Kill Team Kill Team: Hivestorm (New Edition)

[Kastor Krieg]

 

People are also just assuming that after the 4 year cycle teams that drop off will be gone. Maybe that's just going to be their refresh cycles to update the teams? Or at least replace them with a similar team from the same faction.

 

I can't imagine the arbites and navy teams just being stopped in 3 years because there would be no point selling them for any other purpose. So maybe in 3 years they will update the box and re release with a new ruleset.

 

Likewise teams that do have a place on main stream 40k armies aren't going to just stop being produced

That's conjecture, which doesn't bear out in the face of how GW is eagerly binning entire army sets, not just singular kits.

[irlLordy]

Arbites and Navy breachers are part of Imperial Agents now, so their boxes would just be rebranded for 40k and would continue to be sold there.

 

The only team without any real equivalent in 40k at the moment is Gellerpox, and it would not surprise me to see those models getting added to a Death Guard/Nurgle codex (if the rumours of Chaos codexes becoming god specific are true). 

[Lord Marshal]

 

Sorry if I sound like an old man, but in my time specialist games were run with a “box game, one expansion and done” business mentality and most of those (well, at least the good ones) are still alive and kicking. I have a hard time seeing the problem (not as in “there’s no problem, because I don’t see it”, just that I honestly have a hard time grokking it), because from my perspective, GW doesn’t really release anything that lasts more than four years at present. But on the flipside, you really can (and should) still use your models and games, even if they’re not “up to date”.

 

The problem is this just isn't the modern gaming landscape we live in. 

 

Technically it's true GW aren't coming around to smash up your models if they have an expiry date, nor are they burning your rulebooks, but in practice if you go into most communities and say "who wants to play KT'21?" post-KT'24 you're mostly going to be met by weird looks. You can rage against the dying light all you want, but most people have an aversion to touching anything but the latest, Party-approved version of a game - at least in this day and age. 

 

Sure, there's going to be anecdotal exceptions of "me and two of my mates still play 40k 3rd!" and absolutely more power to them for that, but they are not the vast majority of people. It's like when Fantasy was killed with the End Times: A chunk of people went to play things like Kings of War, developed 9th Age or stuck playing 8th, but the overwhelming majority just threw their hands up and shelved/sold their collections or begrudgingly played AoS because it was the GW-approved fantasy 'successor'. Is it silly? For sure. Should we be encouraging people to play older editions if they don't like something? Absolutely, but unfortunately the landscape we're in means most people aren't interested in doing that.

 

Edited September 7 by Lord Marshal

[Redsun]

The way I'm seeing it with the kill teams I have, I'm going to keep the rules updated myself after the 6 year official rules period. Won't be hard to keep it in line with new editions. I play with a local group, so as long as the personal updates are fair, none of them will have a problem with me using them.

I dont play in tournaments so this works well for me

[LSM]

 

I think a much better way to have gone about this would be to have a core set of killteams that will be kept updated. Think intercessors for marines. A battle line squad that also can also be the start of a 40k army to act as a jumping point for that system too. Then have the more specialist teams rotate like they have proposed. 

 

To piggy-back off of this, one of the weird things I found about this announcement was them saying that the primary reason they're doing this is to keep the range physically manageable, such that they're able to keep it in stock.

 

Which is a good idea! It does suck if you want to play Kill Team, want to play a team, and it's just... sold out all the time.

 

But what's then weird to me is... not all of the teams had dedicated boxes. Void-Dancer Troupe, etc. If rules are freely available, why not keep those ones "Classified"?

 

(Unless, I suppose, they're a victim of "every game needs to be siloed", and they don't want Kill Team Harlequin sales confused for 40k Harlequin sales. In which case, will new Kill Teams continue to get 40k rules support?)

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I feel that the easiest answer is for every army to have an Intercessor style “entry” team, and then on top of that, they can have specialist teams come and go.

