Total War: Warhammer 40,000

[Jings]

3 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Notice how he's wearing the same armour with the same shin plate decoration in all four shots. The only difference being the lack of a holster or loincloth in one image. It's the same 2017 Captain. This isn't a meaningful variation. Do I really have to make a collage of every single Primaris Captain and armour option to prove my point? Surely you've all seen the miniatures already by this point. Total War looks visually boring. There's nothing going on other than the most default thing you can imagine. 

 

Edit: Warhammer 40k is a vast universe of material and lore to explore. Imagine how vast that universe is, there's like a whole 3 years of the most recent edition to explore and put in your game. 

 

I strongly suspect you've never played a Total War game. 

 

For a start, you are not going to be zooming in on individual models for the vast majority of your gameplay experience. It's not how the game is played. The fact we're getting customization for characters (and Chapters) is a treat in and of itself because it's effectively a luxury feature as far as these games. 

 

Further, they are no doubt aware they are sitting on a DLC cosmetic goldmine. Look at TW:WH, for example. Tons of DLC for various factions they've been able to release and rake in cash. 40K will give them them more opportunities to do this by order of magnitude. 

 

Do you really think it is reasonable to expect CA to include customization of models to the extent of the tabletop from the outset when dressing up your dollies is not a core focus of the game, rather a nice extra touch? 

 

Wait for the inevitable Chapter DLC if it really is that much of a concern for you. 

[MoriyaSchism]

35 minutes ago, Jings said:

 

I strongly suspect you've never played a Total War game. 

 

For a start, you are not going to be zooming in on individual models for the vast majority of your gameplay experience. It's not how the game is played. The fact we're getting customization for characters (and Chapters) is a treat in and of itself because it's effectively a luxury feature as far as these games. 

 

Further, they are no doubt aware they are sitting on a DLC cosmetic goldmine. Look at TW:WH, for example. Tons of DLC for various factions they've been able to release and rake in cash. 40K will give them them more opportunities to do this by order of magnitude. 

 

Do you really think it is reasonable to expect CA to include customization of models to the extent of the tabletop from the outset when dressing up your dollies is not a core focus of the game, rather a nice extra touch? 

 

Wait for the inevitable Chapter DLC if it really is that much of a concern for you. 

I have played Total War, granted I haven't bought any new ones since Shogun 2. I just don't trust Creative Assembly to deliver on anything anymore from what I've seen recently of their work in recent years and all the layoffs. I knew someone was going to bring up zooming in on individual models, if that doesn't matter why is it even an option to zoom all the way in then? Of course that's not how the game is played but there's this thing called the battle replay feature that some Total War games have. Second I'm looking for a game to be set in the Warhammer universe and not a DLC treadmill or an interactive model catalog. If I wanted DLC up the wall, I'd just go play grand strategy games. I think you're not going to see any meaningful Chapter or faction DLC that doesn't represent something currently on sale being replicated one to one in the game. I'd like to be proven wrong on my assumptions, but from what I've seen of the game and GW's proud announcement that a one to one replica of the new Nazdreg model will be featured in the game makes me think it's heading down the advertisement route. 

I am not asking for a 100% accurate replica of the real life conversion system in the game. I'm asking for what they usually have for line infantry in other Total War, randomly generated infantry based on a set of pre-built parts, just how every line guy isn't entirely identical in Total War Warhammer for example. Clearly they have the mechanism to do that with the holster, helmet and loincloth toggles they have shown, I believe it's not enough. What was shown so far looks really boring and samey. GW hasn't had a good track record with games recently, they rushed Mechanicus 2 out the door early, it got bad reviews. The game was eventually patched but half the players didn't bother to return. Dawn of War IV heading in the same direction and I don't have any faith in Creative Assembly. Lastly picking Total War for Warhammer 40,000 is a mistake, Warhammer 40,000 would be better adapted as a completely battle focused game like Wargame or Steel Division by Eugene Systems but that's really not my call. That's GW's expensive mistake to make. 

[Jings]

9 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

I have played Total War, granted I haven't bought any new ones since Shogun 2. I just don't trust Creative Assembly to deliver on anything anymore from what I've seen recently of their work in recent years and all the layoffs. I knew someone was going to bring up zooming in on individual models, if that doesn't matter why is it even an option to zoom all the way in then? Of course that's not how the game is played but there's this thing called the battle replay feature that some Total War games have. Second I'm looking for a game to be set in the Warhammer universe and not a DLC treadmill or an interactive model catalog. If I wanted DLC up the wall, I'd just go play grand strategy games. I think you're not going to see any meaningful Chapter or faction DLC that doesn't represent something currently on sale being replicated one to one in the game. I'd like to be proven wrong on my assumptions, but from what I've seen of the game and GW's proud announcement that a one to one replica of the new Nazdreg model will be featured in the game makes me think it's heading down the advertisement route. 

