New Agents of the Imperium Codex Theories

[Tawnis]

So, it's almost guaranteed at this point that any time now we're going to get the official release of Agents of the Imperium as its own codex and that the Deathwatch are almost certainly going to be folded into that. I thought it might be interesting to speculate on what a codex like that might look like. 

Army Rule (Authority of the Inquisition):

I think this is going to be some kind of variation on the current soup rule, but in the opposite direction. What I mean is I think that they will allow you take smaller sections of other Imperial Armies in your list (like Chaos can with Daemons), but still allow them to have their army rules instead of giving a dedicated rule to Agents. I'm guessing it will work in reverse too, like the existing rule currently does. I think that some detachments will also have buffs from supporting factions that you can ally in to encourage some kids of soup lists while still being able to dial in on their overall power levels.

Detachments: (I know they haven't done characters tied to specific detachments yet, but I think they might try something with the Ordos kind of like the Space Marine chapters so that you can't just super-friends all the Inquisitors together.) 

Ordo Malleus: A detachment focused on allied Grey Knights and Terminator Inquisitors, as well as what I'm expecting to be some of the new range in non-space marines servants of the malleus wing which we've seen very little of in tabletop history. I expect Inquisitor Coteaz to be the head of this branch and tied to it. I also expect this to be a very melee focused take on the army. 

Ordo Hereticus: A detachment focused on allied Sororitas as well as bringing to the table Crusaders and other Zealots that have been left by the wayside over the years. The Death Cult Assassins would probably find a home here too since they aren't one of the clade assassin groups, though they could be with the Minoris as well. This would be headed by a new Karamazov model tied to this detachment. If there's a detachment to try and make Battle Shock / Leadership shenanigans work, I expect it to be here. Lots of buffs / debuffs for passing LD on your units while failing enemy ones. 

Ordo Xenos: A detachment focused on the Deathwatch that will now be part of the codex.  I doubt we'll see too much new here since this will essentially be what was once it's own codex. I expect Inquisitor Kyria Draxus to be heading up this detachment. I also expect this to be the most versatile all rounder detachment with a bit of sneaky stuff thrown in. 

 

Order Minoris: This one will be the Assasin focused detachment (which I'm expecting to not be unique units anymore). I think we'll get kits for the last two missing clades in this as well. I think this will be more a meme detachment with each assassin type getting their own unique strat, but I expect it will also be a lot of fun to play. Could be something for allying in Custodes and Sister of Silence here as well? 

Navis Imperialis: The last detachment I think will be focused on the Imperial Navy with buffs to breachers, voidsmen, and Rouge Traders, as well as some for allying in Astra Militarum units. This will be the ranged focused detachment, and I think we'll get some kind of new Rouge Trader character to lead it. 

Adeptus Arbites?: I think this one is the least likely, but they could do an Arbites themed detachment, though I think it might have a lot over overlap with the Navis Imperialis detachment's identity. They could be combine into one, or the Arbites could just be the generic units that fit in everywhere. 

 

What do you all think though, am I close to the mark, or do you have totally different ideas of what we're going to see in the coming weeks? 

 

Edited July 9 by Tawnis

[ThePenitentOne]

I like a lot of your ideas, but I'd suggest a couple changes:

 

While I'm okay with named Inquisitors still existing, and still being important, I don't want detachments to be dependent upon them because named characters suck in Crusade. An Ordo's strength needs to be its generic Inquisitors and unique hench units.  

 

On that note, the Agents dex more than any other NEEDS bespoke Crusade content to make narratives really come to life.

 

The Navis list, more than anything else needs Aircraft in it's list. This is what differentiates it from the Arbites list, which needs a new plastic Repressor, Arbites Bikes and Judge HQ.

[Wormwoods]

I don't know about what I think will show up in the codex, but I know what I would like to see. Less interested in detachements than I am with how these units will slot into existing Imperium armies. 

 

Mirroring what @ThePenitentOne said about Crusade, I would love to see some properly bespoke rules for armies that include Imperial Agents, though again, more in how that applies to existing forces. Say, the inclusion of an Imperial Assassin in your Crusade roster opens up additional character-killing agendas, or taking an Inquisitor from one of the major ordos pushes you towards agendas focused on their enemies. 

 

Outside of maybe having Deathwatch as a Kroot-style Detachement-that-largely-a-second-faction option, that's my hope for narrative play. We'll see how it plays out.

[WAR]

Between your idea @Tawnis and the changes @ThePenitentOne suggested it would be a fun go to codex, 

[casb1965]

Agree with what has already been said, if they do roll Deathwatch and Grey Knights in to the Agents codex they still need to be playable as separate armies as well.

[Tawnis]

13 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

I like a lot of your ideas, but I'd suggest a couple changes:

 

While I'm okay with named Inquisitors still existing, and still being important, I don't want detachments to be dependent upon them because named characters suck in Crusade. An Ordo's strength needs to be its generic Inquisitors and unique hench units.  