[Blindhamster]

kind of sucks to know that very useful and important kits for 40k will go as part of this, kommandos for example are a unit in 40k that will perhaps get dropped from next codex if theres no longer models. Food for thought.

[ThaneOfTas]

 

kind of sucks to know that very useful and important kits for 40k will go as part of this, kommandos for example are a unit in 40k that will perhaps get dropped from next codex if theres no longer models. Food for thought.

I'm almost certain that they'll just get re-boxed as 40k kits when the time comes. The way that the Rogue Reader team has been

[sitnam]

 

I'm almost certain that they'll just get re-boxed as 40k kits when the time comes. The way that the Rogue Reader team has been

 

The bullet point at the bottom of the article lays this out. I could see some units going away, but Kommandos and Krieg aren't going anywhere for 40k. Does anyone really think Scouts and Striking Scorpions are going to disappear in four years?

[Blindhamster]

But if that’s the case, there’s no reason to remove them from kill team as they straight up outline part of the reasoning is due to warehousing stocking 

[sitnam]

 

But if that’s the case, there’s no reason to remove them from kill team as they straight up outline part of the reasoning is due to warehousing stocking 

 

No idea, perhaps they have space dedicated to just Kill Team. I really know nothing about warehousing. But given that we know more Krieg are coming and that several of the KT releases have been staple units for their respective factions, and the fact they explicitly say that some units will stick around, I wouldnt be worried. 

 

The real question will be what happens to the upgrade sprue teams. Do they get reboxed as the new version of those 40k kits, or do the sprues go away? Hand of the Archon has little 40k utility, but Chaos Legionnaires has options in the codex

[Ahzek451]

I don't have any hard feelings toward this thought process of kill teams having a shelf life, more just a matter-of-fact attitude. Much like how I feel about GW prices and feeling priced out. I just don't have incentive to participate in kill team anymore. I have a hard enough tike keeping up with hobby projects, coupled with the idea that I really only like a couple factions in 40k lore, I doubt I'll see my factions' kill team become available in a season in a timely manner and have it table ready before I realistically only have a couple years left on that season for that team. Hell, there's still terrain to paint too. 

 

But I do get it, turn the product. I'm just not interested if that's the level of turn they want to do. It's too short, and I play other games. Warhammer in general is oversaturated. 

 

Bullet meet foot.

Edited September 7 by Ahzek451

[Mogger351]

 

 

No idea, perhaps they have space dedicated to just Kill Team. I really know nothing about warehousing. But given that we know more Krieg are coming and that several of the KT releases have been staple units for their respective factions, and the fact they explicitly say that some units will stick around, I wouldnt be worried. 

 

The real question will be what happens to the upgrade sprue teams. Do they get reboxed as the new version of those 40k kits, or do the sprues go away? Hand of the Archon has little 40k utility, but Chaos Legionnaires has options in the codex

Excellent question, I imagine the 40k units will get the upgrade sprues and a price bump.

[Bouargh]

 

Excellent question, I imagine the 40k units will get the upgrade sprues and a price bump.

 

Not necesarily. Afterall the current set up is already 40k ready. One point though: it looks lowly probable than such a large amount of units so diverses in 40k forced affected, will be repackaged and released under new logos at the same time. Simple phasing out for some look more plausible to me. 

Say a Warhammer underworld treatment or like.

  

So for sake of increased durability it is may be preferable getting kill teams as hidden 40 releases than UFO like units like navy breachers were in their time for example...

 

It makes me wonder if my plan to buy voidscarred is something to be maintained on my rooster.

 

And seeing the hand of the archon as a kill team naintained for 2 years make me think that no 40k update should be hoped for for the dark kins troops in the frametime.

Edited September 7 by Bouargh

[INKS]

 

People are also just assuming that after the 4 year cycle teams that drop off will be gone. Maybe that's just going to be their refresh cycles to update the teams? Or at least replace them with a similar team from the same faction.

