What Happens When Chaos is the Starter Again?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:14 AM, siegfriedfr said:

Would love to see Drukhari.

 

As far as Chaos is concerned plenty of things to update/add still, so a starter box is not out of the question.

 

Question is, Can they keep creating so many new units each edition for the space marines without overloading the faction?

Or a possible Corsair/drukhari combo with new corsairs would be pretty cool.

[ZeroWolf]

4 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Current rumours are pointing to it being a vs Orks box for 11th.

However, in terms of a "next Chaos starter box", I think it'll be how they introduce another new faction, rather than being an expansion/refresh for an existing one.

 

Maybe by 12th they'll be ready to make DarkMech it's own faction, or they'll promote Iron Warriors to Cult Marine status and make them the Cult Marines of the Soul Forge with some Lore element explaining how Perturabo basically bought enough shares in the Soul Forge to become the joint owner with Vashtorr and it's worked out great for both of them.

That's actually what I think they may do (eventually) with Iron Warriors, though it largely hinges on the Vashtorr storyline 

[ThaneOfTas]

19 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I don't think Dark Imperium was. The last few have been, but it's not a guarantee.

~Dark Imperium absolutely was ETB.~

 

Sorry, on reflection it was monopose but not pushfit so I guess not officially ETB.

Edited January 11 by ThaneOfTas

[Halandaar]

17 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I’d argue bikers and raptors are enough especially if you introduce a new lord for one or both to go along with them.

 

a starter box could be something like, 1 unit of bikers, 2 units of raptors, 1 unit of obliterators, 2 units of legionaries, and a lord for either the bikers or raptors.

 

seems like a starter box to me.

 

Except Obliterators and Legionaries already have modern monopose minis from Shadowspear (and Legionaries have an even newer multipart kit), and Jump Lord is literally from the most recent Chaos release. None of those would be a good pick for inclusion.

 

Not to say they couldn't put together a valid CSM side, Terminator Lord needs a do-over so bring it in line with the modern sculpts, and in terms of core troops you can't buy Cultists with Autoguns any more so they could fill the ranged/battleline role and add differentiation from the loyalist side. Stick some new Mutilators in the style of the modern Obliterators in there alongside the Raptors and/or Bikers already mentioned and you've got a balance of different unit types which all actually need updating.

 

Still think it'll be Orks or Drukhari in 11th though.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Except Obliterators and Legionaries already have modern monopose minis from Shadowspear (and Legionaries have an even newer multipart kit), and Jump Lord is literally from the most recent Chaos release. None of those would be a good pick for inclusion.

 

Not to say they couldn't put together a valid CSM side, Terminator Lord needs a do-over so bring it in line with the modern sculpts, and in terms of core troops you can't buy Cultists with Autoguns any more so they could fill the ranged/battleline role and add differentiation from the loyalist side. Stick some new Mutilators in the style of the modern Obliterators in there alongside the Raptors and/or Bikers already mentioned and you've got a balance of different unit types which all actually need updating.

 

Still think it'll be Orks or Drukhari in 11th though.

A starter box doesn’t have to be full of all new kits.

 

you said that bikes and raptors weren’t brought to build a starter box around, i provided a reasonable example of one

[ThePenitentOne]

Whatever the faction, I like the Launch Box = 2 Combat Patrol +, Big box = 2 Combat Patrol, Intermediate Box = Less than 2 combat patrol, Beginner Box = Unit + HQ x 2.

 

 

[ZeroWolf]

5 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

Whatever the faction, I like the Launch Box = 2 Combat Patrol +, Big box = 2 Combat Patrol, Intermediate Box = Less than 2 combat patrol, Beginner Box = Unit + HQ x 2.

 

 

Can't see that  changing in a hurry, but I hope it's more like how AoS 4th handled it

[Redcomet]

On 1/11/2025 at 5:20 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

A starter box doesn’t have to be full of all new kits.

