What Happens When Chaos is the Starter Again?

[Dalmyth]

So I recently had a thought, we know that with each edition we're very likely going to get a generic Marine half and another half that will herald a range refresh for another faction. This thought left me wondering about just what kinda refreshes we could see in the future. For instance would the Voltann be considered for a starter box eventually? The biggest thought I had though was this:

"What would the next Chaos starter look like?"

Would it be something with generic CSM or would we also see something similar to the Dark Imperium box where the Death Guard were center stage. Could we eventually see Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons, or World Eaters included within a starter and just what exactly would the contents of one with those factions look like?

I know we're a good bit off from 11th and I'm not really expecting Chaos to be in it this time, but its an interesting thought experiment on what the community would like to see and what we think could be included.

[DemonGSides]

I actually do expect Chaos as the next one. We haven't had them as the bad guy since Death Guard and we've had back to back Xenos as the enemy so it would make sense to go back to Chaos in that regard.

 

I would imagine generic chaos; could be a good time to do Bikers v Bikers for both sides and get the MPK Outriders out next to upscaled Chaos Bikers. They could then filter to the legions as well where appropriate; probably WE and EC, though some rotten biker gang would be cool for DG. 

[Halandaar]

Thing is, the last two starters have featured enemy factions which needed significant overhauls to their model ranges. Chaos (Space Marines, at any rate) have been served pretty well with updated minis over the last couple of editions with the overwhelming majority of their units replaced, and that imo makes them a less viable as a candidate for inclusion. Sure they still need Bikers (and arguably Raptors), but that's not enough to build a starter box on.

 

Daemons however would be another matter; all the core Daemon kits are fairly dated now and would probably benefit from replacing, but with them being spread between all four gods it doesn't lend itself to a coherent force in a starter box.

 

If I was placing bets I'd say a new Dark Mechanicum range as the antagonist force for 11th feels more likely than CSM or Daemons.

[DemonGSides]

Idk, dark mechanicum feels like the purview of the 30k team and with all the delineations GW has between their teams, if feels less likely.

 

Could just be a box of new things. Doesn't have to be a refresh; Tyranids only got one unit in the box that was a refresh, everything else was brand new (okay I guess screamer killer also was technically a refresh).

 

I do think it'll be something non Xenos. The only force I can think of that's still way old is Dark Eldar and idk if they have Main Box appeal. 

[ZeroWolf]

Rumours are stating Orks so far, but i wouldn't expect consistent rumours till this time next year. Basically if they're still saying Orks...it's Assault on Black Reach 2: Electric Bugaloo.

 

Orks are pretty popular afterall

[siegfriedfr]

Would love to see Drukhari.

 

As far as Chaos is concerned plenty of things to update/add still, so a starter box is not out of the question.

 

Question is, Can they keep creating so many new units each edition for the space marines without overloading the faction?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think the answer to that is no, which is why at least some of the units this time were redone sculpts, like Terminators and Sternguard Veterans.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see new Intercessor sculpts in 11E, it would fit with about how often they refreshed the Tactical Squad prior.

[Dalmyth]

42 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see new Intercessor sculpts in 11E, it would fit with about how often they refreshed the Tactical Squad prior.

I'm honestly really expecting to see new Intercessors soon. I think the new Liberators in Skaventide were definitely a sign that they're fully willing to redo their relatively new units to make sure the poster boys have new kits in the box.

Edited Thursday at 04:22 PM by Dalmyth

[sitnam]

If we follow the trend of the antagonists being factions that need a big refresh, Drukhar just make the most sense. But it's been two xenos in a row and even if they do Xenos again, new MPK Boys would sale well

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm not sure swiching back and forth between xenos and chaos is necessarily a thing.  I know this is going back past what is likely relevant, but the various main box sets have been:

 

2nd ed:  orks (xenos)

3rd ed: drukari (well, dark elves then - xenos)

4th ed: tyranid (xenos)

5th ed: orks (xenos)

6th ed: chaos marines/cultists (chaos)

7th ed: same chaos marines/cultists (chaos)

8th ed: plague guard (chaos)

9th ed:  necron (xenos)

10th ed: tyranids (xenos)

 

So, while it makes a certain sense to swap back between xenos and chaos, I don't think its safe to make any assumptions as to that being what's going to occur.  Rather, it would seem to me other considerations re model refreshes or internal considerations (which models does GW have in the work that are the best fit for a box set in terms of being a bundle of units and/or ease of making easy-to-build) which would be hidden from our eyes.  IMHO (and to be honest, this a hunch and not based on any actual knowledge of GW), its the internal factors that are likely the biggest force in determining what makes it into the next edition boxed set(s).

