Blog Sume's Emperor's Children

[Sume]

I decided to give up on Emperor's Children for anything narrative at 1k points.  As I couldnt come up with anything I was happy with.  I started lists thinking about the wave system in case it appears again Tacoma.  So 200/250/300 for each wave.  Nothing appealed to me.  

I finalized an Annihilation legion Necron list that does fit into 200 point waves with 600 of the main force on the table.  Should be rather fast to paint.  As last resort.  I'll pull out Slaanesh demons and figure something out there.  At least it will be easier to fiddle with as if they didnt change things up too much.  The entire thing will have native deepstrike.

[Sume]

Well, I ended up taking an Annihilation legion of Necrons to the Tacoma narrative.  It did reasonably well overall.  Especially considering I havent played necrons since 3rd edition.  The second day was not good though.  First game was against my friends Tyranid burrowing swarm that effectively tabled me turn 2 but we decided to get a game against each other.  As in the narrative at that point. We where actually trying to get imperial players to fight against each other.  Then my last game was against a guy that was using Black Templar bragging about how his army has been unbeatable since he been playing.  That turned out to be very quickly apparent why.  With his interruption of rules, and only applying benefits or penalties that helped him.  Needless to say a terrible table experience for me.  By that point I was too tired and exhausted to really care anymore.  The Tacoma narrative ended up using the Armageddon crusade rules which most people avoided due to well extra book keeping in an all ready limited time, and the fact that the TOs really couldnt do the 3rd faction or Khorne demons like its supposed to do.

I tossed around what to bring to the Alanata Grand Narrative.  I thought it be great to bring Sisters of Battle as that is my favorite faction.  We did find out that the last games can be up to 2k points.  Then I went back and forth with Necrons.  Life happened and I decided that I dont really want to paint a full 2k sister list from near scratch and there are things I want to change up with the Necrons but dont really know what.  That I decided well we got the 1500 points of EC done all ready.  Why not just change some things up.  Only probably need to paint any where from 500 to 1k worth of points, vs Sisters going to be need around 1500, and Necrons the same.  Despite the Necrons willl be the fastest to do overall with a sandstone theme.

I am fairly certain for crusade you cant switch detachments around.  Which leave me with 2 viable options I like.  The first being the demon ally detachment and then the rhino detachment.  Lessons learned from TX is Noise Marines really need a transport.  Terminators at 1k where a very strong option but got focused down the turn after they came down.  Helldrake, well it was a flop.  So, I think its going to stay home.  With the points  updates I am waiting for things to get updated but have that in mind trying to sort lists.

Things I am brainstorming are make a 1k list then evolve it into a 2k list.  The 1k list needs to be able to stand on its own.  Then the 2nd part would be good if it can do so also, as to gather experience in the narrative.  Unless I use demons then that means they dont get experience.  Which might make the second 1k list easier or harder to build around. If points work out I can switch in units from the second 1k list to the first 1k list.  Thats actually how I designed my sisters list.  Time a unit got to 5 exp, it was effectively not going to get much more benefits in a 5 game crusade.  It was designed to be able to switch in units from the second 1k to also get 5 experience.  So when it went to 2k.  Everything was at least leveled some.  This thought is going to be extremely hard to do with EC I think.  As I am going to be some what limited on my choices for some things due to it being out of stock.

At least this is what I'll have to mess around with:  These are considering full squads if not mentioned.

2x LE

1 Hell turkey

1 mauler fiend

4 rhinos

1 land raider

4 units of demonettes

2 keeper of secerts

2 seekers or 1 big unit (can get up to 10 more, that need rebased and repainted in areas)

20 tormentors

20 infractors

2 sorcerors (not a fan in NM)

3 Noise marines

2 terminators

2 flawless blades

1 lucius, 1 finecast lucius (looks so tiny}

2 LK (going to convert out of infractor bodies, tired of waiting)

3 possible demon princes with wings (need rebased, and repainted in areas to match current theme)
1 Shelaxe (dont feel like named characters, applies to Lucius)

2 fiends (also would need rebased and repainted in areas to match current theme)

2 spawns

Edited September 14 by Sume

[Tallarn Commander]

Thanks for the game summaries!

