Firestorm at 1500 points decision dilema!

[Forté]

I've been playing my Crimson Fists using the Firestorm Detachment for a while now and definitely enjoy the way it can get stuck in quickly with close range shooting.

 

Now, with 3 wins (Marines, Orks, and TSons); my regular opponent has suggested we bump up to 1500 points. So I've been tinkering between the following two list and thought I'd seek a bit of input.

 

List 1

Crimson Fists 1500pts 

 

Firestorm Assault Force

 

CHARACTERS
Captain in Gravis Armour (95 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Boltstorm gauntlet, 1x Power fist, 1x Relic blade
• Enhancement: Forged in Battle

Chaplain with Jump Pack (75 points)
• 1x Inferno pistol

Techmarine (55 points)
 

BATTLELINE
Intercessor Squad (80 points)
• 1x Intercessor Sergeant - 1x Power fist
• 4x Intercessor - 1x Astartes grenade launcher
 

OTHER DATASHEETS
Aggressor Squad (240 points)
• 1x Aggressor Sergeant - Flamestorm gauntlets
• 5x Aggressor - Flamestorm gauntlets

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (80 points)
• 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack - Plasma pistol & Power fist
• 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs - 1x Plasma pistol

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (80 points)
• 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack - Plasma pistol & Power fist
• 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs - 1x Plasma pistol

Ballistus Dreadnought (140 points)

Inceptor Squad (130 points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant - Assault bolters
• 2x Inceptor - Assault bolters

 

Land Raider Redeemer (285 points)
• Hunter-killer missile, Multi-melta, Storm bolter

Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant - Boltgun

• 4x Scout - 2x Astartes shotgun, Missile launcher, Scout sniper rifle

Vindicator (175 points)
• Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter

 

 

List 2

Crimson Fists 1500pts 

 

Firestorm Assault Force

 

CHARACTERS
Captain in Gravis Armour (95 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Boltstorm gauntlet, 1x Power fist, 1x Relic blade

Chaplain with Jump Pack (75 points)
• 1x Inferno pistol

Techmarine (55 points)
 

BATTLELINE
Intercessor Squad (80 points)
• 1x Intercessor Sergeant - 1x Power fist
• 4x Intercessor - 1x Astartes grenade launcher
 

OTHER DATASHEETS
Aggressor Squad (240 points)
• 1x Aggressor Sergeant - Flamestorm gauntlets
• 5x Aggressor - Flamestorm gauntlets

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (80 points)
• 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack - Plasma pistol & Power fist
• 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs - 1x Plasma pistol

Ballistus Dreadnought (140 points)

 

Eradicator Squad (95 points)
• 1x Multi-melta

Inceptor Squad (130 points)
• 1x Inceptor Sergeant - Assault bolters
• 2x Inceptor - Assault bolters

 

Land Raider Redeemer (285 points)
• Hunter-killer missile, Multi-melta, Storm bolter

Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant - Boltgun

• 4x Scout - 2x Astartes shotgun, Missile launcher, Scout sniper rifle

Vindicator (175 points)
• Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter

Obviously, the Aggressors and Gravis Captain go in the Redeemer and the Inceptors will deep strike. So the main change is 2 Jump Int squads vs 1 Jump Int & 1 Eradicators on foot. Much of the rest of the list is units I've been pretty happy with in games so far.

 

Look forward to any input/insights/responses.

 

Cheers

[HeadlessCross]

Is there a particular reason you're saying you're going for Crimson Fists and not using Kantor? 

[Forté]

 

Is there a particular reason you're saying you're going for Crimson Fists and not using Kantor? 

 

There's actually a few reasons why I'm not using Kantor:

 

1. I don't like the sculpt,

2. I can't stand GW resin,

3. I've never liked using named characters in my armies. There's 10 other Captains in the Crimson Fists so the Chapter Master doesn't have to be everywhere,

4. His leader rules don't work with any of the squads I use.

 

I've been playing since before named characters had official game profiles and I actually miss the encouragement to get creative. Plus, my first ever Space Marines were painted as Crimson Fists. The original 40k poster boys.

[HeadlessCross]

 

 

There's actually a few reasons why I'm not using Kantor:

 

1. I don't like the sculpt,

2. I can't stand GW resin,

3. I've never liked using named characters in my armies. There's 10 other Captains in the Crimson Fists so the Chapter Master doesn't have to be everywhere,

4. His leader rules don't work with any of the squads I use.

 

I've been playing since before named characters had official game profiles and I actually miss the encouragement to get creative. Plus, my first ever Space Marines were painted as Crimson Fists. The original 40k poster boys.

Then you're going to do whatever you want based on outlandish principles. I mean you're already doing a lot to not take advantage of the actual Firestorm rules (like the Scouts having Shotguns for example).

