40K Assassins Gone from GW Website

[ZeroWolf]

I think we need to be careful about how we talk about this as many are taking it as a given that GK are going to be folded in when the rumour is that it's squarely DW which gets this treatment. There's separate rumours talking about the GK release and new miniature release.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Taking a step out of the GW bubble and taking a look how other companies of tabletop & video games handle this will help a lot. In those franchises the number of factions is around five and with DLCs/supplements a few more are added. Meanwhile GW thinks it´s fine to have over 20 factions in 40K. 

 

I vastly prefer the former approach and it can be done even in 40K with use of the Battle Bible (includes all factions for 2nd 40K) for free on the Interwebz. This book even includes the here mentioned Agents of the Imperium faction. 

[Joe]

27 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

I think we need to be careful about how we talk about this as many are taking it as a given that GK are going to be folded in when the rumour is that it's squarely DW which gets this treatment. There's separate rumours talking about the GK release and new miniature release.

 

The only thing leaning towards GK being included currently is leaked picture we saw of the pre-binding Agents book, which featured GK iconography and appropriate blurb fairly prominently on one of the pages.

 

7 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Taking a step out of the GW bubble and taking a look how other companies of tabletop & video games handle this will help a lot. In those franchises the number of factions is around five and with DLCs/supplements a few more are added. Meanwhile GW thinks it´s fine to have over 20 factions in 40K. 

 

I vastly prefer the former approach and it can be done even in 40K with use of the Battle Bible (includes all factions for 2nd 40K) for free on the Interwebz. This book even includes the here mentioned Agents of the Imperium faction. 

 

This isn't a great comparison, as most of the other prominent wargames are more generalistic in terms of where customers can procure their models and not IP-driven; see Bolt Action, Hail Caesar, Oathmark, Swordpoint, etc, where there is considerably less of a burden on the company behind those wargames to produce the miniatures for faction x and y. Even those that are currently growing in popularity (Barons' War) are pretty well covered by a massive, pre-existing market.

 

It becomes more complicated when you look at IP-driven wargames, which exist in a space of their own and shouldn't really be compared to Warhammer in some regards. As always, there's definitely room for improvement however.

[HeadlessCross]

9 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

problem is when factions exist and have models and have had them for years, then less is definately going to be less

The problem is tons of models getting bespoke rules because a kit exists. I'm of the mindset that, even though there's organizational differences, are Crusader squads and Blood Claws really doing different roles? Variety of models is good, but not everything needs to be special. I'm looking at you, Hounds of Morkai.

[ThePenitentOne]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Taking a step out of the GW bubble and taking a look how other companies of tabletop & video games handle this will help a lot. In those franchises the number of factions is around five and with DLCs/supplements a few more are added. Meanwhile GW thinks it´s fine to have over 20 factions in 40K. 

 

 

And since GW has 3-5x the market share of any other table top gaming company, I think GW is right, and that while other companies with 5 factions might make a blip on the scene, once people realize how boring a game with only 5 factions can get after playing it for 5 years, or 10, or 20, the company gets bought out, goes bankrupt or simply disappears- RIP X-wing.

 

Even Battletech- often labelled by people who don't like the current state of 40k as a long-running, successful competitor. Sure, it's still around, and I've heard people say it's better than ever... Yet the IP has changed hands 3-4 times in 30 years, and they can't get models made without begging for money on Kickstarter. Maybe five or six awesome alien factions created back in the late 80's would have allowed the original IP creators to survive and thrive as GW has. Instead, they stuck with 4 or 5... And the same thing that happens to everyone else who sticks to 4 or 5 factions happened to them.

 

It's a pet theory of course- I have no proof that a lack of varied factions is why no other game company is as successful as the company that has 20 factions. People will counter and say it's because 40k is ubiquitous and played everywhere... But all that does is shift the question to "Why is 40k ubiquitous and played everywhere?" from "Why is GW more successful than anyone else?" and regardless of which of those two questions is being asked, the suite of possible answers doesn't change.

 

 

Edited July 10 by ThePenitentOne

[Dark Shepherd]

I suspect that possibly GW think

 

A. Deathwatch are time consuming to balance/write rules for

B. They dont fit with ease of access/entry philosophy

3. Theyd be a perfect launch faction for the new edition of Kill Team

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I can't see Custodes not being their own faction in 40k. Same with Grey Knights to be honest. The Deathwatch however do seem like they'd fit in quite well in some sort of Inquisition codex. 

[zarkkarn]

Deathwatch and grey knights dont need to be rolled into an agents codex but it would be great if hereticus and xenos inquisitors can take their respective marines as part of the retinue.

[Scribe]

10 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

And since GW has 3-5x the market share of any other table top gaming company, I think GW is right, and that while other companies with 5 factions might make a blip on the scene, once people realize how boring a game with only 5 factions can get after playing it for 5 years, or 10, or 20, the company gets bought out, goes bankrupt or simply disappears- RIP X-wing.

 

Even Battletech- often labelled by people who don't like the current state of 40k as a long-running, successful competitor. Sure, it's still around, and I've heard people say it's better than ever... Yet the IP has changed hands 3-4 times in 30 years, and they can't get models made without begging for money on Kickstarter. Maybe five or six awesome alien factions created back in the late 80's would have allowed the original IP creators to survive and thrive as GW has. Instead, they stuck with 4 or 5... And the same thing that happens to everyone else who sticks to 4 or 5 factions happened to them.