 

you said that bikes and raptors weren’t brought to build a starter box around, i provided a reasonable example of one

For a good number of years Launch boxes have been used to introduce new miniatures, and I don’t see that changing any time soon. 

[Craig]

I hope one day that GW introduce a new starter box in between editions that doesn't focus on space marines and instead has guard as the imperial faction. Eg:

11ed - SM Vs Orks

11.5 ed - mordians Vs gretchin

12 ed - SM Vs eldar

12.5 ed - catachan Vs exodites

 

I know there are loads of reasons it won't happen but it seems odd that so much lore is written from the guard perspective and there is quite minimal representation on the tabletop. If you are introduced to 40k through fiction (either BL or the upcoming Amazon shows) you are almost certain to have been introduced from a guard perspective. It would also allow GW to extend their 3 year edition cycle without hurting their sales graph too much as I'm sure most of us that buy the 1st starter would also but the second.

Just my wishful thinking.

[TheArtilleryman]

21 minutes ago, Craig said:

I hope one day that GW introduce a new starter box in between editions that doesn't focus on space marines and instead has guard as the imperial faction. Eg:

11ed - SM Vs Orks

11.5 ed - mordians Vs gretchin

12 ed - SM Vs eldar

12.5 ed - catachan Vs exodites

 

I know there are loads of reasons it won't happen but it seems odd that so much lore is written from the guard perspective and there is quite minimal representation on the tabletop. If you are introduced to 40k through fiction (either BL or the upcoming Amazon shows) you are almost certain to have been introduced from a guard perspective. It would also allow GW to extend their 3 year edition cycle without hurting their sales graph too much as I'm sure most of us that buy the 1st starter would also but the second.

Just my wishful thinking.

It’s not like there isn’t precedent for this as we had the box with the space wolves in and the Eldar vs dark Eldar box and the grey knights vs Eldar box and a bunch of others I can’t remember. 
 

I’d like to see something like Mantis do with Kings of War, where there are several different starter boxes always available with different faction pairings, so that people who don’t want say marines and tyranids will pick one up. I think they’d sell way more starter boxes that way.

 

I still think Catachans vs Orks would be an awesome box.

Edited January 13 by TheArtilleryman

[Craig]

4 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It’s not like there isn’t precedent for this as we had the box with the space wolves in and the Eldar vs dark Eldar box and the grey knights vs Eldar box and a bunch of others I can’t remember. 

Yes, very similar but those boxes were limited runs.

[TheArtilleryman]

1 hour ago, Craig said:

Yes, very similar but those boxes were limited runs.

Yeah, agreed. That’s why I like the Mantic approach to this. They have about five different starter boxes always available.

[Halandaar]

On 1/11/2025 at 4:20 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

A starter box doesn’t have to be full of all new kits.

 

Sure, it doesn't *have* to be, but also every new starter set for 40K since the very first one (2nd Edition in 1993) has been entirely composed of brand-new models, so it's not like they're going to break the habit now.

 

2 hours ago, Craig said:

I hope one day that GW introduce a new starter box in between editions that doesn't focus on space marines and instead has guard as the imperial faction. Eg:

 

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

It’s not like there isn’t precedent for this as we had the box with the space wolves in and the Eldar vs dark Eldar box and the grey knights vs Eldar box and a bunch of others I can’t remember. 

 

They don't even need to be dedicated starter boxes as such (i.e. with monopose/ETB minis), but I do wish they'd go back to those mid-edition battleboxes like Shield of Baal: Deathstorm and Sanctus Reach: Stormclaw, which were distinct from more modern ones like Blood of the Phoenix and Prophecy of the Wolf etc in that they included a softback copy of the full rulebook, so you could use them as a starter set.

[Xenith]

On 1/11/2025 at 4:20 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

A starter box doesn’t have to be full of all new kits.

 

Doesn't have to be, but has been since...3rd ed?