[Sume]

Well toying around with things. I like this 2k list.  Doubt its very good but shrug right?  I noticed overall narrative games from TX and WA where more light hearted and not as competitive.  With the ones in WA being more netlist but it was also around double the people than TX.  



I realize points are currently off on this.  Since KoS is -10 points, LK is +10, Land raider is - 20, and the seekers are -10.   Which currently has this priced at 2020.  With the adjustments of course it is actually 1990.  Guess one of the characters could have Dark Blessings to use up the points.
 

Keeper of Secrets (310pts): Warp Walker, Phantasmagoria, Snapping claws, Witstealer sword
Lord Exultant (80pts): Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Phoenix power spear, Plasma pistol
Lord Kakophonist (60pts): Screamer pistol, Power sword

10x Daemonettes (90pts)
10x Daemonettes (90pts)
10x Daemonettes (90pts)
10x Infractors (160pts)
5x Tormentors (85pts)

5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
6x Noise Marines (145pts)
5x Seekers (90pts)
2x Chaos Spawn (80pts)
Chaos Land Raider (240pts): Armoured tracks, 2x Soulshatter lascannon, Twin heavy bolter
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter

The hard part I think would be breaking it down into 1k lists that fit.  Expect I think I did manage to do that for at least one list.  

Looks like this one does indeed break down into 1k.  Problem is getting the warpwalker on the KoS though.  

Keeper of Secrets (280pts): Phantasmagoria, Snapping claws, Witstealer sword
Lord Kakophonist (60pts): Warlord, Screamer pistol, Power sword

10x Daemonettes (90pts)
10x Daemonettes (90pts)
5x Tormentors (85pts)

5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
6x Noise Marines (145pts)
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter

Then the 2nd half:  Only way to actually get the points for the KoS and Warpwalker

Lord Exultant (80pts): Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Phoenix power spear, Plasma pistol

10x Daemonettes (90pts)
10x Infractors (160pts)

5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
5x Seekers (90pts)
2x Chaos Spawn (80pts)
Chaos Land Raider (240pts): Armoured tracks, 2x Soulshatter lascannon, Twin heavy bolter
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter

I just cant get the points to break down from the 2k list to make 2 viable 1k lists.  That's probably not too much of a deal breaker though.  As anything that is demon is not going to get exp.  I suppose I could have the tormentors, be swapped in for the spawn and what not.  Of course the easiest swap would be terminators for terminators.  The problem is the NM and LK dont really swap well for a infractor squad and EL.  Guess if swapping things out.  The KoS could easily be replaced for the land raider.  Then the swap for the Infractors  and El would be easier.  It looks possible.  That match that the KoS, NM, LK where swapped for the LR, EL, and Inf would leave me down some points but guess that would be okay.  Then when it goes to 2k.  Easily put warpwalker on the big cow lady.  I tried to make it so, the KoS started with it but I cant find a way to do it.  

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Personally, I'm finding 1000 points very challenging for EC - though, I think that may in part be that I'm finding EC quite challenging.  Its one of the reasons I've decided to swap playing Conceited Coterie for Mercurial Host, as is that at that point level I am finding Coterie's "vowed kills" special rule more of a hindrance than help, and its stratagems are kind of lack luster.  I am interested in running Carnival, but it just seems too fragile for the 1000 point games I've been playing.

 

The point changes help Carnival, but are slightly negative to everyone else (unless they run landraiders).  Personally, I think the Lord Kakaphonist is still a good deal at 70 points such that I would never choose a sorcerer over one.  However, with with no real other options and only it and the sorcerer in the army that cost less than 80 points, that 20 points increase across my 2 models means that I need to drop a unit to make that up  (as I have no wargear I can remove to make up the points)  So, even that slight point cost increase, while reasonable for the unit in question, felt like an overall nerf to an army that (I feel) is struggling given our paucity of options and limited flexibility in tweaking points by swapping units.