 

On that note, the Agents dex more than any other NEEDS bespoke Crusade content to make narratives really come to life.

 

The Navis list, more than anything else needs Aircraft in it's list. This is what differentiates it from the Arbites list, which needs a new plastic Repressor, Arbites Bikes and Judge HQ.

Ah, I meant it the other way around. Not you only get Malleus if you take Coteaz, but you can only take Coteaz if you choose Malleus. The other option would be saying something like, you can only take one named Inquisitor or split them up in some other way? Not too sure. GW has been pretty back and forth on allowing Inquisitor Super friends in it's editions. You couldn't do it last edition, but you can now, so maybe we'll get to keep it. 

For sure, they could do some really cool stuff with Crusade rules here. 

Ohh... I like those ideas. :D 

Edited July 10 by Tawnis

[Tawnis]

This recent image seems pretty telling... 

[casb1965]

One thing I've just thought of as what I would like in a new codex is Inquisitorial Henchmen are made battle-line.

It seems stupid that an Inquisitor can't take his own henchmen as a "troop" choice.

[WAR]

Yes, having the henchmen as battleline would be nice. I think Crusaders need to be added to. 

 

Dedicated transports also, even if it just rhinos, taurox prime, and chimeras. 

[LSM]

Vis-à-vis detachments, I'd like to see a focus on Puritan and Radical for all three Ordos.

• Puritan Malleus - Malleus Inquisitors, with a focus on Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and Grey Knight allies.
• Radical Malleus - Malleus Inquisitors, with a focus on Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and extensive Daemonhosts.
• Puritan Hereticus - Hereticus Inquisitors, with a focus on Arbiters and Sisters of Battle allies.
• Radical Hereticus - Hereticus Inquisitors, with a focus on Arbiters and Sactioned Psykers, Mutants, etc.
• Puritan Xenos - Xenos Inquisitors, with a focus on Imperial Navy and Deathwatch.
• Radical Xenos - Xenos Inquisitors, with a focus on Imperial Navy and Eldar/T'au/Votann allies.

And then (assuming Deathwatch are fully folded in) a Deathwatch only detachment, and an Assassins focussed detachment. 

[casb1965]

3 hours ago, LSM said:

Vis-à-vis detachments, I'd like to see a focus on Puritan and Radical for all three Ordos.

• Puritan Malleus - Malleus Inquisitors, with a focus on Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and Grey Knight allies.
• Radical Malleus - Malleus Inquisitors, with a focus on Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and extensive Daemonhosts.
• Puritan Hereticus - Hereticus Inquisitors, with a focus on Arbiters and Sisters of Battle allies.
• Radical Hereticus - Hereticus Inquisitors, with a focus on Arbiters and Sactioned Psykers, Mutants, etc.
• Puritan Xenos - Xenos Inquisitors, with a focus on Imperial Navy and Deathwatch.
• Radical Xenos - Xenos Inquisitors, with a focus on Imperial Navy and Eldar/T'au/Votann allies.

And then (assuming Deathwatch are fully folded in) a Deathwatch only detachment, and an Assassins focussed detachment. 

 

I like these ideas except for the "extensive use of Daemonhosts" seeing as there's only about 10 recorded in 40k lore and only 3 (I think) being with Inquisitors.

 

[sairence]

7 detachments might also be a bit ambitious. 

 

Genuinely, if we get one for each main order plus a Deathwatch one and maybe one for Assassins and assorted units we can probably count ourselves lucky.

[WAR]

Well we got 4 Detachments:

 

"Should you instead wish to field an entire army of Imperial Agents, the Codex offers four new Detachments which add their own Detachment rules, Stratagems, and Enhancements to the mix, allowing you to support a full Inquisitorial force with no limitations on the number of units you can take. Three of these Detachments are themed around the major Inquisitorial Ordos, while the fourth represents those forces with significant Imperial Navy backing."

[Tawnis]

I was pretty close on the design for them too. Other than the assassins and Navy being folded into one, I was almost totally on the mark. :D 

 

Looking forward to seeing more of the actual rules. 

[LSM]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:28 PM, casb1965 said:

 

I like these ideas except for the "extensive use of Daemonhosts" seeing as there's only about 10 recorded in 40k lore and only 3 (I think) being with Inquisitors.

 

 

Truly?

 

In Codex: Daemonhunters (2003), Radical Inquisitors could take up-to-three Daemonhosts as an Elite choice. And, I mean, Imperium armies can take three right now (as part of Inquisitorial Henchmen units).

[casb1965]

12 hours ago, LSM said:

 

Truly?

 

In Codex: Daemonhunters (2003), Radical Inquisitors could take up-to-three Daemonhosts as an Elite choice. And, I mean, Imperium armies can take three right now (as part of Inquisitorial Henchmen units).