 

I can't imagine the arbites and navy teams just being stopped in 3 years because there would be no point selling them for any other purpose. So maybe in 3 years they will update the box and re release with a new ruleset.

 

Likewise teams that do have a place on main stream 40k armies aren't going to just stop being produced

This is exactly what will happen for tournaments. for all other non classified play 4 years doesn't matter.

But in 4 years you will no longer be allowed to play that team in classified tournaments (which might be a super small sample of tournaments, we don't know)

While they will get rid of say Kommandos, there will probably be another Ork team at some point. we don't know at what point, or how that team will play but it's likely they will recycle factions or play styles. There are factions like Nids, who have seen zero teams. so who know.

 

If the team is being used in 40k, they will keep making them likely.

Gellerpox is not one of those teams.

 

 

 

To piggy-back off of this, one of the weird things I found about this announcement was them saying that the primary reason they're doing this is to keep the range physically manageable, such that they're able to keep it in stock.

 

Which is a good idea! It does suck if you want to play Kill Team, want to play a team, and it's just... sold out all the time.

 

But what's then weird to me is... not all of the teams had dedicated boxes. Void-Dancer Troupe, etc. If rules are freely available, why not keep those ones "Classified"?

 

(Unless, I suppose, they're a victim of "every game needs to be siloed", and they don't want Kill Team Harlequin sales confused for 40k Harlequin sales. In which case, will new Kill Teams continue to get 40k rules support?)

My guess is that they want kill teams to be a buy one box kind of thing. Where things like warpcoven and marines come from generic 40k boxes, I think they want to sell you a team that you can then take to 40k. so the reverse of those teams. this sells more boxes and double dips in the right direction.

 

As for the warehouse situation. 

This depends on the team. Striking scorpions aren't going anywhere. Maybe re-boxed, maybe not. 

The warehouse only applies to teams who aren't useful or good in 40k. See Gellerpox. This is actually GWs fault. They could take these teams and make them useful or good in 40k and for some of them they have. But sometimes they just don't seem to care or maybe don't have the time to write actually good rules. So these teams aren't used or played in 40k. When this happens and they cycle out, these are the kits that will go away.

 

Legionaries for example are getting rotated out. But they are KEY in 40k Chaos space marines. So that kit isn't going anywhere.

We know we are getting Krieg... hard to believe they would just axe Krieg from the line. It isn't going to happen.

 

So then what are the other reasons?

1: Balance for a competitive environment. Balance is hard. Very hard. And trying to manage 30+ teams is a lot of work. If they release 8 teams a year (might be more or less than this) just think how quickly that balloons out of control if it already isn't out of control. -- this is also why I am doubtful of how often you'll see rules updates that are meaningful for teams who are not part of the classified list. You might see rules updates, but who knows how good or strong those rules will be. I don't know. 

 

2: Sell more boxes and new teams - Money - Kommando are leaving in a year. It's been rumored that another Ork team is in the works. If we kill off Ork team 1, and then release Ork team 2 - people will buy the new Ork team just because they love Orks. This doesn't mean the models will look the same, or play the same. Just means access to a faction you love. This type of cycle will keep you buying it over and over because you love Orks.

 

So while warehouse space is limited and it is a reason, it is far from the only reason for cycling teams out and doing away with some of the model lines.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

So are we actually sure that KT units are going to survive in 40k? This is GW after all. 

 

Either way it's a good reason to be hesitant in investing. 

[SvenIronhand]

I doubt they will remove, say, STRIKING SCORPIONS from the Eldar roster, but that sort of FUD is yet another reason I feel GW's lack of transparency is a real killer for them.

Edited September 7 by SvenIronhand

[Blindhamster]

I guess to rephrase my earlier comment, kommandos maybe won’t go, but there is a zero chance that every set survives to 40k

[firestorm40k]

 

So are we actually sure that KT units are going to survive in 40k? This is GW after all. 