 

Instead of a refresh, how about a faction that's just lacking in models whatsoever? Thousand Sons might be an interesting one, depending on how the rumours of their robot unit pan out:

• very limited range of models including just 2, faction unique, non-character boxes/kits.
• model range heavily leans on AoS tzaangor, and we know GW are trying to cut down on models used cross-system - so these could be up for 40-k-ification of cutting completely.
• Rubric Marines and SOT's are ~14 years old now, and scaled to the old marine proportions. They could rescale the entire range by redoing just 3 boxes and the infernal master.
• Rumoured incorporation of daemons, and suggestion that daemon models are also old could be 2 birds with one stone time.  

[Khulu]

19 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Doesn't have to be, but has been since...3rd ed?

 

Instead of a refresh, how about a faction that's just lacking in models whatsoever? Thousand Sons might be an interesting one, depending on how the rumours of their robot unit pan out:

• very limited range of models including just 2, faction unique, non-character boxes/kits.
• model range heavily leans on AoS tzaangor, and we know GW are trying to cut down on models used cross-system - so these could be up for 40-k-ification of cutting completely.
• Rubric Marines and SOT's are ~14 years old now, and scaled to the old marine proportions. They could rescale the entire range by redoing just 3 boxes and the infernal master.
• Rumoured incorporation of daemons, and suggestion that daemon models are also old could be 2 birds with one stone time.  

Weren't Rubrics and SOT released alongside Magnus in 2017ish?

[DemonGSides]

Yeah we are just shy of a decade for those 1K sons updates which still feels crazy. 

 

They are a bit short tho, I will agree. 

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Khulu said:

Weren't Rubrics and SOT released alongside Magnus in 2017ish?

 

November 2016 along with the Wrath of Magnus campaign expansion in 7th edition.
Launch wave was Magnus, Ahriman, Exalted Sorcerers, Rubrics, SoTs and Tzaangors from AoS.

 

Since then TSons have gotten Tzaangor Shaman and Tzaangor Enlightened(/Skyfires) from AoS and Mutalith Vortex Beast from AoS/WHFB in 8th edition.

TSons also got the Infernal Master in 9th edition.

 

Just now, DemonGSides said:

Yeah we are just shy of a decade for those 1K sons updates which still feels crazy. 

 

They are a bit short tho, I will agree. 

 

The crests keep us (roughly) in scale.

Edited January 13 by Indy Techwisp

[DemonGSides]

Yeah they don't look as funky as say, BA assault terminators standing next to the new scale Leviathan Terminators.

But even the SOT next to a Leviathan Terminator kinda has a bit of the "Little brother" syndrome.

Edited January 13 by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Yeah they don't look as funky as say, BA assault terminators standing next to the new scale Leviathan Terminators.

But even the SOT next to a Leviathan Terminator kinda has a bit of the "Little brother" syndrome.

 

Yeah, we are a little short, but IMO we're not really in need of a refresh yet.
We're still "close enough" that we should be good for a while, so ideally we'd get our range expanded first.

[Xenith]

32 minutes ago, Khulu said:

Weren't Rubrics and SOT released alongside Magnus in 2017ish?

 

Yea, sorry I was thinking of 2014, not 14 years ago. I remembered them being a couple of years before 8th ed, which was 2016?

[Tawnis]

While I certainly think it's possible, I think there are a few other solid possibilities too, I'd consider Chaos 3rd most likely ATM. 

 

1. Drukhari: They could certainly use a fair few new models to add to their range. They haven't been a starter enemy since 3rd edition. The lore's really been building up Jaghatai as the next returning Primarch and having them front and center in the setting would be an obvious setup for his return. 

2. Orks: While newish, the Boyz kit is much maligned and even if we only get a different push fir kit, I think people would still appreciate the bit more variety. There are a few more that could certainly use glow ups like the Lootas and Storm Boyz as well, plus whatever new stuff comes out for them. 

3. Chaos: I think they could do an expansion to the Chaos Cult side of the army for this, harkening back to their intro in 6th. New ranged cultists as well as some more support for that part of the range. Could pair them with some Deamon vehicles that aren't piloted by CSM. 
 

