[BC] The Blackest Heart (OOC)

[Xin Ceithan]

That’s  quite fine … Rakash will skip the hard test as I don’t think he’ll indeed not to find something of that magnitude on the Avenger, though he is certainly going to look into everything else he can dig up on Delphynia 

 

 Also,  his INT  isn’t that extraordinary that he’ll attempt to look at forbidden texts during Warp transit ( but high enough to see that it doesn’t seem like. A good idea  ).

 

So, with INT 40  coming from the top of the list, it’s straight failure  on the first test ( + 10: roll 64 -fail )  a bare pass on the other two test ( roll of 37 and 21, respectively) - unless of course you rule / meant that if the first test is failed, there’s not enough to follow up and Rakash just wastes his time wandering  the ship meeting aficionados of dubious literature…

[A.T.]

Supply / salvage question - what is the supply cost of upgrading poor quality armour to standard quality?

[Mazer Rackham]

 

So, with INT 40  coming from the top of the list, it’s straight failure  on the first test ( + 10: roll 64 -fail )  a bare pass on the other two test ( roll of 37 and 21, respectively) - unless of course you rule / meant that if the first test is failed, there’s not enough to follow up and Rakash just wastes his time wandering  the ship meeting aficionados of dubious literature…

 

This should really be done IC, buuuut - If you fail one of the tests it does not preclude you attempting the others, however, the sources are perhaps hyperbolic, illegible, or cannot be cross-referenced for veracity. The more you fail, you basically go down a lore rabbit hole.

 

Which is right up your alley, neh? 

 

 

Supply / salvage question - what is the supply cost of upgrading poor quality armour to standard quality?

 

5 Supplies unless it's got wierdo components. If it's upgrading ragged flak armour with extra padding and stitches, leather panels or a steel plate for example. No tests are required for this.

[Lysimachus]

Idle curiosity at this point (I think?) but how will this work for weapon upgrades?

 

I eventually want to give Hagga's power sword the Storm Field upgrade (extra Dam/Pen representing that it's a honking BIG sword), but I was imagining that this might be something to work towards...?

[A.T.]

 

5 Supplies unless it's got wierdo components. If it's upgrading ragged flak armour with extra padding and stitches, leather panels or a steel plate for example. No tests are required for this.

 

Just generic mortal carapace, in part to fit with the armour-monger talent the character has.

 

Another thousand or so xp and Xerxes can pick up master enginseer, though I think I might pick up medicae in the short term to cover any bionic-replacement requirements.

Edited September 2 by A.T.

[Mazer Rackham]

Legion Power Sword is Extremely rare, so upgrade adds one level...to Near Unique. You need an equivalent amount of components to upgrade it.

 

You got two kidneys, right?

 

 

 

Just generic mortal carapace, in part to fit with the armour-monger talent the character has.

 

Another thousand or so xp and Xerxes can pick up master enginseer, though I think I might pick up medicae in the short term to cover any bionic-replacement requirements.

 

No worries, that's 5 Supplies, dead. I recalled you had the Talent, so, no test needed for your own kit.

 

Edited September 2 by Mazer Rackham

[Lysimachus]

 

Legion Power Sword is Extremely rare, so upgrade adds one level...to Near Unique. You need an equivalent amount of components to upgrade it.

 

You got two kidneys, right?

 

Thought it would be something like that... and in this game it's another level on top, right? But how does that work with him already having the sword itself as part of his standard Champion gear...?

 

And what amount of components is equivalent? Is this the Supplies cost?

 

 

 

 

Back at character creation, I was borderline considering asking if he could straight swap his initial gear of a power sword with a power axe (same Rarity level and again, extra Dam/Pen but Unbalanced rather than Balanced profile representing that it's a big, heavy claymore)

 

...but I wasn't sure I wanted that nasty -10 to Parry instead of a lovely +10! 

Edited September 2 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

Hated double post, but I thought another insight as to why I've introduced crafting - part of the gameplay loop of an open world/sandbox is gathering allies and stuff to try and build what you can't steal or otherwise obtain via Infamy Rolls - because you're going to fail them quite frequently.

 

Crafting/scavenging encourages you to forage and keeps more interest in the game, because you're working towards those Utterly Unique Items like Anti-Gravity underpants with the Lord Macragge print over them, and full Cato Sicarius body pillow.

 

Besides, when you craft kit, it's literally yours and adds to the experience. It also adds to the in-fighting and friction loops. By restricting access to the salvage (ie non-recurring loot drops) it starts making you wonder: 'Hmm, should I have slaves buld me a pyramid, or maybe it would be wise to mount a gun on my star cruiser..?'

 

Only to find another of your pals has just bought a very expensive vibrating armchair and upgraded it with a Imperium Class Terraflix package.

 

EDIT: Got ninja'd a bit. Have a look at the rewards Post above for the different types of 'Salvage'.

