels doing it cheaper. And if I want a tank, there's plenty of options with significantly more firepower. But I generally don't want those too close to the enemy, cause that just means thsy get charged quicker.

 

And this thing doesn't have more primary dakka than a Sentinel anyway.  so why would you pay for a more expensive Sentinel that, as a tank, is probably more awkward to move around terrain?

[casb1965]

There are light tanks out there for Guard armies in the Siegfried and Scylla, neither have rules but are both considered alternatives to the armoured sentinel.

The Hellhound, Devil Dog and Bane Wolf, although based on the Chimera chassis, are considered to be light tanks.

 

[AutumnEffect]

14 minutes ago, casb1965 said:

There are light tanks out there for Guard armies in the Siegfried and Scylla, neither have rules but are both considered alternatives to the armoured sentinel.

The Hellhound, Devil Dog and Bane Wolf, although based on the Chimera chassis, are considered to be light tanks.

 

 

Scylla is a good shout. Just look at the cute little guy.

[casb1965]

10 hours ago, sairence said:

 I don't think any vehicle approaching the tank-description has any business having a scout move, personally. That's just not a tank's role.

 

If you want a light tank profile with an anti-tank gun, the Hellhound with Meltacannon, aka the Devil Dog, is an existing option. You get the HK, the Stubber and your choice of HB, HF or MM in the hull. 

 

Sherman, Stuart, Covenanter to name a few all served as Reconnaissance tanks during WW2 so no reason why the AM wouldn't do the same.

That does lead us back to the Salamander which is exactly what the AM call a reconnaissance vehicle. 

[crimsondave]

The Salamander has been legends since 8th edition and it still has a legends data sheet.  I don’t think it’s going anywhere or it would already be gone.