11th Edition What do we wish for in 11th Edition.

[Indy Techwisp]

Now we know what new unit we're getting in 10th edition, I'm making this thread so we can speculate on Next Edition's content for us without obstructing the 10th Edition Thread and 10th Ed Detachment predictions.

 

To start us off, I'll post this wishlist:

• Rubric Havocs
  Probably not actually named Rubric Havocs, but as the main "Shooty CSM" it seems weird we don't have a dedicated "Heavy Weapons Infantry" unit. Sure, all Rubric units can carry a Soulreaper, but there's more options than that for a proper heavy weapon squad to use such as Missile Launchers since we only have 1 source of Anti-Vehicle in the whole army.
   
• Khenetai Occult
  The TSons Assault Squad from HH. Probably would be reimagined somewhat in a move to 40k, but the idea of a Slow but Tanky Assault Squad is an idea that already has a functional presence in 40k (see: All Melee Deathguard). A Marine tier Melee threat is something our army lacks, even tho any version we get probably wouldn't be Battleline to maintain our "Shooty CSM" status.
   
• Ammitara Occult
  This is a Scout/Sniper unit. Obv Scout Armour wouldn't work for our dusty bois, but it could be reimagined as a unit of Sorcerers using their Psychic power to enhance their Sniper shots (or we get floating Scout Breastplates with Sniper Rifles which would be very funny).
   
• Rubric Praetor
  A non-psyker character for TSons is an odd choice, but having a Chaos Lord Equivalent in the army would be a neat force multiplier and would be a decent chassis to get some variant of the old "All is Dust" rule back into the army in the form of an attached unit buff.
   
• Numerologist
  TSons Technomancer. Probably a bit less useful now that we're probably losing our Tanks (<- delete if this doesn't happen), tho Land Raiders, Rhinos and those Robots would all benefit from a Techmarine analogue.
   
• A dedicated Thousand Sons Terminator Character
  Basically a Termie Sorc variant that's not just the alt. build of a CSM unit. In terms of what to do to make them different, the existing Termie Sorc is an Anti-Vehicle character (the only source of that keyword in our army) so maybe a more Anti-Infantry character would be appropriate?
   
• Non-Tzaangor Unique Cultists
  Yep, it's this again. Ideally some kind of Psychic Cultist unit so they can be used with our army rule.
   

If you have any comments on the above, or want to post a wishlist of your own, go ahead.
Hopefully we can manifest a proper wave for 11th.

[Archaeinox]

I wanted to take a while to contemplate on your post before commenting because I think my answer started off too complex to type up. I think a lot of my potential hopes align with the different ways Cabal Rituals could go, and how our sorcerers function currently vs. how Characters might function in 11. I'm a bit of a purist in that I think we should be able to slap down Rubrics and Sorcerer variants and just have them slap. So I think it's safe for me to sprinkle in some wishlisting about 11th itself.

 

Most of us end up with spare sorcerers who can't attach to squads. In a few additions past, there were ways to run various squads and benefit from being near units, if not outright attached to them. This made it more viable to run multiple characters whereas now if we have a surplus of characters running around, they don't even have Lone Operative. Tell me each Thousand Sons player can't at least build 1 or 2 sorcerers out of their bitz box right now.. Multiple fellas running around will help our army identity and Lone Op type abilities or otherwise protection from nearby squads will help them survive and blast their spells a little longer. Big gripe of 10th for me is 1 character tied to each squad, or not at all. 

 

I think I will edit this post more later. I am not a fan of the havoc rubrics or melee rubrics because I am thinking in their current statline/rules context. I do want other TSons fans to get exactly what they've hoped for. I just think more concentration by GW needs to be put on incentive for us to take a ridiculous amount of sorcerers to do our dirty work. If that happens in 11th, that's great. 

 

I would like to see more focus on Crusade and more thematic and effective terrain in 11th besides the currently encouraged "L". The 2nd part would heavily affect us haha. Every pick up game I play and every event I play boils down to "deploy my fully painted army out of line of sight." We paint these Thousand Sons miniatures to show them off dangit 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Archaeinox

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

When the 11th edition codex rolls around it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of 11/12 years since TS were introduced. Since then they'll have only had the Infernal Master and the Sekhtar Guardian Robots. What they need is a proper full second wave of miniatures. 

