Horus Heresy Exemplary Battles - The Assault on Castrum Velx (ft. Sanginuary Guard)

[Nagashsnee]

10 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

I suspect the reason SA and Mech haven't received anything (sans the Daemon Engines) is because releasing an Exemplary Battle mid-plastification could cause issues if the articles make the 'suggestion conversions' out of date very quickly. That, and most of both ranges are still in resin instead of plastic. A lot of people will just throw up their arms and go "well I'm not wasting money on a conversion for resin models, are GW stupid?"

 

Marines have the advantage of fifty thousand different kits that won't be going away anytime soon.

I kinda get your point, but skitarii exist in 30k, they exist in the lore, in the art, in the books and even in the game in some form (Secutarii), Knights and Armigers are plastic.  Custodes and SoS are plastic.  Lack of plastic is a very very lazy excuse and its not even true, they could literally put out skitarii with plastic heads from another kit and make up some lore why X forge world has Y type of skitarii that get Z special rule. They could release custodes with floral patern armor and give us rules for the Palace garden guard.  SoS with white lion axes i dont know the options for the studio are near endless. 

 

Again i say the whole point (as i understand it) of these articles is to get creative and offer alternatives based on existing miniatures to spice up the game and give the factions something new.  And the only real excuse for some not getting it is either laziness or them not caring enough. 

 

Cause taking the arms off the 40k skitarii dog riders and giving rules for a skitarii pistol unit on foot and some lore for it would take less then a day. And thats just the first thing i saw when i googled 'skitarii conversions'.  

 

 

[Bung]

2 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

I kinda get your point, but skitarii exist in 30k, they exist in the lore, in the art, in the books and even in the game in some form (Secutarii), Knights and Armigers are plastic.  Custodes and SoS are plastic.  Lack of plastic is a very very lazy excuse and its not even true, they could literally put out skitarii with plastic heads from another kit and make up some lore why X forge world has Y type of skitarii that get Z special rule. They could release custodes with floral patern armor and give us rules for the Palace garden guard.  SoS with white lion axes i dont know the options for the studio are near endless. 

 

Again i say the whole point (as i understand it) of these articles is to get creative and offer alternatives based on existing miniatures to spice up the game and give the factions something new.  And the only real excuse for some not getting it is either laziness or them not caring enough. 

 

Cause taking the arms off the 40k skitarii dog riders and giving rules for a skitarii pistol unit on foot and some lore for it would take less then a day. And thats just the first thing i saw when i googled 'skitarii conversions'.  

 

 

 

Then tell me, what would you do with the following Limits:

You are only allowed to use stuff sold in the AoD Section of the GW Website.

No 40k Kits, No extra plastic sprues and no extra FW bits.

 

[Nagashsnee]

1 hour ago, Bung said:

 

Then tell me, what would you do with the following Limits:

You are only allowed to use stuff sold in the AoD Section of the GW Website.

No 40k Kits, No extra plastic sprues and no extra FW bits.

 

SA is the easy one, named regiment with unique regimental rules . Otherwise normal lasrifle section where the gun has been reduced in length (easy enough to do) and a special rule that these guys have rapid fire at reduced range.  Call it something like 'clearance sections' and say its for cases where special weapon squads are not available or their ammo cannot be supported in long term conflicts on the fringes of the war.  Resin or plastic the conversion is simple to do and conveys the message of less range more fire. A sawed off rifle if you will.  Otherwise specific paint job and regimental fluff that conveyed rules on certain units of your choice (whatever the company wants to push). 

 

Knight wise i love the big rocket pods on knights and would love to see them jury rigged on armigers, so that, make the guns one use only and explain it as a force of armiger that was guarding ammo deppo had to face a large number of armored/flyers and thus in desperation the carapace weapons for knights that were storred there were made to work on the armiger chasis.   Or have some of the moirax weapon available to non mechanicum armigers (as the guns are sold separately) and explain it as desperate measures from a knight household, give the guns get hot to represent them not being 100% on the know of how these are suppose to work on the armor.  Maybe have them be traitor aligned and have to fight of the loyalists Mech coming to stop this tech heresy.

 

Custodes i  will say again, model wise no real need for anything, make a cool story for a chamber, make up a colour scheme, and then just give them some rules.  Tho my dream is mix squad of custodes and sisters to show how they fight in the books, 2-5 sisters 2-5 custodes. Tho rules wise this may be tricky.  It easy to do, fluffy as heck and something that gets talked about ALLOT in the lore. They fight together and support eachother in combat. 