 

Kill Team units that existed in 40k for many years before, well, Kill Team 

 

- Ork Kommandoz

- Chaos Space Marines 

- Space Marine Scouts

- Striking Scorpions 

- Tau Pathfinders

 

We know that Krieg are going full plastic. Navy Breachers, Rogue Trader arms en and Arbites have just been made official 40k units in the Agents of the Imperium Codex.  Novitiates are part of the Sororitas 40k army. Traitor Guardsmen and Felgors are now part of the Chaos Marines Codex. 

 

These units aren't going to suddenly be removed from the range. They'll just get reboxed with 40k branding, instead of Kill Team branding. 

 

The sky isn't falling, so no need to panic Fraters 

[Robbienw]

There are many in the 40k community who love to catastrophise 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I wouldn't call it that.

 

I'd say GW's track record means people have every right to be uncertain. 

 

In January this year they said Savage Orruks and Beasts of Chaos would be part of AoS 4.0.

 

If Kommandoes or Chaos Legionnaires are going to be reboxed for 40k why not just say it outright. A generic throwaway line at the bottom of an article on a site that is known to have frequent errors is not a reliable guarantee that your Kill Tream is going to 40k. 

 

And given the time and effort involved in assembling and painting miniatures yes people should expect them to have full r7les support for all forms of play for decades not 4 years.

 

Stop defending a multinational corporation. They aren't doing this for any reason other than sheer greed. 

[Tastyfish]

They're doing this for balance reasons, with perhaps greed in wanting to keep selling new Kill teams as the motivating factor. They're not threatening to remove Kommandos from codexes as part of some evil money making scheme.

 

If you're talking Basic Legionaries and Kommandos leaving 40K due to these Kill team balance changes, you're obviously overreacting - and 'full support for all forms of play for decades' is mad. A four year commitment is pretty long, especially when the rules and models you've got aren't going to go away - you could still play the game as it is now in fifty years, or even pass it down a few generations and see those models used and books used a hundred years later (assuming they printed the errata to have the complete ruleset prior to the edition change). People still play Epic: Space Marine, let alone Epic: Armageddon and BFG etc. A few even play the Royal Game of Ur. As for price, Space Marine 2 costs more at launch than a single box Kill Team and I suspect that decades of support will not be forth coming for that.

 

I suspect for some of the 'core' type teams like Chaos you might see Legionary go and be replaced with a near identical Red Corsairs team or just see stuff like Kommandos just get released (perhaps with an upgrade sprue to have a alternative commander loadout). 

 

Corsairs and Imperial Agents teams, got fingers crossed for them. It's kind of nice to know that because of the Kill team commitment to keep those models in stock for the length of time they are, the models at least survive will the transition to 40K 11th edition so there will likely be some compendium style rules for them and a chance for Agents to continue to exist as a full 40K army.

Edited September 7 by Tastyfish

[Noserenda]

Yeah repeatedly chanting the more mainline kill teams wont make the ones like Corsairs any safer, and whilst they are definitely the most vulnerable im sure they arent the only ones.

[Mogger351]

 

I wouldn't call it that.

 

I'd say GW's track record means people have every right to be uncertain. 

 

In January this year they said Savage Orruks and Beasts of Chaos would be part of AoS 4.0.

 

If Kommandoes or Chaos Legionnaires are going to be reboxed for 40k why not just say it outright. A generic throwaway line at the bottom of an article on a site that is known to have frequent errors is not a reliable guarantee that your Kill Tream is going to 40k. 

 

And given the time and effort involved in assembling and painting miniatures yes people should expect them to have full r7les support for all forms of play for decades not 4 years.

 

Stop defending a multinational corporation. They aren't doing this for any reason other than sheer greed. 

Download and collect all materials in print today, play that for decades if that's what's important to you personally.

 

I'd love citation where they stated about beasts being in AoS 4, which I guess technically they are for a full year.

[INKS]

Yeah, this warehouse line effects very few teams. Not sure why that was mentioned really because I feel like that is the smaller of the reasons for it all