New Sekhetar Guardian Robot Discussion

[Indy Techwisp]

Who manifested Tzaangor Robots?

 

 

 

=][= MOD EDIT =][=

 

Link to reveal

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/gsdzv0gh/chaos-ascends-with-new-units-and-codexes-for-khorne-tzeentch-and-nurgle/

 

I think we've all seen the adepticon previews by now, the Thousand Sons are getting a new robot/automata type unit, one rumoured through stories etc. I've attached the link and images below for your convenience. 

 

How do we think these will play in the game, and what's your overall impression of the models/unit idea? 

Edited March 31 by Xenith

[Ulfast]

I think they are ok but I do think GW could have done more with them. First I wanted bigger robots then smaller ones. Second they look like statues and we allready have that in our rubrics, I think we should had more dynamic models.

 

The third and that´s not against the robots but if we will get the same culling as EC got with what units we can use, then even if we get this new robots, we still have fewer units to build list with (and yes, I don´t count the daemons as new if they will be similiar to EC, only used in one detachment).

 

I will propably buy a unit or two (specially as one build is for close combat and second build is for shooting) but I do wish GW would have done more. We have been waiting since 2017 on new units and we got one ok unit, not several awsome. Sadly I think our cousins, WE and DG, feels the same.

[byrd9999]

The colour scheme is uninspiring, but that can be easily remedied.

I like the mix of TSons and Tzaangor, but glad they didn't lean more into the Tzaangor aspect.

I'm interested to see weapon load-outs. TSons are still not the best in melee, but I'll probably magnetise all the options anyway :)

 

edit: maybe the colour scheme is "Hey, we listened to the feedback on how hard/boring/frustrating the gold trim is, so here's an all bone theme you can use!"

Edited March 27 by byrd9999

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I can understand the criticism of these models though personally I like them a lot. The battleforce also seems like a really good way to start an army for new players. 

 

I do find it odd that they are classed as vehicles and not walkers. Still, if TS lose Predators and Vindicators (which is almost certain) then I suppose they need something for what seems like the obligatory vehicle Detachment. 

 

That we didn't see the special edition of the TS codex I'm guessing that makes them after DG and WE. At GW's incredibly slow pace I could easily the TS not releasing till late May or early June. 

[Tichinde]

they look fine, as others have stated the paint job does them no favours but I can see a blue/gold theme making them look waaaaay better.

 

 

[Ahzek451]

I'll echo my own thoughts in the rumor thread.

 

I see a lot of people people making comments akin to "tzaangor robots". I get it, but at the time.... no? They are adorned with bird heads, are these people new to Tzeentch or something? It's a Tzeentch thing, not a tzaangor thing. Welcome to Tzeentch asthetics. We like birds here. 

 

I can understand complaints about the stiff pose, but at the same time....they are automota. Its kind of fitting. Im cool with it. They look like watchful waiting. I'm sure they can be rebuilt into more dynamic poses or made to do so if a modeler really wanted. Hell, we havnt even seen the alts yet because they mention having heavy warpflamers and we havnt seen those. 

 

100% the paint job was horrible. Someone truly made a bad decision on that one and deserves a smack upside the head. If you really look close, a lot of the detail is covered by the crappy bone color. Throw the traditional blue and gold on it and I bet a lot of people would come around. 

 

Lots of complaints about size. I don't know but it doesn't bother me. I also wasn't expecting big models. If folks just examined the rumor mill closer they would see the bands on the leg edge highlights were thick and that would tell you that the part in the image wasn't very big. I've geussed as much in the past when people were trying to match which mechanicus robot this would relate to. 

 

On that note, too many people were trying to compare to the HH robots and that is a recipe to set yourself up for disappointment. I had no inclination that they were going to like the castellex achea. The evidence in the lore they provided months ago says as much. These bots predated the heresy. They are a much different kind of bot. I wouldn't want them to be similar anyway, I wanted something new. But that's just me. 

 

I'm happy to just have more machines, thousand sons have a mechanical penchant so this is great. 