 

Mechanicum i am going to go real crazy here and just say this, tech thralls with arms from the secutarii upgrade kits. What does a titan legio do when it runs out of secutarii? Far from support? Unable to get fresh crucial infantry support? It makes do. Resin tech thralls come with bodies and arms separate, and the upgrade kit is just heads and arms. Spear and shield should be doable without almost any actual work needed.  The guns maybe not i have never tried. Tell me its not a match made in heaven? 

 

The options are THERE, the tools are there, what is lacking is the WILL.  Its the same issue that had the game release without the majority of armies from first edition being able to play for months and months. Second edition has taken the HH hype fixation on marines to new and in my view detrimental heights.  

[Gamiel]

14 hours ago, lansalt said:

The featured kitbashes are questionable to put it midly,

How so?

 

9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

the unit looks so far from how its described and previously depicted

Can you give examples of those previous depictions to us that don't have that available?

 

8 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Angel tears look way more artificed, as do the the ofanim conversions

Where can those conversions be found? 

[corvus.calvariam]

36 minutes ago, Gamiel said:

How so?

 

Can you give examples of those previous depictions to us that don't have that available?

 

Where can those conversions be found? 

 

 

They have been described in the novels as being basically similar in appearance to their 40k incarnation, and have also been depicted in official art the same way.

 

Some quotes regarding their wargear;

 

Quote

“Sanguinius shook silvery, metallic blood off his blade and threw a nod to his honour host. Each of them looked back at him with the mirror of the primarch’s own aspect, their helmets sculpted into a noble ideal of his face. ‘First blood, Azkaellon,’ he said, addressing his words to the Commander of the Guard.”

 

 

Excerpt From

Fear to Tread

James Swallow

 

 

“One of the gate guards singled him out of the teeming tide of humanity. The golden Blood Angel striding towards him wore a great winged jump pack, the iron pinions of which went some way to clearing space around the warrior. The purposeful stride and scale of the man did the rest.

 

‘Arkhan Land,’ the Blood Angel said. ‘Hold here.’ 

 

His helm was a death-mask of Terran antiquity, marked with red tears: rubies, fused to the golden cheek. His chest-plate was sculpted into a muscled reflection of masculine perfection, cast in the same gold as the rest of his armour. On any other world, the warrior would resemble a king. On Terra, among the Blood Angels elite, he was just a warrior.”

 

 

Excerpt From

Bringer of Sorrow

Aaron Dembski-Bowden

 

 

Edited June 12 by corvus.calvariam

[Nova_Dew]

    I think the only reason the BA's got this was because it's cut content from Beta-Garmon, Clash Atop the Ghal-Zammand, playing with the forces that were there by the book, really needed the Sang Guard in the book or in a prior book to make sense.

 

    The name dropping of one, maybe two bound Auxilia Cohorts in the text of Castrum Velx is nice and does link it to Beta-Garmon's Aux rules and the new Consuls.

 

    Rules wise for the Sang Guard, not keen on them being Jump pack only, but it doesn't say they can only join a character with a jump pack, kind of like the idea of 5-10 of them being told to guard a guy in Cataphractii and just hating it. The Burning Ones rules kinda work from a lore perspective, the more Sang gets hurt the more they abandon the pretense of being BA's and revert to being Revenant Legion, the unit blurb even gives a little throwback to the Revenant Legion IMO, "No matter the danger [sic], no matter the cost"

 

    Financially i think this unit is going to be a big win for home recasting and independent sculpting companies, considering there's only four perdition weapons in the Armoury kit.

[Petitioner's City]

I am surprised any staff in Nottingham didn't convert from the other 30k models, but grr, these restrictions are silly if true.

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, Nova_Dew said:

    I think the only reason the BA's got this was because it's cut content from Beta-Garmon, Clash Atop the Ghal-Zammand, playing with the forces that were there by the book, really needed the Sang Guard in the book or in a prior book to make sense.

 

 

I doubt it was cut-content. While 30k isn't as strict on 'no models no rules' everything new they've added has been receiving models or been unLegends'ed. Exemplary Battles has generally always been the place for things that won't be receiving a model, but they want to give rules to. 

 

Plus isn't Ghal-Zaamad between Jaghantai and Horus? Sanginius is referenced but barely in the campaign book fluff.

 

Edited June 12 by Lord Marshal

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Gamiel said:

Where can those conversions be found? 

 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/17/unstoppable-iron-hands-meet-immovable-blood-angels-in-the-final-exemplary-battles-download-for-warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

 

Edit: reading through the article they mention Cultists of the Primordial Annihilator as a sub ally, similar to daemons. In the bound daemons article they also talk about cultists and daemons engines (distinct from where they talk about militia). And in the ruinstorm list article, they mention there's one more article to reveal a last new option (they never published another one).