I am not asking for a 100% accurate replica of the real life conversion system in the game. I'm asking for what they usually have for line infantry in other Total War, randomly generated infantry based on a set of pre-built parts, just how every line guy isn't entirely identical in Total War Warhammer for example. Clearly they have the mechanism to do that with the holster, helmet and loincloth toggles they have shown, I believe it's not enough. What was shown so far looks really boring and samey. GW hasn't had a good track record with games recently, they rushed Mechanicus 2 out the door early, it got bad reviews. The game was eventually patched but half the players didn't bother to return. Dawn of War IV heading in the same direction and I don't have any faith in Creative Assembly. Lastly picking Total War for Warhammer 40,000 is a mistake, Warhammer 40,000 would be better adapted as a completely battle focused game like Wargame or Steel Division by Eugene Systems but that's really not my call. That's GW's expensive mistake to make. 

 

Mate the zooming in is just to watch the fights. It wasn't a problem when it was the same ten Roman legionnaires scrapping the same 10 Gauls and it won't be with Marines crumping some Boys. 

 

It's going to be a DLC treadmill because why would they not? For one, the TW series *is* a Grand Strategy series, so its part and parcel for that model to pump out DLC to expand on systems and units. For two, it wouldn't be economically viable to shunt in the myriad factions without monetising it in some fashion. What I and many others expect is for the main game, and the multiple subsequent expansion packs they'll release, to include baseline factions we expect, and then DLC to expand on those with sub-factions. It would be expensive and impractical for them to include, for example, three Imperial Guard regiments that will play the same and then assign extra budget for duplicate models, textures and animations. That's DLC territory, and it's not necessarily a bad thing provided they don't drown us in it from the get go. This is likely where you'll get your collection of gubbins to mix up your special captain from. There's no reason to expect there won't be slight variations for line infantry, it just isn't likely to be be at a granular customisable level. That's fine. It's not what the game's about. 

 

I am actually sympathetic to the view that a lot of the models are going to be ripped straight from the model range. That's an issue that has particularly irked me for a while now. Boils my urine when I see Codex art or read sections of a novel that may as well be a GW Webstore catalogue. That said, given the sheer scale that this game is trying to represent, and the extent of the design resources available, I think in this instance it's more than forgivable. What would be the point in designing everything from the ground up when there are established designs available? It's a bit like being upset about a Star Wars game having Stormtroopers. It's a mutually beneficial decision for GW and CA to do that, as it gives them a bit of vertical integration and advertising for their model range. They literally brought back the Old World after TW:WH because people saw the factions and went "I wanna buy these". 

 

Let's be real on its performance though. It's a Creative Assembly game. It's a Total War. It's going to be a buggy borderline unplayable mess on release, because it's a Total War game. And it's going to sell absolute gangbusters because it's a Total War game with 40K branding. I don't think comparing an indie game like Mechanicus to a Triple-A Creative Assemblies endeavour is a fair comparison. 

 

I'm just excited to play a multiplayer campaign with the lads. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

I have played Total War, granted I haven't bought any new ones since Shogun 2. I just don't trust Creative Assembly to deliver on anything anymore from what I've seen recently of their work in recent years and all the layoffs. I knew someone was going to bring up zooming in on individual models, if that doesn't matter why is it even an option to zoom all the way in then? Of course that's not how the game is played but there's this thing called the battle replay feature that some Total War games have. Second I'm looking for a game to be set in the Warhammer universe and not a DLC treadmill or an interactive model catalog. If I wanted DLC up the wall, I'd just go play grand strategy games. I think you're not going to see any meaningful Chapter or faction DLC that doesn't represent something currently on sale being replicated one to one in the game. I'd like to be proven wrong on my assumptions, but from what I've seen of the game and GW's proud announcement that a one to one replica of the new Nazdreg model will be featured in the game makes me think it's heading down the advertisement route. 