 

Their own unique Cultists (WE got Jackals and there silly KT unit after all) would be good. They also really need an Exalted Sorcerer in Terminator Armour. And of course a psyker Dreadnought, which could also make a good Daemon Engine. Speaking of, their own Daemon Engine really should happen. The DG have 3 and while EC/WE don't have any themselves yet there are lots for GW to draw on. 

 

I think you get those you've got a really good line. That said it would be good to see some more specialised Sorcerers given that TS are supposed to be the Sorcerer army. One that is based on summoning/boosting Daemons. Another that effects terrain perhaps? One that could be a Techmarine/Warpsmith equivalent and help out the robots and tanks. 

 

There is a lot of potential. 

[Indy Techwisp]

20 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

When the 11th edition codex rolls around it's going to be somewhere in the ballpark of 11/12 years since TS were introduced. Since then they'll have only had the Infernal Master and the Sekhtar Guardian Robots. What they need is a proper full second wave of miniatures. 

 

Their own unique Cultists (WE got Jackals and there silly KT unit after all) would be good. They also really need an Exalted Sorcerer in Terminator Armour. And of course a psyker Dreadnought, which could also make a good Daemon Engine. Speaking of, their own Daemon Engine really should happen. The DG have 3 and while EC/WE don't have any themselves yet there are lots for GW to draw on. 

 

I think you get those you've got a really good line. That said it would be good to see some more specialised Sorcerers given that TS are supposed to be the Sorcerer army. One that is based on summoning/boosting Daemons. Another that effects terrain perhaps? One that could be a Techmarine/Warpsmith equivalent and help out the robots and tanks. 

 

There is a lot of potential. 

 

I can't believe I forgot to include Psyker Dreadnaught on the list.

In regards to Daemon Summoning Sorc, that's technically what the Infernal Master is, but I'm holding out hope that we somehow gain the ability to use the Master of Possessions as well.

[Ulfast]

I would like some kind of shard of a silver tower kind of tank. That would be cool. Second is of course a psyker dreadnought but big. Sadly I believe the last one has gone as we now will get small silly robots instead. As several has said, it´s so much they can do and so far so little. Just in this thread they could find lot of inspiration.

[darkseren1ty]

I would like a magic swordsman type of squad. Like a flawless blades equivalent- maybe on discs of Tzeentch. They’re psykers, but they’re fast moving melee strikers able to counter hordes, elite infantry and monsters/tanks in combat

[Nephaston]

I'd love some TS Possessed/Eightbound, but it would take the writers/model designers coming up with a reason for something like a rubric becoming possessed. In my head there'd totally be multiple sorcerers working on fixes or "fixes" for the rubric, and surely one thought it's a good idea to stuff deamons into the suits along with all the dust.

Maybe some sort of living whirlwind of fire and armour from mixing a bunch brimstone horrors into the dust.

 

In general there's still a lot that could be copied from other chaos marine factions in terms of archetype and their respective support characters, like Chosen/Flawless Blades, Havocs/Noise Marines, cultists, or Daemon Engines;

 

For Chosen I could see a trio of sorcerers with staff and sword, or dual swords, all on discs. That would also fill the cavalry niche, and give Exalted Sorcs on Disks a unit to lead properly. Speaking of Exalted, their kit is great, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it replaced down the line with a one-man kit simply to extract more value.

 

Havoc equivalents shouldn't even be a question, and could easily be done with an upgrade kit for rubrics. Or maybe get cute with it and make a heavy weapon terminator squad. Or give 'em super ornate rapiers or tarantulas. Or heavy weapon teams formed from prosperine spireguard.

 

Speaking of spireguard, perfect shoe-in for the cultist slot, and ranged foil to the beastmen.

 

Daemon engines would be an easy win; Silver Towers, Aether Rays, Mirror Fiends. GW just needs to remember them.

 

Characters are the one avenue where TS should be as, if not more insane than DG, as you have all the divergent cults multiplied with any specialisations the old legion had. Numerologists are easy, especially with automata now being a thing again, could easily fill the techmarine role.