 

I think your 2 1000 point list look fine, though personally I would want a unit of tormentors in each of them (recognizing that you only have 1).  I feel your main obstacle in making them work is trying to fit the Warpwalker enhancement onto the LE - take it off and you are fine.  Personally, I think it is over pointed and you don't need the auto-6 advance with a transport (that said, I think warpwalker is great on the keeper).  I do think the keeper is better in your infractor list than your noise marine one, as you want multiple melee threats so they can't just focus down one of them... but that makes that list 10 points over with the points changes, even with taking off warpwalker.  Other than swapping out the demonettes for another unit of seekers (which you may not have), I don't see how to get the points, though, and keep the mix of demons and marines you want.  I guess you could swap the terminators out for something else, but I don't know what.

 

 

Edited September 15 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Sume]

5 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Personally, I'm finding 1000 points very challenging for EC - though, I think that may in part be that I'm finding EC quite challenging.  Its one of the reasons I've decided to swap playing Conceited Coterie for Mercurial Host, as is that at that point level I am finding Coterie's "vowed kills" special rule more of a hindrance than help, and its stratagems are kind of lack luster.  I am interested in running Carnival, but it just seems too fragile for the 1000 point games I've been playing.

 

The point changes help Carnival, but are slightly negative to everyone else (unless they run landraiders).  Personally, I think the Lord Kakaphonist is still a good deal at 70 points such that I would never choose a sorcerer over one.  However, with with no real other options and only it and the sorcerer in the army that cost less than 80 points, that 20 points increase across my 2 models means that I need to drop a unit to make that up  (as I have no wargear I can remove to make up the points)  So, even that slight point cost increase, while reasonable for the unit in question, felt like an overall nerf to an army that (I feel) is struggling given our paucity of options and limited flexibility in tweaking points by swapping units.

 

I think your 2 1000 point list look fine, though personally I would want a unit of tormentors in each of them (recognizing that you only have 1).  I feel your main obstacle in making them work is trying to fit the Warpwalker enhancement onto the LE - take it off and you are fine.  Personally, I think it is over pointed and you don't need the auto-6 advance with a transport (that said, I think warpwalker is great on the keeper).  I do think the keeper is better in your infractor list than your noise marine one, as you want multiple melee threats so they can't just focus down one of them... but that makes that list 10 points over with the points changes, even with taking off warpwalker.  Other than swapping out the demonettes for another unit of seekers (which you may not have), I don't see how to get the points, though, and keep the mix of demons and marines you want.  I guess you could swap the terminators out for something else, but I don't know what.

 

 

I agree with all your points.  I fiddled with things trying to get warwalker on the KoS and it was always over.  I think Carnival is only better at 2k points.  Only games I had with it was at 1k and that was trying to downsize what I thought was supposed to be a 1500 point list into 1k points.  I suspect the 2nd terminators unit could be replaced with the mauler fiend.  That I think covers the point costs trying to get warpwalker on the KoS.  I really didnt want the KoS with the noise marines.  I tried to make a 1k list at first and was coming into roadblocks like 10 points over etc. Why I tried to start with 2k and break it down into 2 separate 1k lists that could work.  Points just dont work well like I did it with my Sisters of battle list.  Which each 1k list was really swap a unit of nundans, battle sisters and sacrants out before it went to 2k to gather experience. 

I also agree with you on the points of Coterie.  I think why Coterie came out the gate so strong is the fact the meta at the time.  Not sure if it is still that way.  Used a few throw away units as blockers, infiltrators and or just chaff to muck up the board.  Which allows Coterie a slew of easy kills to get the ball rolling.  I am not a fan of the Coterie over all.  The two detachments that initially stood out to me are Carnival and the transport detachment.  I wanted to try Carnival out first, as I was going to just mix in all ready painted slaanesh demons.  Then I decided I wanted to change up the demon cloth, and hair.  Along with forgetting the exact way I painted the bases.  It was meant to be a quick jump point back in April to get ready for Texas.   Now as for the rhino detachment.  In 40k I like to be a tread head and dislike not having transports and tanks around.    I'll see if I can get a few 1k lists going with that one. Also, I do agree Mercurial Host looks interesting too.