 

Edited September 2 by Mazer Rackham

[Necronaut]

@Mazer Rackham as the game develops, do you have any plans to implement any of the Legacy Weapon rules from the Tome of Blood, or is your intent to keep this a vanilla Black Crusade experience barring your house rules?

 

[Mazer Rackham]

 

@Mazer Rackham as the game develops, do you have any plans to implement any of the Legacy Weapon rules from the Tome of Blood, or is your intent to keep this a vanilla Black Crusade experience barring your house rules?

 

I'd have to look into this. To be fair, I would prefer a game as close to vanilla as possible with the bolt-ons to keep things going, but something like that looks a late-game weapon, so it's possible we'll be off the rails altogether by then, so it won't matter and I will look at it then.

 

Although Xin wants a TPK within four hours, so...

[Lysimachus]

Hmm, ok re-read that.

 

So the components bit is based on Item Quality, not Rarity.

 

So because his sword is standard Common Quality, it's 10 Components needed?

 

But I would still need to make an Acquisition test, which would be the hard bit as its Rarity is:

 

Power Sword: Extremely Rare

+1 for Upgrade = Near Unique

+1 for this game = Unique.

 

...but that is the Rarity/Acquisition target if it were a totally new item, isn't it?

 

Does the fact that he already has the sword itself as part of his stuff not bring that Rarity back down any?

 

Sorry, I'm not at all familiar with the way BC works this stuff... 

 

 

[Necronaut]

That's absolutely fine. I find myself going back and forth as to whether the RAW for Legacy Weapons is just too much kludged onto a system that already sort of rewards power-gaming. I think it could work alright as a late-game reward, or alternatively if the number of add-ons a weapon could gain was reduced, sort of making them very weak not-daemon weapons so they grow in power a little with the heretic wielding them and feel like a worthwhile investment. As it stands I'm pretty well on the fence about them without any real testing or data to go on.

[Mazer Rackham]

 

Sorry, I'm not at all familiar with the way BC works this stuff... 

 

That's because the crafting system is my hare-brained bolt on crap, and I'm not explaining it very well.

 

Upgrading Quality costs materials, but upgrading the weapon Rarity is Acquisition and/or materials. My idea was that if you couldn't acquire stuff you could build it so you would have investment into exploration and foraging.

 

'We're raiding because I want an extra tine on this fork! And a spoon!'

 

If you guys want to ditch the crafting system, and just go back to Infamy Acquisition that's fine, but obviously that's going to slow down your rate of gear upgrades and amassing equipment, since you can only really Infamy Test once(ish) in every new place.

[Necronaut]

 

Hmm, ok re-read that.

 

So the components bit is based on Item Quality, not Rarity.

 

So because his sword is standard Common Quality, it's 10 Components needed?

 

But I would still need to make an Acquisition test, which would be the hard bit as its Rarity is:

 

Power Sword: Extremely Rare

+1 for Upgrade = Near Unique

+1 for this game = Unique.

 

...but that is the Rarity/Acquisition target if it were a totally new item, isn't it?

 

Does the fact that he already has the sword itself as part of his stuff not bring that Rarity back down any?

 

Sorry, I'm not at all familiar with the way BC works this stuff... 

 

 

 

The item's rarity is a definitional attribute of the item. Legion Weapons are much more rare than mortal variants and thus more expensive to maintain/repair/upgrade. The equipment your character starts off with is actually a bit arbitrary, and the item rarities are sort of a very approximate value of what it could gain you on Black Crusade's broken and insane open market. Where I'm going with this is it's great your character started off with Excalibur's rusted and dented second cousin, but it's going to cost you dearly to really bring that thing up to snuff where if you squinted at the two side by side you couldn't tell the difference. Looting the dead and their strongholds is but one way to acquire filthy lucre with which to barter for goods in services in Black Crusade, which would ultimately help to defray any costs associated with upgrading your kit. Otherwise, doing favours for your local Dark Mechanicus shop could be another way to earn their respect such that they might deign to do the work for you.

 

 

Edit: Because Black Crusade doesn't operate on a proper market economy, things are a little... Different. Your infamy is roughly your status or rank within the local mafia. Maybe there are local shopkeepers who run mob-controlled businesses and are okay with it and will give you a nice pastrami sandwich on the house whenever you drop by, but other times you have to storm into the place and demand they pay up their protection money or you'll break their knees and set their cat on fire. And sometimes that unruly shopkeeper has had enough and is waiting for you with a shotgun under his desk. That's, in effect, what infamy is in Black Crusade, and why the market/barter system functions as it does. It's a much more honest interpretation of the might makes right system in 40K than the web of alliances and overlapping fiefs and obligations and bureaucracies that mire Imperial operations, though those sort of exist in the realms of chaos too.