 

It's a pet theory of course- I have no proof that a lack of varied factions is why no other game company is as successful as the company that has 20 factions. People will counter and say it's because 40k is ubiquitous and played everywhere... But all that does is shift the question to "Why is 40k ubiquitous and played everywhere?" from "Why is GW more successful than anyone else?" and regardless of which of those two questions is being asked, the suite of possible answers doesn't change.

 

I dont slap down the "Disagree" often, but this is wildly wrong.

 

You know what was a great game? Massively successful beyond the creators wildest dreams?

 

The Horus Heresy, with...Marines vs Marines.

 

You know what carried GW's bottom line, and frankly still probably does?

 

A single faction, Space Marines.

 

Battletech wouldnt have been successful if they added Aliens. Battletech STILL has far far better PC games than GW could ever claim, so it cannot be the setting that is flawed.

 

No, Battletech has been held back because its a miniatures game (actually paper cut outs, in various editions, I have them in a box 8 feet from where I type this!) with TERRIBLE miniatures. I dont know about the kickstarter quality, but as one who was playing Battletech in my early teens, to then looking at the product I've most recently seen? I have to ask myself, "what the hell is whoever owns this company doing?" The quality sucks, has sucked, and seemingly will continue to suck.

 

I mean we have stuff like the new Fulgrim, and Battletech is still making awkward looking stuff with lower detail than I've seen people 3D print. Its tragic, factually tragic.

 

20 factions is not the key to GW's success. GW is the only real player in the game, thats just the facts, and anyone looking to play TT miniatures in space, is playing, has played, or will play, 40K.

 

Jesus, I mean GW even has Battletech beat at the Mech game! Just look at Adeptus Titanicus!

[Marshal Reinhard]

Feels like we've drifted far off topic.

 

The current 40k assassins are nice sculpts, but seem to be done in the old scale, so I could see them being remade if that was being the case

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Scribe said:

The Horus Heresy, with...Marines vs Marines.

Not to dwell on this tangent too much, but HH isn't just Marines on Marines. 
There are arguably 40ish "factions" when you take into account loyalist and traitor variations. 

(The key point here is that most of said factions can all be based around a very small amount of variant miniatures)

[Chapter Master Valrak]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:02 PM, Brother Borgia said:

I think @Chapter Master Valrak mentioned new assassins too, but I thought they would be new new, not just refresh. 
 

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxtw_vVn5tjOuOwpL596pCxDSlCL5mT8At?si=A814PvN9Gjew5aJP

 

Update on this, its been cleared up via the whispers, the only new model with Agents of the Imperium is Coateaz, mate, shame really. 

[Joe]

I think it's fairly safe to assume that Agents is being viewed as a bit of a dumping ground for unpopular armies and models in that case. Soft-squat Deathwatch (and potentially Grey Knights) as individual armies, whilst possibly giving them options in Kill Team further on down the line.

[Xirix]

20 minutes ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

Update on this, its been cleared up via the whispers, the only new model with Agents of the Imperium is Coateaz, mate, shame really. 

Well that's trash if true, I figured they'd at least try and do some plastic Imperial Henchmen... Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders etc, there's tons of them that need new models.

[ZeroWolf]

16 minutes ago, Xirix said:

Well that's trash if true, I figured they'd at least try and do some plastic Imperial Henchmen... Death Cult Assassins, Crusaders etc, there's tons of them that need new models.

Things like that could be handled by Kill Team (though would need downloadable rules)

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

Update on this, its been cleared up via the whispers, the only new model with Agents of the Imperium is Coateaz, mate, shame really. 

 

Inquisitorbros... we got too cocky... AGAIN...

[DemonGSides]

54 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Things like that could be handled by Kill Team (though would need downloadable rules)

 

They've never had a problem with that before.  That's how KT has made it's money. 

[CL_Mission]

1 hour ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

Update on this, its been cleared up via the whispers, the only new model with Agents of the Imperium is Coateaz, mate, shame really. 

Well that's super disappointing.

[sairence]

It's curious that they're redoing Coteaz, already ancient before the timeline advanced, when stuff like Guard has had so many of their older characters removed.

 

Maybe he'll be more machine than man in the new version. 

[Dark Shepherd]

3 hours ago, Chapter Master Valrak said:

 

Update on this, its been cleared up via the whispers, the only new model with Agents of the Imperium is Coateaz, mate, shame really. 

Small consolation but we are due a new warhammer quest game this year and its 40k's turn so could be some nice new Imperial models in that

[Kharn13]

From today’s article - looks like DW and Agents together?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/11/warhammer-40000-metawatch-the-pariah-nexus-companion/

[INKS]

is that servitor a conversion or new?

[Nova-V]

15 minutes ago, INKS said:

is that servitor a conversion or new?

It's from the Inquisitorial Agents kit.

[gaurdian31]

19 minutes ago, INKS said:

is that servitor a conversion or new?

It is from the Ashes of Faith Inquisition Kill Team.

 

@Nova-V beat me to it.

Edited July 11 by gaurdian31

[Joe]

50 minutes ago, Kharn13 said:

From today’s article - looks like DW and Agents together?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/11/warhammer-40000-metawatch-the-pariah-nexus-companion/

 

That picture isn't exactly new. It's been cropping up since last May.