Emperors Children Emperor's Children Codex Discussion.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for the explanations - those are all good points. I'll have to take a closer look at fiends as should I ever decide to try carnival - I have the models, just not 3 squads worth.

 

Once you have weighed in on the 6 detachments, it might be worthwhile to talk about unit sizes, when to attach characters and the like... I think its an interesting topic to explore, but perhaps after you looked at the "ground rules" as it were.

 

And yeah, putting Fulgrim in is obviously puts a huge focus for the list as a whole, coming in at 20% of your points.  To put it in perspective, that's essentially 3 maulerfiends or 3 noise marine units without characters.

 

Interesting to see where the codex draws your interest - rapid evisceration is probably the last detachment I would go to, as (as noted above) I'm wary of army rules that can be turned off by an opponent's targeting choices.  It may also be that my very first army was (almost) all mounted, and not a particularly good one at that (sisters of battle in 3rd and 4th ed) and that may colour my perception.  That, and rhinos (and variants) not being something I particularly enjoy painting.

 

Rather, my own first choice is probably Mercurial, as I'm (probably unreasonably) drawn to rules that are easy to play and remember.  That is one detachment where a large squad of Tormentors has added attraction, being able to screen out enemy infiltrators (not that I face any of those) and then pick them up and redeploy them pre game through that one enhancement.  Outside of that, though, I'm surprisingly not attracted to full sized Tormentors - perhaps because I see them as my best opportunity to deviate from my large squad bias.

Edited March 14 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Sorry about the double post, but I've been having thoughts about transport tetris...

 

One thing that I intend to try out with this new codex is different unit sizes.  Historically, I have been very anti-MSU for my own armies, but of the view that others can do whatever they want.  I guess that comes from my 40K roots being in 3rd ed, when 10 man squads were generally viewed as being as fluffy.  That said, as I'm about to have to build a bunch of squads for a brand new army, I've been giving a lot of thought as to what the optimal squad sizes in the new codex.  This is in the context of the codex having 2 unit rules that are new to me (though not the game) - scouts and infiltrators.

 

Which brings me to thinking about transports, and brought me to notice that this codex brings a lot of interesting choices between scouts, different squad sizes, attaching characters, fire points and different transport capacities.  Note, I haven't really considered tormentors in my below analysis, as I think they are better infiltrating on foot.

 

A.  Now, the obvious choice is clearly infractors in rhinos, either as 2 small squads with or without characters.  At 12 capacity, both can have Lord Exultants and give the rhino a scout move.  That said, other than perhaps some plasma or screamer pistols, you don't really make use of the fire points.

 

B.  The other obvious choice is noise marines in a rhino, which you can put 2 in it - but without characters.  You can only shoot 1 squad's blastmasters out of it, though, so if you want to use it as a mobile bunker you might be better off only putting one unit per rhino, which does open you to also including a character.

 

C.  An interesting option is to buddy up a small squad of infractors and a squad of noise marines in a rhino.  This does allow you to put a character in 1 (but not both) squads, and allows you to make better use of the fire points than if it was all infractors (or double noise).  You do loose scouts with the rhino, though.

 

D.  Unlike the CSM landraider, ours has 14 man capacity, meaning its the only place you can put 2x noise marines with characters.  That said, it has no fire points and noise marines are unlikely to disembark and want to charge, so not the best synergy between the 2 units.  Its also a huge chunk of points - 630 by my math for vehicle and contents.

 

E.  You could also put infractors with characters in the land raider, though that doesn't make full use of its transport capacity, and since it isn't a dedicated transport it can't scout.  Given that scout essentially gives you the same range as the landraider's move-disembark-charge the cheaper rhino option is probably better.

 

F.  The obvious occupants for the landaider are the Flawless Blades, as its the only thing you can put them in - you can put in a full 6 man squad (or 2x 3) + Lucius.  That said, this is again a huge chunk of points - though a "mere" 460 without Lucius.  I suspect there are better ways of getting them where you want them, though, as one thing EC isn't short of is mobility.

 

In my view, the EC list does open up additional situations where there landaraider may be viable, but it still suffers from the huge cost it due to paying for its dual roles.  And, as for those roles, its the antitank half that is much harder to replicate in EC, so if its fielded I expect to see it more as a gunboat than as a battle taxi.

[HeadlessCross]

During list theory I hat the idea of two Rhinos with 5 Infractors + Exultant and a squad of Noise Marines, and then a Rhino with just 5 Infractors and then Noise Marines + Kakophonist. 

 

Main issue is you don't get to scout and mobility is king, so not sure if that's the correct route I'll do for the first game I play with it. 