 

Based on trends, I certainly didn't expect more than this but naturally, I sure as hell wanted to. GW does need a bit of scrutinization for this. Its been about 10 years since the refresh and what we have to show for it is an infernal master and robots. They could have thrown in at least 1 more new toy. The daemons are a long awaited welcome addition but now what will we lose akin to the EC?  It's like the monkey paw,  get a new unit, but at the cost of a ton of old units. But we will have to see.

 

I suppose that won't be long. They did say we were next in the 40k release cycle. 5 detachments. Somehow we lost 1 while everyone else got 6.

Just now, Ahzek451 said:

I'll echo my own thoughts in the rumor thread.

 

I see a lot of people people making comments akin to "tzaangor robots". I get it, but at the time.... no? They are adorned with bird heads, are these people new to Tzeentch or something? It's a Tzeentch thing, not a tzaangor thing. Welcome to Tzeentch asthetics. We like birds here. 

 

I can understand complaints about the stiff pose, but at the same time....they are automota. Its kind of fitting. Im cool with it. They look like watchful waiting. I'm sure they can be rebuilt into more dynamic poses or made to do so if a modeler really wanted. Hell, we havnt even seen the alts yet because they mention having heavy warpflamers and we havnt seen those. 

 

100% the paint job was horrible. Someone truly made a bad decision on that one and deserves a smack upside the head. If you really look close, a lot of the detail is covered by the crappy bone color. Throw the traditional blue and gold on it and I bet a lot of people would come around. 

 

Lots of complaints about size. I don't know but it doesn't bother me. I also wasn't expecting big models. If folks just examined the rumor mill closer they would see the bands on the leg edge highlights were thick and that would tell you that the part in the image wasn't very big. I've geussed as much in the past when people were trying to match which mechanicus robot this would relate to. 

 

On that note, too many people were trying to compare to the HH robots and that is a recipe to set yourself up for disappointment. I had no inclination that they were going to like the castellex achea. The evidence in the lore they provided months ago says as much. These bots predated the heresy. They are a much different kind of bot. I wouldn't want them to be similar anyway, I wanted something new. But that's just me. 

 

I'm happy to just have more machines, thousand sons have a mechanical penchant so this is great. 

 

Based on trends, I certainly didn't expect more than this but naturally, I sure as hell wanted to. GW does need a bit of scrutinization for this. Its been about 10 years since the refresh and what we have to show for it is an infernal master and robots. They could have thrown in at least 1 more new toy. The daemons are a long awaited welcome addition but now what will we lose akin to the EC?  It's like the monkey paw,  get a new unit, but at the cost of a ton of old units. But we will have to see.

 

I suppose that won't be long. They did show we were next in the 40k release cycle. 5 detachments. Somehow we lost 1 while everyone else got 6.

 

[Indy Techwisp]

5 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

I'll echo my own thoughts in the rumor thread.

 

I see a lot of people people making comments akin to "tzaangor robots". I get it, but at the time.... no? They are adorned with bird heads, are these people new to Tzeentch or something? It's a Tzeentch thing, not a tzaangor thing. Welcome to Tzeentch asthetics. We like birds here. 

 

I can understand complaints about the stiff pose, but at the same time....they are automota. Its kind of fitting. Im cool with it. They look like watchful waiting. I'm sure they can be rebuilt into more dynamic poses or made to do so if a modeler really wanted. Hell, we havnt even seen the alts yet because they mention having heavy warpflamers and we havnt seen those.

 

We like birds yes.

It's the combination of the beak, the goat legs and the awkward lankiness that triggers the Tzaangor PTSD.

 

I've seen someone saturate the colours on the paint scheme and it looks a bit better, but in general the sculpt looks like a kitbash.

Paragon Warsuit legs (my SoB playing friend commented that these stole their high heel mech feet), Ironkyn head, SOT rocket launchers and what looks like a Rubric chest plate blown up 1.5x in scale.

[Ulfast]

I do agree with you Ahzek451 that it´s good that it´s a complity new unit that has never been seen before. That´s intersting and with another paint work they will look better. They have grow a little under the day on me. 