Regardless I think I am going to need to grab 1 or 2 of the "demon princes" from my rather large force of Slaanesh demons.  Repaint any armor, hair and cloth to match and rebase them to match.  With having 17/22 datasheets.  It's the lack of variety that I think kills EC overall.  I was hoping with the September update, we would have gotten access to maybe hellbrutes, defliers, predators (jokes aside) or heck even a noise marine detachment that turns them back into battleline.    I dont get why out of the 4 chaos cultists books.  Noise marines are the only ones not battleline.  Oh well I suppose. 

I been on the fence with EC really since Texas as I think it still needs some more time to cook.  I also, really liked the idea of bringing Sisters to the grand narrative finale as the results will become official GW lore in the future.  For my peace of mind though and time constraints.  I need to either do Necrons, Slaanesh demons or EC.  With Slaanesh demons I dont really know the current state of affairs and with EC hey at least I all ready got some sort of feel for how it plays. 

[Sume]

I wonder if I was too quick to dismiss some of the other detachments.  Mercial Host seems really strong as a defensive buff.  Then the Pearless bladesmen seems really strong too.  I wonder if the extra attack will actually helped out the flawed blades and make them actually scary.  

[Sume]

I came up with this to fiddle with. Dont mind the weapon loadouts as I didnt bother to check and tweak it while trying to figure things out.  I really dont want to character spam but seems EC really needs to do so.  I wanted to use the spawn and 1 more unit of tormentors.  Not sure if I want the WDP but shrug right.  Things I thought be interesting was a 2nd land raider but I dont own a second one, so not included.  I didnt add a third LE as I dont have one.  Unless I convert the old Lucius.  Which I might do so if I decide its warranted.  Didnt break it down into 2 separate 1k lists yet. Who knows if it will break down evenly anyways.  I included the LR as its all ready painted.  I am not sure if I want the hell turkey but it is also all ready painted.

 

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh with Wings (225pts): Warlord, Distortion, Hellforged weapons, Infernal cannon
Lord Exultant (80pts): Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Phoenix power spear, Plasma pistol
Lord Exultant (80pts): Bolt pistol, Close combat weapon, Phoenix power spear, Plasma pistol

5x Infractors (85pts)
5x Infractors (85pts)
5x Tormentors (85pts)

5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
5x Chaos Terminators (170pts)
6x Flawless Blades (220pts)
6x Noise Marines (145pts)
6x Noise Marines (145pts)
Chaos Land Raider (220pts): Armoured tracks, 2x Soulshatter lascannon, Twin heavy bolter
Maulerfiend (130pts): Maulerfiend fists, Lasher tendrils
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter
Chaos Rhino (80pts): Armoured tracks, Combi-bolter

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think, in addition to the reasons you give, that Coterie was the most popular detachment on release is that it has a huge potential upside that (on paper, anyway) is rewarding you for doing what you already want to be doing, in addition to it being a highly thematic and "flashy" ability.  I guess its just easy to forget that there may not be a lot of units to kill (certainly often the case for me, with typically fewer than 10 units per side in my games).  As well, with it triggering at the beginning of the turn, you aren't getting any benefit until turn 3 (unless your opponent screws up and you can kill something turn 1) at which point (from my experience) most 40K games are basically over.  So its something that, except perhaps with tournament style terrain layouts, gives you very little in exchange for the opportunity to kill your own character and some lackluster stratagems.  Plus, its kind of a "win more" ruleset (in that it does better if you do better) where I personally prefer "lose less" rules that help keep me from falling behind or help me when I'm are doing poorly.

 

That said, a lot of the detachment abilities are poorly thought out and/or implemented (not too surprising with a 1st time book, so while I'm critical of them I'm not bitter), with Slanneshi's Chosen being probably the worst if conceptually interesting.

 

Carnival is, IMHO, the most interesting of them, with decent detachment rules and some great equipment, but probably requires more skill (in positioning and hiding units) than I have... certainly, I don't think I can get the resiliency I need at 1000 points to prevent my shooty opponents from simply killing the right units and shutting off my detachment ability.

 

The Transport one seems good, but not the way I want to play EC - I played my sisters that way as my primary army in 3rd and my secondary army from 4th to 7th, so I don't really want to recreate that playstyle - hindered by me not enjoying painting rhinos (or the rhino model when painted) very much.  Again, this is another detachment where the enemy can kill you out of your army rules, which I'm wary of.  You seem more of a treadhead than I am, though, so if you try it out I'd love to hear about it.