[Helias_Tancred]

 

 

There's actually a few reasons why I'm not using Kantor:

 

1. I don't like the sculpt,

2. I can't stand GW resin,

3. I've never liked using named characters in my armies. There's 10 other Captains in the Crimson Fists so the Chapter Master doesn't have to be everywhere,

4. His leader rules don't work with any of the squads I use.

 

I've been playing since before named characters had official game profiles and I actually miss the encouragement to get creative. Plus, my first ever Space Marines were painted as Crimson Fists. The original 40k poster boys.

 

FYI if you like the kit-bashing part of the hobby, We Paint Minis on YouTube did a great job on a Pedro Kantor kitbash! Downside is a lot of components from different kits, upside it looks great! A primaris version is going to come out, but I don't know when?

 

I was leaning into doing a Crimson Fist collection and was definitely considering the We Paint Minis kitbash?

 

[Forté]

 

Then you're going to do whatever you want based on outlandish principles. I mean you're already doing a lot to not take advantage of the actual Firestorm rules (like the Scouts having Shotguns for example).

 

If two shotguns is "doing a lot to not take advantage" I obviously have zero clue about anything.

 

To clarify why I have them like that... I built them when trying out other detachment types. And frankly, bolters on scouts are hardly game winning. It's their redeployment for secondaries that earns them a place in the list. Not damage output.

 

Must admit, your comment about "outlandish principles" made me chuckle. Lucky you never read my Slaanesh related thoughts, many years ago.

Edited September 12 by Forté

[Forté]

 

 

FYI if you like the kit-bashing part of the hobby, We Paint Minis on YouTube did a great job on a Pedro Kantor kitbash! Downside is a lot of components from different kits, upside it looks great! A primaris version is going to come out, but I don't know when?

 

I was leaning into doing a Crimson Fist collection and was definitely considering the We Paint Minis kitbash?

 

 

Cheers. Will give that a look. I'm fine kitbashing and doing basic sculpting. But Kantor really doesn't work for me rules wise. Plus, a character is just a tiny part of a Chapter. It's the scheme and markings that really determines that for me.

[Karhedron]

One thing you might want to consider is swapping the Bolter Inceptors for plasma and taking a full 6-man squad. They can drop in within 3" of a target and then use Crucible of Battle. The Detachment bonus already makes their shooting S10 at close range when they overcharge and they have twin-linked. +1 to Wound and Full rerolls to Wound on massed S10 3D attacks means they can one-shot most units that don't have an Invulnerable save.

[Forté]

 

One thing you might want to consider is swapping the Bolter Inceptors for plasma and taking a full 6-man squad. They can drop in within 3" of a target and then use Crucible of Battle. The Detachment bonus already makes their shooting S10 at close range when they overcharge and they have twin-linked. +1 to Wound and Full rerolls to Wound on massed S10 3D attacks means they can one-shot most units that don't have an Invulnerable save.

 

It's been tempting, though the amount of things I've killed with those S6 bolters has kept me using them as they are. Those sustained hits really add up quickly.

 

I may think of a full plasma squad at 2000 points.

 

A big part of why they stay in my list though is how hard they are to screen out. Excellent for later game objective grabs.

[Galron]

I like the list without the Eradicators just because I really dont like Eradicators or melta in general this edition, especially since you arent using Vulcan for his rerolls for obvious reasons.

Assault intercessors are outstanding utility units for light combat and objective grabbing. I second the plasma inceptors but if you like the bolter version then I am not going to try and convince you otherwise since it obviously works for you. I use shotgun scouts too, and yeah, they arent there for damage except maybe against other scouts and chip damage.  

 

I am not a huge fan of special characters either but will often use the minor guys when they have a cool model like Shrike, or I have a cool model that fits the rules of only a special character like my Minotaur chapter master and Arjac from the Space Wolves, (the dreadnought also ONLY fits the rules for the special character SW dreadnought so I can keep using him). I do long for a return of the days where the use of special characters was looked down upon and we made our own characters, but GW has gotten rid of the whole forge our own narrative thing by limiting our options so badly unfortunately. 

[HeadlessCross]

 

I like the list without the Eradicators just because I really dont like Eradicators or melta in general this edition, especially since you arent using Vulcan for his rerolls for obvious reasons.

Eradicators don't need the reroll from Vulkan, they have it built in. 

[Forté]

 

Eradicators don't need the reroll from Vulkan, they have it built in. 

They have rerolls for days against vehicles and monsters. And the +1S from the Firestorm detachment helps even more. Chuck a Biologis with them and they definitely do what they're designed for. Just don't waste them on targets where they don't get those rerolls.

 

 

I use shotgun scouts too, and yeah, they arent there for damage except maybe against other scouts and chip damage.  

 

Scouts helped me finish of a Chaos Vindicator with 1 turn of shooting, put some damage on a TSons Sorcerer, made some saves, and held my home objective in my last game. I've even had them hold up a Talos in close combat for a few turns in a previous game. For 65 points, I'll definitely except that.

 

I'm thinking more of turning the jump ints into a 10 man counter attacking squad to really take advantage of the Chaplain. Probably magnetise an arm so I can also run them as 2 squads when I want.