4 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

F.  The obvious occupants for the landaider are the Flawless Blades, as its the only thing you can put them in - you can put in a full 6 man squad (or 2x 3) + Lucius.  That said, this is again a huge chunk of points - though a "mere" 460 without Lucius.  I suspect there are better ways of getting them where you want them, though, as one thing EC isn't short of is mobility.

Based off how points and killing potential are, you can run Lucius without Flawless Blades, but you can't run Flawless Blades without Lucius. 

[Nephaston]

3 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Based off how points and killing potential are, you can run Lucius without Flawless Blades, but you can't run Flawless Blades without Lucius. 

You can, they just suck.

 

Another idea for Lucius is to just have him footslog next to a wingless daemon prince, since the daemon prince gains Lone Operative when next to a slaanesh infantry unit, and lucius get's it when not leading, so they can stroll into the enemy lines holding hands <3

[Sume]

I am new here myself.  I am not really used to or like MSU style of play.  Coming from 3rd edition.  Then mainly playing Sisters of Battle.  It was nice to run 5 man dominion squads finally to capitalize on the immolator though.

My only games of 10th so far been at LVO 40ks double narrative event.  Were the meta seemed MSU infantry, and wall of high toughness tanks.  Like me and my friend faced 7 of the 9 Imperial/Chaos knights armies.  Only reason we didnt draw all 9 is the 2 on our faction.  

I am going to try MSU tormentors.  They seem better that way.  Also, helpful for scout screening and midboard control.

I think I was getting rules mixed up.  As I was like how to use the land raider for EC.  I honestly feel like its a trap.  Even for the flawless blades.  Expect it might be a good way to get them into combat.  As they're expensive.  

I am definitely going to try 2 or 3 rhinos out with Noise Marines in May for the Dallas 40k narrative game.  Maybe they'll fair well.  I might use 10 infrators inside a rhino also.  For the extra protection the hull gives.

[Progenitor]

The thing for Flawless Blades is that you need to get them into combat. If they're walking across the table, even though they're fast, losing even one on the way into combat massively eats into their lethality and makes it harder for you to not lose another model in combat if you do fail to kill something. The Land Raider does cover one of the objective weaknesses of the army in killing high toughness stuff, but yes, you'll also be sending it directly at the enemy to discharge the Blades if you take them (and let's face it, you're likely going to want to take them). 

[LSM]

20 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

C.  An interesting option is to buddy up a small squad of infractors and a squad of noise marines in a rhino.  This does allow you to put a character in 1 (but not both) squads, and allows you to make better use of the fire points than if it was all infractors (or double noise).  You do loose scouts with the rhino, though.

 

One thing I've seen suggested is to start a game with a LE + 5 Infractors in a Rhino, and then a unit of Noise Marines hanging out, having a smoke, by the back door.

 

Game starts, you Scout the Rhino forward, the Noise Marines hustle to catch up and embark, the Rhino rumbles forward. (The Noise Marines then wouldn't be able to disembark that same turn, of course.)

[Prot]

I love the detachments, but to be honest the transport one caught my attention the most. I doubt it will be 'meta' but I like it a lot. In my normal chaos armies I find Rhino's are my workhorse. They do a lot. They block, do actions, hog an objective, take over watch, etc. So this detachment has my style written all over it.

 

I will say though that although MSU is huge now, I am starting with two x10 with Lords attached. I want to maximize the HQ. I may change that later.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think our army really benefits from larger assaulting units, due to the way the thrill seekers rule makes it harder to pull off multicharges - so if there is any army to try larger melee units, I think its this one.  That said, that is an issue I'm still trying to puzzle out myself, so I look forward to hearing your experiences as you are almost certain to get multiple games in with EC before I play my first.

 

Also look forward to hearing about your use of the transport detachment, as its not one that I'm drawn to personally and I am interested in hearing a different perspective.

Edited March 20 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

I am pulling the E.C. out tomorrow. I've been frantically putting together everything I can every day after work. (I don't think the wife likes it much, but she understands the obsession!)

 

So this week I may not get to play that detachment. Something simple perhaps as I will just be playing what I can throw together (I hate to proxy too much our groups kind of try their best to play WYSIWYG).

 

 

[darkseren1ty]

The 2 glaring weaknesses I see in the EC codex are the lack of anti tank and no anvil units (I mean- you could argue the land raider and terminators fulfill those roles, but the price of the LR and the lack of synergy of the termies- plus cap size of 5- makes them less than ideal choices). 
 

I’ve been toying with the carnival detachment. 2 squads of daemonettes, a KoS. Lucius and a DP to hug each other.

4-6 squads of tormentors/infractors (4:2 ratio is my preference- total of 30 models), 3 squads of noisey bois each with LK. A LE to hang out with either a 10 man tormentor/infractor squad.
totals exactly 2000.

 

its very much a glass cannon list. But I’m hoping that the 5+ sustained noise marines can wipe the enemy big guns before retaliation.