Edited Thursday at 06:17 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Halandaar]

6 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Idk, dark mechanicum feels like the purview of the 30k team and with all the delineations GW has between their teams, if feels less likely.

 

Vashtorr would like a word. Imo he's the model that is the foot in the door for Dark Mech, much the same as Guilliman was for the Primaris that followed.

 

Anyway, the simple fact is that the faction that ends up in the box will be the one with the biggest model wave planned for 11th Edition. Which faction is that going to be?

 

The existing non-Imperium ranges with the oldest units are now:

1. Chaos Daemons - Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Seekers and the Spawn are all are all from 4th Edition and are really showing their age now. Daemons is probably the single faction in the game with the most potential, as the design studio could go absolutely wild with them, but they always seem to play it very safe and I just don't think they make a very coherent offering for a launch box.
2. Orks - These are an odd one because they have had LOADS of attention in the last few editions, but there are still a fair few things like Warbikes, Burnas/Lootas and old multi-part Boyz are all from 4th Edition, and the Nobs, Stormboyz, Gretchin, Killa Kans and Deff Dread are from 5th with the majority of those warranting a do-over as well.
3. Drukhari - it feels weird to say that because I still think of the big 5th Edition refresh as being "recent" but Kabalites and Wyches are now some of the oldest core units still in production, and somehow Drulhari have only had 5 character models, 3 unit kits and a flyer released in the 15 years since that wave came out. When you add things still in resin (or rotated) that need replacing like Grotesques, Beastmasters and the Court of the Archon, and the possibility of dedicated kits for units that got dropped like Trueborn and Bloodbrides, there's a good basis there for a big revamp before you even start thinking about *new* units, plus launch factions get a big new centrepiece and who fits the bill better than Vect on the Dais of Destruction? 

Out of those three Drukhari is the one I want most, but Orks is probably what we'd get. Space Marines vs Orks is an iconic matchup in 40k and there's enough in the Ork range that could be legitimately updated (and scope for brand new stuff) that they just feel like a likely candidate. 

 

Of course there's still the possibility of new/revived factions like the Dark Mechanicum, or Lost and the Damned (the Traitor Guardsmen and Beastmen kits have established a foothold there).

 

Regarding Space Marines, that is never going to be a problem for GW. They'll just keep going back and resurrecting firstborn unit options that were removed or haven't yet been converted to Primaris. Captains and Librarians on Outrider Bikes, Chaplains with Jump Packs, Terminator Ancient, Primaris Vanguard Veterans, Assault Terminators are all pretty obvious candidates for the 11th Edition SM wave, and I also would not be surprised to see Intercessors redone in such a way as to finally replace the firstborn Tactical Squad. A squad with Grav weapons too, as Grav-Cannons are now the only weapon type from the Devastator Squad not represented by it's own Primaris unit.

[DemonGSides]

2 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

Vashtorr would like a word. Imo he's the model that is the foot in the door for Dark Mech, much the same as Guilliman was for the Primaris that followed.

 

I guess, but he's taking his sweet time then; Gulliman came out and 6 months later we had Primaris.  We've had Vashtorr for 2 years and not a peep about anything Dark Mechanicum related.  It's as likely as anything else, sure, but I'm not sold that Vashtorr was anything other than "something cool" they had.

 

Dark Mechanicum showing up in both Horus Heresy and LI leans me towards "That's ours" right now for the Dark Mechanicum.  I like the Death Guard's demon engines, so I'm happy to have them join, but it just feels like not gonna happen any time soon because of GW's stupid delineations.

 

I agree on your other points; I don't think Daemons are gonna be it because I'm part of the group who believes they're probably going away as a monolithic faction.

[Moonstalker]

I feel like Orks or Chaos make sense narratively; we had Necrons as they returned to deal with the next threat, which was Nids.  The growing Nid presence is riling up the (Kr)Orks,  Chaos has been an ever-present threat since the Great Rift.  Besides "who needs the models" I think that has been the driving factor in the starter boxes.  Who makes sense as the enemy?  What sets the story for the edition?

 

So for that, I'd put my money on Orks.

[firestorm40k]

I everyone has been making some really good points in this discussion  - I'd like to throw another contender into the mix, however:

 

Tau. 

 

Basically, the Fire Warriors and Pathfinders are still based on the designs that go back almost 25 years, and although both have seen retooling of sprues etc, they've not seen the 'upscaling' or 'rescaling' that other factions have had in the last 10 years. 

 

Similarly, Battlesuits - they don't really need a redesign, but their kits are also - what, 10-15 years old now? 