I am not asking for a 100% accurate replica of the real life conversion system in the game. I'm asking for what they usually have for line infantry in other Total War, randomly generated infantry based on a set of pre-built parts, just how every line guy isn't entirely identical in Total War Warhammer for example. Clearly they have the mechanism to do that with the holster, helmet and loincloth toggles they have shown, I believe it's not enough. What was shown so far looks really boring and samey. GW hasn't had a good track record with games recently, they rushed Mechanicus 2 out the door early, it got bad reviews. The game was eventually patched but half the players didn't bother to return. Dawn of War IV heading in the same direction and I don't have any faith in Creative Assembly. Lastly picking Total War for Warhammer 40,000 is a mistake, Warhammer 40,000 would be better adapted as a completely battle focused game like Wargame or Steel Division by Eugene Systems but that's really not my call. That's GW's expensive mistake to make. 

Like, I sympathise completely with not trusting Creative Assembly. They have been on a long downward trajectory. I'd argue their last "good" (or, "problem free", perhaps?) was that shogun 2. Total Warhammer 40.000 feels like a real make or break moment for them.

 

What I don't agree with is that the one captain model is emblematic in any one way of the games potential quality. This information simply cannot be extrapolated from this one model that's showcasing the army painter function, which in itself is higher customization options than is standard for TW games.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

Says something that shogun 2 is considered their last good/problem free game when it still had crashes to desktop and graphical errors and glitches with some (largely amd) graphic cards . But considering the next game was rome 2..yeaa 

 

This would be the first TW game with painter options right? Unless I missed something with their newer historicals. The only time your units even changed appearance was back in medieval 2 when your troops got armor upgrades (I still lament the loss of that to this day).

Edited Sunday at 06:12 PM by Mechanicus Tech-Support

[Marshal Reinhard]

21 minutes ago, Mechanicus Tech-Support said:

Says something that shogun 2 is considered their last good/problem free game when it still had crashes to desktop and graphical errors and glitches with some (largely amd) graphic cards . But considering the next game was rome 2..yeaa 

Honestly, I was struggling with what to call it. There's always been issues. I just didn't have any with Shogun 2. And then as you say, Rome 2 came. I think its where the longward trend began. TH:WH felt like they were largely riding on the IP, and from what I hear, there's a downward trend between the three titles? 

[darkhorse0607]

4 hours ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

and from what I hear, there's a downward trend between the three titles? 

 

Eh, I think the general consensus (someone feel free to say no, but its generally what I see on the YouTube, reddit, and in my own opinion, etc) is that 2 was the best. 3 was a disaster at launch. Now its in an ok state all things considered, there's hype for Lords of the End Times but they still havent done the Siege update they've been promising for going on a year now as well as other fixes.

 

Being skeptical about how 40k is going to launch is the right approach. CA doesnt have a great track record (both at launching in a broken state and ignoring all the feedback they get until it blows up in their face) and this will be their first game on the new engine so I expect its going to be a rough launch. On the flip side, they normally dont show gameplay this far out, so maybe thats a good sign

 

The whole "This is the same model colored differently" isn't an issue imo. Theyre going to do DLCs to flesh out the factions and add others, I am not worried about that. Plus Warhammer 3 introduced the customizable demons faction, where you could change/outfit your faction leader as you wanted so I expect the SM captain is going to be an extension of that. Give him different equipment and he changes his look to support it 

Edited Sunday at 11:20 PM by darkhorse0607

[DemonGSides]

End of life WH2 was great, but they had to make WH3, and they couldn't just start from End of Wh2 to start working on 3 as that's not how game development nor the linear march of time work. This made it so that Wh3's fork off of Wh2 was not at an ideal location (Majorly, being before some huge reworks that made the game work really well) and they had to basically spend the first year and a half playing catch up to their own previous game.

 

WH3 is in a pretty solid spot now, though it did have some SERIOUS growing pains.  The upcoming DLC looks really good.

 

Total War Three Kingdoms was excellent on release and would've continued to be excellent if they had made better DLC prioritizations; a game called THree Kingdoms without a way to start a campaign as one of the historical three kingdoms is kinda silly; I understand it not being available on launch, but it seems like an easy slam dunk DLC for the future and we got... 8 Princes, which is campaign set in a different historical era.  Crazy choices behind that game.  But it worked (Mostly) and had really good systems.  Troy was fine, but suffers from being from a boring era.  Pharoah was lambasted for the same reason, but people REALLY like the combo Troy+Pharoah (Dynasties? I think?) so it's not as black and white as "They've only made bad games since Shogun 2"; Shogun 2 is a masterpiece of a game and is tough to live up to for any company.

 

"My captains might have similar shin pads" is a crazy complaint for an RTS game.