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Kasrkin and scions


Inquisitor_Lensoven

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To me the Kasrkin feel a bit underwhelming. I haven’t proxied them as scions yet but I imagine they’d feel similar as well.

 

changes that I think could or should be made.

 

scions should get either a 5++ or a 6+++ to make them a bit more survivable than they currently are.

 

kasrkin, I feel should be able to be built out as a unit of specialists. So 3-4 special weapons, maybe even doubling up on a single type as an option.

recon option drops the scout move for infiltrate, and a single special weapon, and up 3 marksmen.

storm trooper/assault troopers option all pistols and power weapons, WS3+ sgt getting the option of plasma, bolt, hotshot pistols or handflamer.

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1 hour ago, Kleomenes said:

Scions do insane damage right now. They are only marginally tougher than regular humans but that seems appropriate. They can get a 6+++ from a medic in a command squad. What would be the lore reason for a 5+ invul?

Doesn’t really need a lore reason, fluff and crunch are completely unrelated.

 

lasguns in lore are actually pretty damn strong, but on table top they only have a 50-50 chance of actual wounding a baseline human.

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Scions are great amazing currently Between the giant bomb with a psyker coming out of a Taurox or nasty  hammers/secondary scorers out of deepstrike, they have great second strike utility. I always have at least a 5 man squad, and many lists will include big damage dealers.

 

Kasrkin on the other hand aren't as damaging, but between their scout move and their order shenangins, they are amazing skirmishers with utility like nothing else. I still bring min 2 units every game because they can simply do so much for mobility and scoring, even after their points hike. The damage is often just an added bonus.

 

Like...personally, I don't think either of them needs changes. I'd like Kasrkin to drop 10p again, the 20p hike was a bit harsh. But other than that...genuinely two of the best datasheets in the index atm. 

 

As for loadout changes...doubt they'll make changes to the existing kits, so they are what they are.

 

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On 6/11/2024 at 1:22 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

To me the Kasrkin feel a bit underwhelming.

Same, I wouldn't consider kasrkin atm, 

 

The value of plasma and melta has diminished in the new edition with the toughness hikes. 

 

They would have to get a decent pts drop to interest me. 

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3 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Same, I wouldn't consider kasrkin atm, 

 

The value of plasma and melta has diminished in the new edition with the toughness hikes. 

 

They would have to get a decent pts drop to interest me. 

I think if they could spam special weapons a bit more, it wouldn’t be bad. 3 meltas are likely to do something decent to medium and heavy armor.

 

also for being such elite soldiers it feels wrong for them to have the same likelihood of hitting as standard guardsmen. Heck arguable that Catachans as a whole are better in melee than their super elite comrades.

Edited by Inquisitor_Lensoven
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8 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Same, I wouldn't consider kasrkin atm, 

 

The value of plasma and melta has diminished in the new edition with the toughness hikes. 

 

They would have to get a decent pts drop to interest me. 

 

They were super meta, basically being a required 3 of, for most of the first year in 10th.

Melta is still insanely good (Ap-4 is like, *chefs kiss* especially against big boys like Custodes, a former meta boogeyman before their recent codex), I will agree Plasma sucks, but they have rapid fire plasma so it's still pretty good if you can get them FRFSRF.

They got a points increase recently and people still like em enough to run em, though they've fallen off in favor of action monkeys in 5 man scions and Rough Riders.  I think a 10 point drop would be a sweeter spot, for sure, as mentioned above, but I do think they are Quite Fine for their points cost.

5 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I think if they could spam special weapons a bit more, it wouldn’t be bad. 3 meltas are likely to do something decent to medium and heavy armor.

 

also for being such elite soldiers it feels wrong for them to have the same likelihood of hitting as standard guardsmen. Heck arguable that Catachans as a whole are better in melee than their super elite comrades.


They can get 4 special weapons, a special mine that does 2d3 almost guaranteed damage to something they can probably run up into, as well as a sgt with a specialist pistol, AND they can take a sniper rifle on top.  So 7 out of 10 guys in the squad have some sort of extra damage; Devastators don't even get to claim that many bodies in a squad.  Any more and they'd just be a heavy weapons squad.

 

They shoot better than a guardsman, and you really aren't supposed to be putting any regular human infantry into melee combat.   And Kas are pulling twice as many attacks as Cat, as well as getting a Sgt weapon (Powersword in the Kas situation).

Not even really comparable.  I'd rather have twice as many shots at S3 than S4; it slightly helps in melee against SM level armor at S4, and I will admit -1 AP is nice, I think it, at best, washes with the Kas, but I'm pretty sure that -1AP is not equal to +1 Attack.  Either way, whatever is hitting either unit back in melee is most likely going to eat them for breakfast lunch and dinner, so it's not great either way.

Edited by DemonGSides
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2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

They were super meta, basically being a required 3 of, for most of the first year in 10th.

Melta is still insanely good (Ap-4 is like, *chefs kiss* especially against big boys like Custodes, a former meta boogeyman before their recent codex), I will agree Plasma sucks, but they have rapid fire plasma so it's still pretty good if you can get them FRFSRF.

They got a points increase recently and people still like em enough to run em, though they've fallen off in favor of action monkeys in 5 man scions and Rough Riders.  I think a 10 point drop would be a sweeter spot, for sure, as mentioned above, but I do think they are Quite Fine for their points cost.


They can get 4 special weapons, a special mine that does 2d3 almost guaranteed damage to something they can probably run up into, as well as a sgt with a specialist pistol, AND they can take a sniper rifle on top.  So 7 out of 10 guys in the squad have some sort of extra damage; Devastators don't even get to claim that many bodies in a squad.  Any more and they'd just be a heavy weapons squad.

 

They shoot better than a guardsman, and you really aren't supposed to be putting any regular human infantry into melee combat.   And Kas are pulling twice as many attacks as Cat, as well as getting a Sgt weapon (Powersword in the Kas situation).

Not even really comparable.  I'd rather have twice as many shots at S3 than S4; it slightly helps in melee against SM level armor at S4, and I will admit -1 AP is nice, I think it, at best, washes with the Kas, but I'm pretty sure that -1AP is not equal to +1 Attack.  Either way, whatever is hitting either unit back in melee is most likely going to eat them for breakfast lunch and dinner, so it's not great either way.

I forget about that since I only have one of the old metal squads.

yeah maybe mine would be doing more work with double the special weapons.

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