 

Tau have seen some big refreshes of late - Kroot fully updated, Vespid redone - but the core battle line and trademark units are logically due for an update. So maybe they'll be the other half of the next starter? 

 

Having said that, since Dark Imperium GW have made a move to having one of the factions be one that is easier to paint, so therefore accessible for entry-level gamers & painters. Death Guard, Necrons, Tyranids - and on the other side, Nighthaunt, Kruleboys and Skaven are all models that (especially with the likes of Technical and Contrast paints) can be painted quickly using simple techniques. (I know because I've done three of those that way ) I'm not sure that's necessarily the same for Tau. 

 

We'll likely know a bit more later this year/early next year when the sources that leak tidbits to the likes of Valrak start letting info trickle out..! 

[Halandaar]

3 hours ago, firestorm40k said:

I everyone has been making some really good points in this discussion  - I'd like to throw another contender into the mix, however:

 

Tau. 

 

Basically, the Fire Warriors and Pathfinders are still based on the designs that go back almost 25 years, and although both have seen retooling of sprues etc, they've not seen the 'upscaling' or 'rescaling' that other factions have had in the last 10 years. 

 

Similarly, Battlesuits - they don't really need a redesign, but their kits are also - what, 10-15 years old now? 

 

Tau have seen some big refreshes of late - Kroot fully updated, Vespid redone - but the core battle line and trademark units are logically due for an update. So maybe they'll be the other half of the next starter? 

 

Tau is one of the most complete and up to date plastic ranges; most of the battlesuits and the Fire Warriors were last released during 7th Edition which is still pretty recent in terms of the lifespan of 40k kits, and the Pathfinders, Riptide and Broadsides are only from 6th Edition. The only things older than that are the Sniper Drone Team (which admittedly does need updating) and the vehicle kits like the Devilfish and Hammerhead, but GW hasn't really shown any desire to update vehicles over the last few editions. 

 

The other factor going against them regarding a starter set is that they look too "good" (or at least, they look not obviously evil) and that's the one line you can draw through every previous starter set regardless of whether the enemy was Chaos or Xenos, they look like the bad guys. 

[TheMawr]

I think there is a "grand alliance" like assumption since AoS wich just isn't true for 40k. Xenos aren't one connected thing the same way destruction or death are there, nor will it ever be.

 

I'm skeptical of the orks rumors because the way it was presented in the beginning sounds more end of edition campaign to me ( heavy focus on narrative etc, but this is not the topic so leave it at that )

 

But if it happens I expect a "kruleboyz" situation. The starterset and maybe even starter wave being heavily themed to the point of almost being a seperate faction. Maybe cyborks with bionik boyz battleline etc.

 

This method I could see with other "not in need of core updates" factions. ( and like has been said, this already happened with tyranids and necron.. only the battleline was an updated core element in the starterset. )

 

But not every new thing HAS to be a new or updated thing, but I doubt GW ( nor some fans ) see it that way, what I mean is a starterset could be iron warriors for example with the etb starterset models being visual iron warrior excisting CSM units that don't get a seperare kit or datasheet, instead focusing the mpk releasewave on just generic CSM negavolt cultists, mutilators, daemon engines and vehicles and one or two named iron warrior characters or something. Don't know if it makes any sense what I mean.

 

But yes, we still do have the perfect candidate in dark eldar, they aged relatively well but they could use modernization as well as many additions. ( on the big thing and character fronts especially.) At this point they are perhaps best served by a starterset villain approach.

 

Btw tau still have one old infantry kit ; stealth suits. But I think that will be a kill team thing eventually.

 

 

[Frogian]

23 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

 

I would imagine generic chaos; could be a good time to do Bikers v Bikers for both sides and get the MPK Outriders out next to upscaled Chaos Bikers.

 

Is MPK multi-part kits? if so the big launch boxes (and following starter sets) are always ETB

 

22 hours ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I think the answer to that is no, which is why at least some of the units this time were redone sculpts, like Terminators and Sternguard Veterans.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see new Intercessor sculpts in 11E, it would fit with about how often they refreshed the Tactical Squad prior.

 

yeah, think new Intercessors are a possibility, along with assault terminators (especially given we've had dark angel and blood angel releases that didn't include them). possibly vanguard vets, and then maybe some new heavy weapon team.

 

anyway, as others have said rumours are Orks, and it makes sense. A lot of base units that need redoing. would be the first time in a long time i'm more excited about the non-SM half. 