 

Rip chaos cultists and 30k time frames lol.

Edited June 12 by SkimaskMohawk

[Gamiel]

9 hours ago, corvus.calvariam said:

 

Beside the wings on the Guard in the first picture would I say that the articles figures are more or less the same to the ones illustrated, both are seemingly standard armour in gold, with jetpacks and nonstandard helmets.

 

Agree that the text examples do describe them more like their 40k version.

Edited June 12 by Gamiel

[Bung]

4 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

SA is the easy one, named regiment with unique regimental rules . Otherwise normal lasrifle section where the gun has been reduced in length (easy enough to do) and a special rule that these guys have rapid fire at reduced range.  Call it something like 'clearance sections' and say its for cases where special weapon squads are not available or their ammo cannot be supported in long term conflicts on the fringes of the war.  Resin or plastic the conversion is simple to do and conveys the message of less range more fire. A sawed off rifle if you will.  Otherwise specific paint job and regimental fluff that conveyed rules on certain units of your choice (whatever the company wants to push). 

 

Knight wise i love the big rocket pods on knights and would love to see them jury rigged on armigers, so that, make the guns one use only and explain it as a force of armiger that was guarding ammo deppo had to face a large number of armored/flyers and thus in desperation the carapace weapons for knights that were storred there were made to work on the armiger chasis.   Or have some of the moirax weapon available to non mechanicum armigers (as the guns are sold separately) and explain it as desperate measures from a knight household, give the guns get hot to represent them not being 100% on the know of how these are suppose to work on the armor.  Maybe have them be traitor aligned and have to fight of the loyalists Mech coming to stop this tech heresy.

 

Custodes i  will say again, model wise no real need for anything, make a cool story for a chamber, make up a colour scheme, and then just give them some rules.  Tho my dream is mix squad of custodes and sisters to show how they fight in the books, 2-5 sisters 2-5 custodes. Tho rules wise this may be tricky.  It easy to do, fluffy as heck and something that gets talked about ALLOT in the lore. They fight together and support eachother in combat. 

 

Mechanicum i am going to go real crazy here and just say this, tech thralls with arms from the secutarii upgrade kits. What does a titan legio do when it runs out of secutarii? Far from support? Unable to get fresh crucial infantry support? It makes do. Resin tech thralls come with bodies and arms separate, and the upgrade kit is just heads and arms. Spear and shield should be doable without almost any actual work needed.  The guns maybe not i have never tried. Tell me its not a match made in heaven? 

 

The options are THERE, the tools are there, what is lacking is the WILL.  Its the same issue that had the game release without the majority of armies from first edition being able to play for months and months. Second edition has taken the HH hype fixation on marines to new and in my view detrimental heights.  

 

Then you still dont get the hard Rules for this Units.

Non of them have actually Bits altered, th y are all Out of the Box glued together and only sold as 30k Bits.

 

For SA, you have "named" Regiments.

18 exactly, all in the last Expansion Book.

 

Its not about willing,its about Management telling everyone: No Cross Game Sales.

 

And for Custodes, i havent seen anyone willing to play against them after the first Game.

So why do something, noone is going to use?

 

[Nagashsnee]

55 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

Then you still dont get the hard Rules for this Units.

Non of them have actually Bits altered, th y are all Out of the Box glued together and only sold as 30k Bits.

 

For SA, you have "named" Regiments.

18 exactly, all in the last Expansion Book.

 

Its not about willing,its about Management telling everyone: No Cross Game Sales.

 

And for Custodes, i havent seen anyone willing to play against them after the first Game.

So why do something, noone is going to use?

 

 

You keep bringing up cross game sales, like militia or daemons dont exist in this game, like making secutarii doesnt REQUIRE cross game sales. My man, the Imperialis Militia list includes the following 'The Citadel Miniatures and Forge World ranges offer a multitude of options from which you can construct your army, combining parts to create your own personalised force; further tailoring and conversion potential can be achieved through the Provenance system, as described on page 9. The sole caveat is to ensure that all models are clearly equipped with the weapons and relevant Wargear stated on their profile; for more complex conversions, always inform your opponent before the battle, so both players are clear. Apart from that, the only real limitation with Imperialis Militia is your own imagination.' .

 

So you bringing it up constantly is just false, they are trying to mitigate and minimize the need this is true, but trying to make it out as its a red line that cannot be crossed is simply 100% false. That militia list is pretty recent too as is the article of this very series with the militia units, you know the ones, that never even got a picture or example, so its 100% up to the players. 