 

Edit 2: I think the crafting system is a great idea worth exploring as an alternative or maybe complementary system to Infamy. If I may suggest something, @Mazer Rackham: perhaps our supply stockpiles while acting as a resource we can stockpile and spend at our leisure can/should also act as a modifier on the necessary crafting tests to produce whatever good we're looking to make so it's not completely divorced from that aspect of the game and it's not a purely transactional affair. The daemon weapons crafting modifiers might be somewhat useful as a reference in that regard. 

Edited September 2 by Necronaut

[Lysimachus]

Was going to type out a long post trying to get this stuff clear in my head, but I don't think it's worth the worry. 

 

I think instead Hagga will just keep on walloping things, and I'll trust the good GM to tell me if and when he's due any Upgrades... that's good RP for a Khornate character, right? 

 

 

Edit: However, I am seriously considering going back to my original idea of requesting that I could swap Hagga's starting Astartes Power Sword for a starting Astartes Power Axe.

 

Both are the same Rarity (Extremely Rare) so that shouldn't be an issue, and you are basically swapping the extra Dam+Pen for a cumulative -20 to his ability to Parry.

 

And that might actually be the simpler/better way of depicting Hagga's claymore?

 

What do you think of that idea, GM?

Edited September 2 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

 

Edit 2: I think the crafting system is a great idea worth exploring as an alternative or maybe complementary system to Infamy. If I may suggest something, @Mazer Rackham: perhaps our supply stockpiles while acting as a resource we can stockpile and spend at our leisure can/should also act as a modifier on the necessary crafting tests to produce whatever good we're looking to make so it's not completely divorced from that aspect of the game and it's not a purely transactional affair. The daemon weapons crafting modifiers might be somewhat useful as a reference in that regard. 

 

Good comment. I hadn't drilled down to that yet, but it was on my radar/intention. Yeah, if you have 300 lightbulbs, it's going to be easier to make a lamp.

 

 

I think instead Hagga will just keep on walloping things, and I'll trust the good GM to tell me if and when he's due any Upgrades... that's good RP for a Khornate character, right? 

 

'Hmm, Hagga has stick!' *Bonk*

 

GM: Hagga you can upgrade now. Are you having fun?

 

Lysi: Yes.

 

GM: Then bing bang bonk, you crazy diamond.

 

EDIT: @Lysimachus yes, you can swap.

 

Edited September 2 by Mazer Rackham

[Xin Ceithan]

 

 

..snip..

Although Xin wants a TPK within four hours, so...

 

..but time is quite malleable in the way, I hear, so…

 

I quite like the idea of raiding / fulfilling contracts for gear - at least the more more important stuff and including it into the narrative/ objective  - over just rolling for it / buying it for points ( though I’m confident that it’ll be included in a nice narrative by you guys  )

 

In unrelated news it’s still almost 30 Degrees here, so …

[Machine God]

C, F or K?

 

 

[Xin Ceithan]

 

C, F or K?

 

 

Fair point  - though tbh, with most of pre-unity Terra using Celsius to my knowledge and  most people supposedly having a hard time posting on the Internet at 30 Kelvin, I ‘d have assumed this one to be an easy educated guess 

[Lysimachus]

 

 

EDIT: @Lysimachus yes, you can swap.

 

 

Excellent, thanks boss! I think this may be the best solution...

 

Of course, I suppose I could still look at adding the Storm Field upgrade at some point… which would push his big sword to a mighty 1d10+10 (+SB11) Pen9!

 

Of course, on the other hand, that would mean a 10% chance of Hagga doing 1d10+1 Dam to himself (after TB+AV) every single time he attacks with it… 

 

I know 'Khorne cares not', etc, but that's ridiculous! 

 

Edited September 2 by Lysimachus

[Trokair]

 

Of course, on the other hand, that would mean a 10% chance of Hagga doing 1d10+1 Dam to himself (after TB+AV) every single time he attacks with it… 

 

I know 'Khorne cares not', etc, but that's ridiculous! 

 

Entirely fluffy, so go for it, it Mazer will let you. 

[Mazer Rackham]

 

I know 'Khorne cares not', etc, but that's ridiculous! 

 

You's got two Kidneys, boy - Khorne has dibs on one, but I want the other! 

[Lord_Ikka]

Gear, gear, gear. The Gods will provide the faithful with what they need.

 

i.e.- Crux'as is not a person who needs gear or has the ability to craft anything other than probably false documents (Trade: Remembrancer + Scholastic Lore: Bureaucracy + Deceive), so that will be on the others to work out. Blackmail material, items useful for converting people towards the Gods, and the dubious gifts of Chaos, yes!

[Necronaut]

 

C, F or K?

 

 

 

First one, then the others.

[Xin Ceithan]

Been giving this sand box thing some thought : 

My idea on the Forbidden Lore / Research was doing the dice roll before writing something along the results as a sort of summary ( sort of a cutscene for the narrative) 

 

If I get your idea, @Mazer Rackham, we should aim to put in IC descriptions of the attempted actions first, then we work out the results together from the initial scene?