 

I dislike Peerless Blademen's complete focus on melee, given that we actually don't have that many really potent melee units.  Plus, I think noise marines are one of our better and most iconic units, and I want to try to make those work - and I feel this list punishes me (or at least doesn't give me any benefit) for doing that.  Flawless Blades certainly have gotten better (in that they are 33% more killey for the same points), but I can't say yet whether than makes them or Peerless Bladesmen a good choice now - I suspect not, but I'm not really going off of anything here but my gut feeling.

 

I think demon princes are one of our better units, so I think your army will benefit from stealing some of those from your demons.

 

Your 2000 point list seems to be 20 points over, but it seems a good pool of units to build an army out of.  Personally, though, I'd want another 5 tormentors as I think you really want 2 objective grabbing units - that said, I'm used to playing CSM where doing that costs 1/2 as much.

 

I too am not a fan of how hero centric this codex seems to be wanting us to be, but given the choice between a LE and a LK, I think the latter is more powerful - but does prevent you from putting 2 units of noise marines in a single rhino.  That said, at some point I want to try putting noise marines and infractors in the same rhino, with a character in one of the 2 squads - you loose the infractors' scout ability, but it still seems like a decent combo, especially when you can't fire more than 2 blastmasters out of the rhino anyway.

 

Let me know how using the landraider goes for you - even with the points drop, I'm still really wary of it, giving their conflicting roles and wondering whether even 4 lascannons is worth that cost for the antitank they bring.

 

Finally, as to for the heckturkey, I too have one but even with its better rules in our codex, I don't know what it does other than be a big target.  I should probably try it out some day, but its hard when I really think I'm better off with another maulerfiend (or something else - its really easy to spend points in this codex) instead.

 

Wow... that's rather more of a wall of text than I intended - sorry about that.

Edited September 17 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Sume]

It's all good. I think as a player base everyone is still trying to figure out this mini codex. The problem is the 17/22 datasheet issue. Weirdly noise marines being alternative havocs and a change from their prior origins.

 

Then there is still our issue of lack of variety. Most of the characters are the only good thing. Why competitive lists are like 2 to 3 winged demon princes, 2 to 3 LE and same for KL. Which essentially leaves the book feeling like diet world eaters and from a combined arms stand point diet death guard. 

 

Glancing around at different lists there's really no variation even if a different detachment is chosen.  I really like carnival of excess. Only decent lists I seen. Just run 4 units of demonettes and then the rest is practical the same. 5 man Infractors to deliver LEs into combat and be ablative wounds. Then noise marines and Tormentors. 

 

As I am not a super hyper competitive 40k player. I try to explore the lesser used options. I am thinking I am going to need to steal the demon princes even if I don't want to.  That or try to get some of the new ones.

 

I did notice the list I brain stormed up is 2k on the dot and it's supposed to be peerless blades.  I looked at the Rhino detachment and there really wasn't much to do more with the damage output once you get out and try to survive to jump back in.  Also don't like the enchantment you need to be shot at to get back in. 

 

Slaaneshs chosen needs tweaking. I don't like coterie and murical host is mostly defensive.  Where this army doesn't feel like it knows what it wants to be. 

 

Going to bounce peerless bladesmen around for a bit I think. LR even with the point reduction doesn't feel the best but only actual long range damage.  Flawed blades I think are too fragile and are essentially diet 8 bound. 1 attack each probably is what they needed. Also, maybe a little point decrease on spawn or something let the point increase to the best units feel better.

 

Edited September 18 by Sume

[Sume]

After much brainstorming and chatting with people on my local game shop's discord.  I feel that in my time frame paint crunch.  With seasonal depression going to be kicking in too.  I would be best to try for a Carnival of Excess list for the Grand Narrative.  