 

But I also agree, in almot 10 years we really needed something more. Like a big robot, a "silver tower" monolith unit, a havoc scarab unit etc. It´s so much fun and intersting things GW could have done and they only gave us one unit. And right after that, BANG, SW got like 7 new units, another space marine chapter. That feels poorly from GW. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Do we think it's too early to start the "What do we need in 11th" thread yet?

[LSM]

5 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

I do find it odd that they are classed as vehicles and not walkers.

 

Did they say that they won't have [Walker], or only that they had [Vehicle]?

 

(Most walkers have the vehicle keyword as well.)

[Rain]

Reflecting more on my first impression of “eww, what the  is that?” I think that the main issue (as others have touched upon) is their legs. They are long and feminine, including a high heel element (why?!) and read like something that would work much better on a Slaanesh model. A pure blue/gold paint job may help, but it’s not fixing the overall lithe robo-Keeper of Secrets silhouette created by those long Sharon Stone legs.

 

I get what they were going for, Egyptian statue robots, but it just looks weird, like a kitbash, also to echo a prior poster.

[byrd9999]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Do we think it's too early to start the "What do we need in 11th" thread yet?

It'll be 11th Ed by the time we get to play with it!

[Ahzek451]

4 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

We like birds yes.

It's the combination of the beak, the goat legs and the awkward lankiness that triggers the Tzaangor PTSD.

 

I've seen someone saturate the colours on the paint scheme and it looks a bit better, but in general the sculpt looks like a kitbash.

Paragon Warsuit legs (my SoB playing friend commented that these stole their high heel mech feet), Ironkyn head, SOT rocket launchers and what looks like a Rubric chest plate blown up 1.5x in scale.

I'm not going to disagree on the feet. Could have made them less ....high heal-y. And like i said, I get the tzaangor feelings. Can't say it hit me the same way, Tzaangors having been in the lore since day 1 and the army unique chaffe was expexted. But I will point out, if it's chaos, bi-pedal, and a machine....its going to get double joints. (Chaos knights). Domed heads existed in the imperium  before votaan made it cool(or uncool). I'm happy to see the rocket launchers on other units. Its a t.sons special weapon. 

 

Different strokes for different folks. 

3 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Do we think it's too early to start the "What do we need in 11th" thread yet?

Lol, might as well.

[byrd9999]

What size are these models? From the picture I was expecting something like the Osiron Dreadnought, but comments on here make it sound smaller...?

 

Is there anything for scale?l

 

Edit: nvm, saw the Battle Force box art. Halfway between a Rubric Marine and the Osiron, but spindlier.

Edited March 28 by byrd9999

[Archaeinox]

I think being on 40mm bases, in unit size 2, can lead us to believe that a sorcerer can attach to them. There's not many precedents for a 40mm unit size 2 out there. I think they're about to turn TSons index on its head when this book drops.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Spawn come to mind as an example of 2 model 40mm base units that can't have characters (at least in CSM and EC), but they are otherwise different enough I don't think they are a valid indicator in this instance.

[byrd9999]

It would be nice if we also got a new T Sons Tech Marine Sorcerer to lead them.

 

What role will they fulfill, like a Helbrute?

[Ahzek451]

The are slightly bigger than a terminator, so I see them as a support unit. The descriptions makes it sound like they can hide and perch themselves in advantageous positions until needed. 

 

Hopefully the new ranged weapons don't hit like a wet noodle. If GW ends up ripping certain units away like they did for EC, it's going to make it worse. 

 

They supposedly have access to heavy warpflamers but we have not seen them with those buils yet.  

[Karhedron]

22 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

100% the paint job was horrible. Someone truly made a bad decision on that one and deserves a smack upside the head. If you really look close, a lot of the detail is covered by the crappy bone color. Throw the traditional blue and gold on it and I bet a lot of people would come around.

 

People have already been busy with photoshop and I think on balance you are right. They look a lot better in classic colours.

 

[Ahzek451]

30 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

People have already been busy with photoshop and I think on balance you are right. They look a lot better in classic colours.