[Domhnall]

 

20 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I'm not sure swiching back and forth between xenos and chaos is necessarily a thing.  I know this is going back past what is likely relevant, but the various main box sets have been:

 

2nd ed:  orks (xenos)

3rd ed: drukari (well, dark elves then - xenos)

4th ed: tyranid (xenos)

5th ed: orks (xenos)

6th ed: chaos marines/cultists (chaos)

7th ed: same chaos marines/cultists (chaos)

8th ed: plague guard (chaos)

9th ed:  necron (xenos)

10th ed: tyranids (xenos)

 

So, while it makes a certain sense to swap back between xenos and chaos, I don't think its safe to make any assumptions as to that being what's going to occur.  Rather, it would seem to me other considerations re model refreshes or internal considerations (which models does GW have in the work that are the best fit for a box set in terms of being a bundle of units and/or ease of making easy-to-build) which would be hidden from our eyes.  IMHO (and to be honest, this a hunch and not based on any actual knowledge of GW), its the internal factors that are likely the biggest force in determining what makes it into the next edition boxed set(s).

 

 

One thing I've just noticed/thought about, is that the opposite to the poster boys is always a "bad" xenos faction. In very broad terms, there is a "good side" and a "bad side" (in terms of 40k that is!). 

Good = Imperium, Eldar, Tau, Leagues of Votann. 
Bad = Chaos, Dark Eldar, Orks, Necrons, Tyranids (and assocated gribblies)

 

I don't know if this is a concious decision by GW or it's just how it's worked out, but I don't see any of the "good guys" being used in a box set against the Imperium. As the contents usually sets the narrative for the edition, Marines having beef with the Eldar doesn't seem as grand a scale as the Orks massing for a huge offensive on "not armageddon" or some such.

 

I understand why GW have their poster boys in each box, but sometimes I wonder if it'd be better to try giving another army a shot at the spot light for an edition? 

[DemonGSides]

31 minutes ago, Frogian said:

Is MPK multi-part kits? if so the big launch boxes (and following starter sets) are always ETB

 

I don't think Dark Imperium was. The last few have been, but it's not a guarantee.

[Frogian]

they weren't ETB but they were all mono-pose, I can't see GW going back on it now given how much easier it makes it for new players.

Edited Friday at 04:04 PM by Frogian

[Lord Abaia]

Referring specifically to when the next chaos army is in the starter box, I think it would be a great opportunity to expand TS, WE, or EC to the levels of DG. An ETB unit of that factions main troop alongside a new, faction-specific daemon engine, an HQ, and some other unit to fill a gap (havoc analogues, red butchers, dual khopesh weilding  melee sorcerers, noise terminators, whatever.)

 

That's what I would do anyway.

[Indy Techwisp]

Current rumours are pointing to it being a vs Orks box for 11th.

However, in terms of a "next Chaos starter box", I think it'll be how they introduce another new faction, rather than being an expansion/refresh for an existing one.

 

Maybe by 12th they'll be ready to make DarkMech it's own faction, or they'll promote Iron Warriors to Cult Marine status and make them the Cult Marines of the Soul Forge with some Lore element explaining how Perturabo basically bought enough shares in the Soul Forge to become the joint owner with Vashtorr and it's worked out great for both of them.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Frogian said:

they weren't ETB but they were all mono-pose, I can't see GW going back on it now given how much easier it makes it for new players.

 

Dark Vengeance was push fit so they go back and forth on things. I'm guessing it would be ETB as well, but it could also not be. 

[TheArtilleryman]

A ton of plastic Catachans plus updated tanks like the basilisk/wyvern and new ogryns 

 

vs

 

Updated range of ork speed freaks with warbikes, buggies and updated boyz in a wartrukk

 

…

 

Carnage

Edited Friday at 07:51 PM by TheArtilleryman

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:47 AM, Halandaar said:

Thing is, the last two starters have featured enemy factions which needed significant overhauls to their model ranges. Chaos (Space Marines, at any rate) have been served pretty well with updated minis over the last couple of editions with the overwhelming majority of their units replaced, and that imo makes them a less viable as a candidate for inclusion. Sure they still need Bikers (and arguably Raptors), but that's not enough to build a starter box on.

 

Daemons however would be another matter; all the core Daemon kits are fairly dated now and would probably benefit from replacing, but with them being spread between all four gods it doesn't lend itself to a coherent force in a starter box.

 

If I was placing bets I'd say a new Dark Mechanicum range as the antagonist force for 11th feels more likely than CSM or Daemons.

I’d argue bikers and raptors are enough especially if you introduce a new lord for one or both to go along with them.

 

a starter box could be something like, 1 unit of bikers, 2 units of raptors, 1 unit of obliterators, 2 units of legionaries, and a lord for either the bikers or raptors.

 

seems like a starter box to me.