 

Speaking of things that are totally not cross sales, deamons! What can i field for them? GW? 'Given the mercurial nature of the Warp and the creatures that dwelled within it, no two Daemons armies look alike. While a range of models from the Citadel Miniatures and Forge World ranges offer a multitude of options for daemon models, you can also combine parts from any number of kits to create your own personalised force. The Ætheric Dominions allow further tailoring of your force. The sole caveat is to ensure that your opponent is informed before the battle as to what each model represents and any upgrades it might have, so both players are clear'.

 

Heck cross sales AND mix and maxing non 30k bits? So no, i utterly reject your position of must be AOD and no cross sales. And while marines are blessed with enough kits and parts to make conversions so easy there is little need to do so, and i have no doubt they always try to push existing AoD kits when able, these are more guidelines then rules, i know because my rule books tell me show.  And for the record all the examples given were 100% AOD.

 

Moving on to the SA , yes a named regiment, something to keep people going and excited until the book gives them different flavors of the same thing, you know like Legion Marine Units? Saying eventually a black book came out that had similar stuff invalidates pretty much any unit they ever put out in these articles.  These are meant to keep people active and happy until they can buy another black book. 

 

Your custodes comment, honestly its such a bad faith argument its beyond parody. 'The army is op so no one i know will play against it'....and? My local meta have no Salamander player should they get canned too? If anything they could use the article to introduce a balanced new unit that people can use guilt free. 

 

I am not going to derail this thread any further, if you want start a thread on this subject and i will happily keep going.  But for real, saying it was impossible or even hard to put out some units for everyone is silly, they choose not too, and i honestly cant think of a good reason to skip the 2-3 factions that got left out before round 2. 

 

Edited June 12 by Nagashsnee

[Gamiel]

4 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

You keep bringing up cross game sales, like militia or daemons dont exist in this game, like making secutarii doesnt REQUIRE cross game sales. My man, the Imperialis Militia list includes the following 'The Citadel Miniatures and Forge World ranges offer a multitude of options from which you can construct your army, combining parts to create your own personalised force; further tailoring and conversion potential can be achieved through the Provenance system, as described on page 9. The sole caveat is to ensure that all models are clearly equipped with the weapons and relevant Wargear stated on their profile; for more complex conversions, always inform your opponent before the battle, so both players are clear. Apart from that, the only real limitation with Imperialis Militia is your own imagination.' .

And the WarCom article linking to the list was illustrated with kitbashed forces using bits from 40k, Necromunda and AoS:

The Imperialis Militia Joins the Horus Heresy in a New Exemplary Battles Download - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com) 

[Bung]

4 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

You keep bringing up cross game sales, like militia or daemons dont exist in this game, like making secutarii doesnt REQUIRE cross game sales. My man, the Imperialis Militia list includes the following 'The Citadel Miniatures and Forge World ranges offer a multitude of options from which you can construct your army, combining parts to create your own personalised force; further tailoring and conversion potential can be achieved through the Provenance system, as described on page 9. The sole caveat is to ensure that all models are clearly equipped with the weapons and relevant Wargear stated on their profile; for more complex conversions, always inform your opponent before the battle, so both players are clear. Apart from that, the only real limitation with Imperialis Militia is your own imagination.' .

 

So you bringing it up constantly is just false, they are trying to mitigate and minimize the need this is true, but trying to make it out as its a red line that cannot be crossed is simply 100% false. That militia list is pretty recent too as is the article of this very series with the militia units, you know the ones, that never even got a picture or example, so its 100% up to the players. 

 

Speaking of things that are totally not cross sales, deamons! What can i field for them? GW? 'Given the mercurial nature of the Warp and the creatures that dwelled within it, no two Daemons armies look alike. While a range of models from the Citadel Miniatures and Forge World ranges offer a multitude of options for daemon models, you can also combine parts from any number of kits to create your own personalised force. The Ætheric Dominions allow further tailoring of your force. The sole caveat is to ensure that your opponent is informed before the battle as to what each model represents and any upgrades it might have, so both players are clear'.

 

Heck cross sales AND mix and maxing non 30k bits? So no, i utterly reject your position of must be AOD and no cross sales. And while marines are blessed with enough kits and parts to make conversions so easy there is little need to do so, and i have no doubt they always try to push existing AoD kits when able, these are more guidelines then rules, i know because my rule books tell me show.  And for the record all the examples given were 100% AOD.