My first thoughts for Carnival is a pure melee detachment, expect honestly that I think falls more into Rapid Egress and Peerless Bladesmen honestly.  Carnival seems to be deceiving in the fact it appears more like a shooty horde army.  Since you can get some very nasty synergy out of NM, LK and demonettes hanging close to act as screens or blockers.  Problem is we only get 2 NM, and LK at 1k points and 3 at 2k.  I'll brain storm some more lists up.  Thinking that even if I was to try and squeeze in 2 NM units for 1k.  I need the rhinos, as I found NM are just too squishy and need that extra range to be a threat.  With the detachment you have the option of re-deep striking or moving with the speed of the demonettes if the NM need to reposition.  That I think I wouldnt want to go any less then 3 demon units at 1k.  I want to do double rhino, LK, and NM but thats nearly 600 points.  So, not very practical in terms of trying to fit in other things to the list.  Also, 1k you dont have as many units to grab the objectives.  So, I see tormentors are going to be a must.  They where something I was lacking in TX. 

 

Then other combos I see is a KoS, with a DP, WDP, maulerfiend, terminators, Infractors with LE, or flawed blades (can use the same thing with any of the demon units really) these units are picked for the pure speed to keep up with the KoS or deepstrike in.  That if you managed to wipe out a unit, for 1 CP a EC unit can charge again, and since your out of phase charging, the opponent cant overwatch (assuming they havent done so all ready) to charge a 2nd unit.  Obviously best thing in this combo is the KoS and WDP.  The WDP slams for mortal wounds, the KoS, finishes off whatever it is.  Then the WDP charges again to do more MW and fights.

While people are not fans of the terminators.  I will probably still use them as 1 less unit I dont have to paint.  I wonder how effective a land raider would be at 1k.  If I want with a LR it would need the terminators or Flawed blades and in that list idea.  The NM and KL probably stay out.  I guess the KL could go in the land raider with the terminators if I am really in need of characters and try to be more of a melee focused force.  Like I said before I play 40k pretty causal.  I also think EC look very weak on paper though. At least I like that 40k is no longer all about how effective you can kill your opponent.  While it helps.  I think you need that speed and mobility to play the objective game.  I have the feeling if I can get a good quick point grab in the early turns.  I have a good chance of just scoring too much VP early on to be caught up to.  Even if I get tabled.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I think the terminators and landraider are both too expensive for 1000 points, especially for carnival where you are essentially needing to split your models between two forces.

 

I've been thinking of your list, I ran a "1 of everything"-ish list through new recruit.

 

So, 1x LE, 1x LK, 1x 5 infractors, 1x 5 tormentors, 1x 6 noise marines, 1x 10 demonettes, 1x 5 seekers and a rhino is 715 points.  Personally, I think that makes for a decent start to a list, but you might swap out some things for other units when making the hard choices.

 

For the remaining 285 points, you could field another 6 noise marines without LK and a rhino and throw the LE + infractors in there with them (in your first turn, even, allowing you to scout the rhino, the on the first turn move the noises and embark, then move the rhino.  That leaves 60 points that you could then use for enhancements.

 

1000 points really doesn't give much room beyond the essentials, so I don't think one can really fit in more than 2 demon units and just have to be really careful in screening them with vehicles and terrain to keep them alive.  Personally, the "charge in the fight phase" strategem is kind of a pipe dream - its very nice if you can do it, but the stars basically need to line up perfectly for that to happen, that I think the times when you wipe out a unit with your demons (which at 1000 points, none are very killy) before your marines fight, have an unengaged marine unit in range, and that marine unit is in range to charge is kind of too rare to count on.  Nice to have the strategem when that does occur, but not something I would build my army around happening.

 

I do suppose you could do a "big boys" list with a demon prince and Lord of Secrets as you mentioned (which are kind of the best case for that stratagem), but that's half your points there for 1000 which doesn't leave much for killing the stuff you don't get them into combat with, or for doing stuff like scoring.

Edited Friday at 06:05 PM by Dr_Ruminahui

[Sume]

Ya, I had two route ideas.  The big bois, but I think is counter productive as most people are still going to be building to kill knights and the meta is measured around killing T4, 2W models.  