 

 

[Archaeinox]

6 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Spawn come to mind as an example of 2 model 40mm base units that can't have characters (at least in CSM and EC), but they are otherwise different enough I don't think they are a valid indicator in this instance.

 

 

Spawn are on 50mm which is why I think these 2 new models being on 40mm is a big indicator that there's a lot we don't see coming our way. If these are intended to be tough, but dont look tough (Oblits are T7 and with W5 on 50mm bases), it makes sense that they might intercept hits on a sorcerer as described in the reveal live stream. That was oddly specific. Can't wait to see what happens

 

 

I have a ton of extra sorcerers that are included in my lists but often don't have Rubric Marines to join. If they can join terminators (Lord Kakophonis is the recent precedent?), or Sek'hetar, that's perfect.

 

Edited March 28 by Archaeinox

[Archaeinox]

36 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

 

this got me

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Ahzek451 said:

They supposedly have access to heavy warpflamers but we have not seen them with those builds yet.  

 

I thought these were the Heavy Warpflamers. (They've got what looks like a fuel tank, the classic "heavy = two barrels", and the nozzles remind me of the Helbrute's Heavy Flamer - plus bird-deco).

 

 

Granted they're weird, but their Meltas also look pretty weird...

 

//

 

10 hours ago, Archaeinox said:

I think being on 40mm bases, in unit size 2, can lead us to believe that a sorcerer can attach to them. There's not many precedents for a 40mm unit size 2 out there. I think they're about to turn TSons index on its head when this book drops.

 

Alex did say during the presentation: "One of their key features: they're psychically controlled bodyguards. They're threaded through with spells of prophecy, so they can essentially foresee attacks on their master, able to jump in the way of bullets or move them out of the way."

[Ahzek451]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

I thought these were the Heavy Warpflamers. (They've got what looks like a fuel tank, the classic "heavy = two barrels", and the nozzles remind me of the Helbrute's Heavy Flamer - plus bird-deco).

 

 

Granted they're weird, but their Meltas also look pretty weird...

I was taking a second look, they very could be some sort of long ranged flamers, but while I was inspecting I also saw the thing under the power claw. Looks like some sort of mini flamer maybe.

Edited March 28 by Ahzek451

[Archaeinox]

*cracks knuckles*

 

 

Well. I think knowing they are on 40mm bases instead of 60mm tempers my perception of their capabilities and also gives us a glimpse of what we might keep. For example, it would fill a role of a small robot bodyguard for a sorcerer to attach to, since it is at least Unit Size: 2 Models. As far as the glimpse, theres no way it provides fire support equal to an Obliterator unit (which are on 50mm bases, T7, 5 Wounds) so Sekhetar might not serve as replacement fire support if they take Forgefiends, Vindis and Preds from us. I think this role is what all of us expected, on a 60mm base platform. Even a unit of 4 on 50mm would have been strange. Would've been a unit of 3 to 6, or 5. 

 

As for rules, based on the reveal show alone, we are potentially looking at a massive amount of rules, strange for a minimum size 2 unit on 40mm bases:

 

1. Wound/hit interception for sorcerers under their protection

 

2. Varied armaments to include smol underslung flamers on fists, heavy warpflamers, melta gun (as per stream, but this could be a presenter mistake), some energy weapon with a copper colored battery pack, hellfyre missiles.

 

3. Concealing/protective wardings to allow for lying await in ambush. Deep Strike? Lone Op? 

 

4. Overwatch for 0cp. Lets assume you want to. Ok, so 2 of them Overwatch with their heavy warpflamers... is this really worth doing if you can plan to set up 10 Rubric Marines in a similar Overwatch threat position?

 

As for the unit design, I'm a huge fan. The different paint jobs we inevitably give them instead will change their overall feel dramatically. I like the concept. I will say that I think people have provided many good reasons for thinking they are a "miss" that I understand.

 

 

Final thought, I am pretty focused on the fact that these are on 40mm bases. I think this characteristic will be the baseline to which all my opinions of this unit are connected, until we see rules.

 

 

-Arch

Edited March 30 by Archaeinox