 

Was basing that off of the "known daemonhosts" on the 40k wiki. 

The use of daemonhosts is not that common amongst the Inquisition purely because it goes against everything they ate taught to believe and any inquisitor found using them is declared Hereticus and killed.

[LSM]

"Through the long, secret history of the Inquisition there have been many who have advocated for the study and harnessing of Warp entities in order to defeat the Dark Gods. To some, such men are luminaries; to others they are radicals, individuals dangerously close to crossing the line and becoming one with the enemy. Such radical Inquisitors may even employ the services of bound Daemonhosts to further their ends - testimony to their success in taming the forces of Chaos according to them, but proof positive of their corruption to others.

 

"While most Imperial Guard commanders would baulk at the prospect of siding with these creatures, few would dare voice such doubts in front of an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor. The vast majority of Space Marines, however, would never fight alongside one of these abomination even at the behest of the Inquisition; it is rare indeed to find a loyal Space Marine Chapter willing to fight in league with a daemon.

 

 "Important Note: Daemonhosts may only be chosen if an Inquisitor Lord or Inquisitor is also part of the force. If Daemonhosts are chosen the Inquisitor in charge is branded Radical and may not include Grey Knights in his force."

 

-Codex: Daemonhunters, 2002, pg 24.

 

Fielding Daemonhosts was like, the main thing that Radical Malleus Inquisitors did. (They also rocked.)

 

Ironically, there currently aren't restrictions on fielding Daemonhosts alongside Grey Knights in 10th.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:05 PM by LSM

[Lord_Ikka]

There's a difference between what is known to players and what is known in-universe lore. There may only be a few daemonhosts that have been seen by players/fans, but that can easily be because the Inquisition (quite rightly) suppresses all knowledge of daemonhosts. There are plenty of Radical Inquisitors who tread the path towards daemonhosts, and whole Radical philosophical factions such as the Xanthites, Recongregationists, and Istvaanites all have reasons to use daemonhosts in their various plots. 

 

If you want to go even farther down that sort of road, there are very few novel mentions of the Jokaero (2 named, overall mention in 3 novels total) and most of their lore has been in codices, just like daemonhosts. Yet they've been an equally large part of Inquisitorial retinues in gameplay for years. 

[casb1965]

Totally agree with both of you, in game the restrictions for using daemonhosts is very lax in comparison to in novels. 

 

@LSM I pulled out my copy as well, was surprised by that wording having just read the Eisenhorn trilogy and him having the entire Ordos Helican breathing down his neck calling him Hereticus because he may or may not have contorted with a daemonhost.

 

I think my original reaction was to "extensive use", I'm happy to see 2 or 3 in an army but any larger number becomes "Chaos Daemons lite".

 

[sairence]

It might also be an Ordo thing. Xenos might have less people familiar with and open to the idea of Daemonhosts than Malleus, who'd work much closer with that subject matter.

 

At the end of the day though, it's writers adjusting things to what theor story needs.

 

Everything is canon, nothing is true.

[LSM]

5 hours ago, casb1965 said:

I think my original reaction was to "extensive use", I'm happy to see 2 or 3 in an army but any larger number becomes "Chaos Daemons lite".

 

Oh, I more meant like the detachment would be focussed on them (and that sort of thing). Some strats to give them a boost, some shenanigans that push the boundaries, "Sanctioned" Daemonweapons, etc. Plus return Daemonhosts to being their own unit. Extensive use more in the vein of "if you're playing this detachment, you're taking Daemonhosts" - a raison d'être.

 

(And I'd make the Detachment restricted to no Grey Knights, whereas the Puritan one would have no Daemonhosts. But I guess this is all academic at this point. Seems the Radicals have gotten nada.)

[brother_b]

I see the jokaero in that photo which is good I love the model and the lore and the history of jokaero (as someone who took digital weapons in rogue trader). 
 

Where did that photo come from?

 

Coteaz model to me is meh but I love the fact we’re getting a codex!

 

I bought the boarding party that had navy, voidsmen, etc. I also have some deathwatch a friend gave me and some old school inquisitor models.

 

Im hyped but really wonder what our anti tank/monster options will be. I hope they have more updates soon.

[WAR]

23 minutes ago, brother_b said:

I see the jokaero in that photo which is good I love the model and the lore and the history of jokaero (as someone who took digital weapons in rogue trader). 
 

Where did that photo come from?

 

 

It is from the meta watch this WarComm article

[Tawnis]

6 hours ago, brother_b said:

Im hyped but really wonder what our anti tank/monster options will be. I hope they have more updates soon.

 

Given that (at least for now) Coteaz is out o "new" model, I expect this to come primarily from the units you can ally in. We know at least that Ordo Hereticus gets the Immolator which can take the Multi-Melta Option. The expansiveness of the selection (or lack thereof) will determine our options.

Worst case scenario, I'll take a freeblade Knight Castellan like I did during the Index.