[Aarik]

On 1/13/2025 at 6:25 AM, Xenith said:

Rubric Marines and SOT's are ~14 years old now

 

I thought we had rules against personal attacks like this?! And from a mod no less...  Just about gave me a heart attack!

 

I've heard the rumor that it will be orkz and I think it makes a lot of sense.  Despite new boyz coming out recently, I think they could still do with a refresh, and people will appreciate having a good set of ETB ones widely available for cheap.  And I wonder if the recent ETB ones could have been some sort of test for new ones in a starter set..  As people mentioned above there are a lot of other units that could do with a refresh, and GW could make some great kits for them.  I think it is also nice that, in addition to having a good number of kits to update, the rest of the range has been recently refreshed, so new players won't have to deal with other older kits.  Orkz are also inherently very different from space marines stylistically, so it will be easier to differentiate the two armies in the box.  Like the deathguard coming with a ton of poxwalkers because otherwise it would just be SM on SM.

 

On the SM side, I predict we'll get new intercessors in 11th, like how they recently redid the stormcast.  They may make them more tactical squad-like as part of an effort to consolidate the units, but I think they'll get a new kit because so much space is wasted by having all those now-useless different magazine/scope options.  If you take those out, you could easily fit sergeant weapon options for example.  I could also see GW going back to redo some of the other initial releases too, especially the gravis ones like aggressors and inceptors (but that might be my own personal bias showing).  GW's at the point where they're caught between realistically needing to shrink the SM range somehow while also needing "new" units to fill the starter set and accompanying release, similar to where I would imagine stormcast were too, so I could see a similar approach here.

 

It's not as likely, but I could also see thousand sons being a longshot pick.  They had the misfortune of coming out right before the rescaling wave really took off so they're a bit shorter, and also have so few unique kits.   So GW could put out effectively an entirely new range/army with just the normal starter box faction model allotment.

[Redcomet]

Votan could also be an option. Would boost their army significantly to get a handful of new kits.

 

Drukhari also. Refreshed warriors and wytches, even though they still look amazing. Would enable them to perhaps make a plastic beast master set and new grotesques.

 

A brand new army. Exodites if they are brave. 
 

For Space Marines we will for sure see new Intercessors. Probably also Vanguard Vets and Assault Terminators. An Ancient version of the Redemptor, with more bling and a new weapon option. 

[Dark Shepherd]

Orks are a good fit for 11th as they fit in to the rough shape of bad guys, newby friendly, refresh friendly, and existing popularity

 

But thats the end of the xenos options IMO

 

So chaos for 12th seems a good call to me. DG have been done, Sons clash too much colour wise with Ultramarines, EC/Slaanesh is probably too saucey...so World Eaters and Khorne Daemons for 12th ed launch box?

 

Red v Blue, melee v shooting, bad guys etc

 

Maybe generic chaos but with things like Beastmen, evil robots

Edited January 16 by Dark Shepherd

[Dalmyth]

9 hours ago, Aarik said:

 

On the SM side, I predict we'll get new intercessors in 11th, like how they recently redid the stormcast.  They may make them more tactical squad-like as part of an effort to consolidate the units, but I think they'll get a new kit because so much space is wasted by having all those now-useless different magazine/scope options.  If you take those out, you could easily fit sergeant weapon options for example.  I could also see GW going back to redo some of the other initial releases too, especially the gravis ones like aggressors and inceptors (but that might be my own personal bias showing).  GW's at the point where they're caught between realistically needing to shrink the SM range somehow while also needing "new" units to fill the starter set and accompanying release, similar to where I would imagine stormcast were too, so I could see a similar approach here.

 

So, I'm not quite sure how Deathwatch armies looked like in 8th or 9th with Primaris, but something I noticed with the index for 10th is that they consolidated a larger chunk of the Primaris options into about 4 sections. I wonder if that could be something we'll see in 11th to try and consolidate the Space Marine Codex slightly. On another note, I wonder if anything will get the Sacrosanct treatment and just be removed.