 

Moving on to the SA , yes a named regiment, something to keep people going and excited until the book gives them different flavors of the same thing, you know like Legion Marine Units? Saying eventually a black book came out that had similar stuff invalidates pretty much any unit they ever put out in these articles.  These are meant to keep people active and happy until they can buy another black book. 

 

Your custodes comment, honestly its such a bad faith argument its beyond parody. 'The army is op so no one i know will play against it'....and? My local meta have no Salamander player should they get canned too? If anything they could use the article to introduce a balanced new unit that people can use guilt free. 

 

I am not going to derail this thread any further, if you want start a thread on this subject and i will happily keep going.  But for real, saying it was impossible or even hard to put out some units for everyone is silly, they choose not too, and i honestly cant think of a good reason to skip the 2-3 factions that got left out before round 2. 

 

Ah yes, the 2 niche armies GW doesnt really care about cause they can be done with third party models for less then 1/3 of GW Money.

Armies they will never really care about and only got mediocore rules to not upset the fanbase.

 

I put it blunt so you people May understand it better.

Sure GW can do this stuff.

But they wont do it cause they ones writting the paychecks dont want it.

 

Of you want Rules for such stuff, write it yourself shouldnt be a problem if you play with Friends.

[Blindhamster]

6 hours ago, Gamiel said:

Beside the wings on the Guard in the first picture would I say that the articles figures are more or less the same to the ones illustrated, both are seemingly standard armour in gold, with jetpacks and nonstandard helmets.

 

legs are different to standard heresy marines too, they match quite closely to the 40k design with the sort of ridge bit in the middle, only difference to 40k legs is they have the shield shape knee design (also seen on the azkaellon art too). And the second image with the close up clearly has sculpted abdomenal muscles too.

[Noserenda]

Yeah its beautifully (Snort) Artificed armour suitable for the Legions elite of the elite in a Legion with a distinct favour for the Aesthetic. Its not like theyd be seen dead in off the peg mk6 :P 

[Marshal Rohr]

Why would they show models converted from a kit that will gone forever in four weeks? 

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Why would they show models converted from a kit that will gone forever in four weeks? 

I mean the obvious reason would be to a) faithfully represent the thing and b) Sell more of the kit. 

Got a source on it being OOP in 4 weeks? Because if we got a solid leak on a Blood Angel date ive missed it.

[Waaagh?]

3 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I mean the obvious reason would be to a) faithfully represent the thing and b) Sell more of the kit. 

Got a source on it being OOP in 4 weeks? Because if we got a solid leak on a Blood Angel date ive missed it.

 

Whilst I'm not sure it will be gone in four weeks its likely that it is a kit on its way out and they don't want to promote the use of something people won't be able to get shortly. Obviously we don't know what's coming out and when but GW do.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Why not use angels tears as a base?

 

They're solidly bulky models despite being in mk4, and fit in on the new scale. They got blood angel filigree on the legs. They got sculpted muscle chest plates. They even have mk4 jump packs (you know, the ones the sang guard originated).

 

After shaving some destroyer symbols (very easy) you only have to do a head and arm swap, and that's what's already happened on the other kits.

[Gamiel]

18 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

And the second image with the close up clearly has sculpted abdomenal muscles too.

Will have to disagree, since it's not clear to me.

[Sky Potato]

Big fan of the exemplary battles returning. VERY big fan of being able to field Sanguinary Guard to actually… guard… Sanguinius - It’s about time!

 

I’ll be using the existing 40k kit though. As others have pointed out, the Sanguinary guard are basically unchanged from 30k to 40k, in both the artwork of the heresy and the descriptions in the books.

 

This has prompted me to snatch up another two boxes of Sanguinary Guard however. The most recent Blood Angels codex I have has numbers of the Sanguinary Guard at 25. I’ve already got 15, I might as well ensure I’ve got the full cohort of them before GW pulls the OG kit and primaris-ifies them.

[Xenith]

4 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Why not use angels tears as a base?

 

 

Probably cost. Agree they would be a better base. 

[No Foes Remain]

Why not use the Dawnbreaker Cohort? The side jets on the jump pack are separate (something I did not know) so with some maybe fancier helmets or shoulderpads they'd be a great stand in with a gold paint job.

[SkimaskMohawk]

5 hours ago, Xenith said:

 

Probably cost. Agree they would be a better base. 

 

I mean, ya they're expensive. But, the morlocks used the more expensive gorgons as a base in the very last marine exemplary battle article; historically they've used both premium and basic kits to make their units. See contekar for atrementar, tyrants for dominators, and all the resin power armour like the numerologists and destroyers.