The list of running 1 of the basics everything through has come to mind a lot.  I wanted 2 NM squads, with LK and rhinos but you cant really fit that in and have anything else.  I think you need 3 squads of demons at minimum though.  Adding to the above list that leaves 195 or 185 if you turn the seekers into more demonettes.  With doing that, I could add terminators, and have some points left over, or go for a combination unit of tormentors, infractors and or spawn too. Expect I think you might as well sort of double down on what works for EC.  You can probably toss in a demon prince, and at this level might be what it needs.  That or a 2nd infractors with EL.  Thats what I been tossing around in my head.  Trying to fit in the maulerfiend and a third demon unit seems near impossible.  The maulerfiend I feel could do a lot of work against harder targets.  Expect bodies are probably king for board control especially at 1k points.

Now getting it to 2k is not as hard.  Since I can add in the stuff I want.

Edited Saturday at 12:32 AM by Sume

[Sume]

Messing around with the builder to sort of lock things in the army builder I came up with 3 sort of good working templates. Using what has proven to actually work in tournament lists with the limited unit rooster, some actual play experience and what I have gleaned from reddit and YouTube. 

 

First template I present is what I am going to call Chunki bois. Chunki bois here don't really have as good wiggle room, but with this one. Just going to drop all pretense at holding any objective and just try to straight up table the opponent.  Might work in a crusade.  The Maulerfiend would be better with the tentacles but I assembled mine with the cutters. I doubt most opponents would care if told it has tentacles instead.  I been playing since 2003 and 3rd edition so I always try to stick with wysiwyg. 

 

KoS

WDP

1 NM

1 Tormentor 

1 Rhino

1 demonette

1 Maulerfiend 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second template I feel is more balanced.

2 LE one with the blade

1 KL

1 Tormentor 

2 Infractors (can swap with Tormentor or even spawn instead)

1 NM

1 Rhino 

2 demonettes 

1 seekers

 

This template you can easily go 1 demonette, fiends and seekers.   That or any combo of the demonettes and seekers. Fiends while tougher seem neutered.  The demonettes are more for board control and screening then anything else. Paying 2 cp to redeploy is steep but can help out.  At 1k these demonettes are not going to be on the frontline.

 

With any list a smart opponent will quickly realize demons are empowering the EC and go for them instead. 

 

Now to sort of how to get it to 2k that I like. Easy enough to fill most of the points with more NM, Rhino, kl, kos, wdp, Maulerfiend and maybe more demonettes

 

 

The final one that I like the least.  Going to call it make some noise.  The most balanced one is as follows.  Has 50 leftover points with 1 enchantment since it's crusade.  So can't take a 2nd.

 

1 le

1 lk

2 NM 

2 Rhino

1 Tormentor 

1 Infractor 

2 demonettes 

 

That or drop the le and Infractor and get a 2nd lk and a Maulerfiend with 15 leftover.  This list I feel just too many dedicated points to buff and taxi the noise marines around with the party busses and demonettes to turn on crit and sustained 5.  It feels the worst of the 3.

 

Now the one I have only theory crafted around thinking about it. Is the one that just takes a kl, both terminators squads, Tormentors, some demonettes and fill up the gaps with a second Tormentors squad. Attempt to squeeze the landraider in the list. Just dropping the units that actually work.  Also, the second terminators could be replaced for some flawed blades.  The lk would be the warlord.  Doubt this is even a good idea but it shows how I try to think out of the box.

 

 

Edited Saturday at 07:51 AM by Sume

[Sume]

Well for the final brainstorm. I present the most ridiculous idea. Seems like the best breakdown of units I can do. One thing I am finding is EC makes odd points gaps at the end with 50 to 70 points.  That sorcerer doesn't get scout, infiltration or lone op, so it's in a terrible place unless you want a back field useless action monkey.  Wish there was an actual terminator lord or sorcerer but shrug. 

 

Anyway here is SnGiggles

 

Lk

Land raider 

2 Tormentor 

2 demonettes 

2 terminators 

 

You got 20 leftover for an enchantment unless you swap for seekers or spawn.  This I feel is a blunt force approach list that World eaters could actually pull off better using similar units or the basic chaos space marine book. I actually have a terminator sorcerer painted up. Just would need to repaint him to match.  I do have the csm codex and that actually might be a better book to use. That way could actually use a hellbrute or two. I have 3 with heavy bolter and fister.

Edited Saturday at 08:23 AM by Sume