Hidden One remnants for that lone operative goodness.

Could even do apothecaries once you have stuff like chosen, for some actual medic-ing, though you can also have them assist via casting miniature rubric spell on the dustbins. Maybe even a variant in Terminator Armour primus medicae style.

Exalted Champion clones, two handed kopesh.

Overseers joining the beastman rabble to whip them into shape. maybe along spireguard.

Armistos joining the heavy weapon squads.

Command squad esque cabals, with an apprentice, and a representative of the beastmen and the spireguard each, maybe a banner guy.

Spireguard Commanders, medics, comms, the lot, maybe with a sorcerous twist like corrupted navigators, witches, tzeentchian priests, etc.

Not-Chaplains blabbering half-truths, contradictions, and falsehoods.

 

Beyond all that maybe something like terrain; ritual circles, altars, warp-rifts. Especially the latter would be an interesting potential for movement shenanigans, while the others could be used for cute ideas like sacrificing mortal, summoning daemons, nuking the battlefield, etc.

[Indy Techwisp]

20 hours ago, Nephaston said:

I'd love some TS Possessed/Eightbound, but it would take the writers/model designers coming up with a reason for something like a rubric becoming possessed. In my head there'd totally be multiple sorcerers working on fixes or "fixes" for the rubric, and surely one thought it's a good idea to stuff deamons into the suits along with all the dust.

Maybe some sort of living whirlwind of fire and armour from mixing a bunch brimstone horrors into the dust.

 

We technically already have our box of 3 Possessed Marines.
They're just Characters:

A non-character Possessed type unit would still be nice tho.
 

20 hours ago, Nephaston said:

In general there's still a lot that could be copied from other chaos marine factions in terms of archetype and their respective support characters, like Chosen/Flawless Blades, Havocs/Noise Marines, cultists, or Daemon Engines;

For Chosen I could see a trio of sorcerers with staff and sword, or dual swords, all on discs. That would also fill the cavalry niche, and give Exalted Sorcs on Disks a unit to lead properly. Speaking of Exalted, their kit is great, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it replaced down the line with a one-man kit simply to extract more value.

Havoc equivalents shouldn't even be a question, and could easily be done with an upgrade kit for rubrics. Or maybe get cute with it and make a heavy weapon terminator squad. Or give 'em super ornate rapiers or tarantulas. Or heavy weapon teams formed from prosperine spireguard.

Speaking of spireguard, perfect shoe-in for the cultist slot, and ranged foil to the beastmen.

Daemon engines would be an easy win; Silver Towers, Aether Rays, Mirror Fiends. GW just needs to remember them.

A disc-based Marine unit would be nice, but really all the Disc-Sorcs need is a unit with Fly. Sword and Stave Sorcs as a Chosen unit would be a good idea tho.
Rubric Havocs is one of the most common suggestions, for good reason. That said, a different Terminator unit would be interesting however unlikely (DG's 2 Termies seems to be because one of those is their "3-man Possessed" type unit.)
Spireguard for Cultists could be easily achieved by letting TSons steal Traitor Guard (IMO all Cult Marines should be able to do this) but if TSons got them as a unique unit then they probably need a way to interact with Cabal Points.
For Daemon Engines, the Silver Towers are HUGE. They're more like a moving terrain piece. That said having a unique Daemon engine would be a good thing.

 

20 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Characters are the one avenue where TS should be as, if not more insane than DG, as you have all the divergent cults multiplied with any specialisations the old legion had. Numerologists are easy, especially with automata now being a thing again, could easily fill the techmarine role.

Hidden One remnants for that lone operative goodness.

Could even do apothecaries once you have stuff like chosen, for some actual medic-ing, though you can also have them assist via casting miniature rubric spell on the dustbins. Maybe even a variant in Terminator Armour primus medicae style.

Exalted Champion clones, two handed kopesh.

Overseers joining the beastman rabble to whip them into shape. maybe along spireguard.

Armistos joining the heavy weapon squads.

Command squad esque cabals, with an apprentice, and a representative of the beastmen and the spireguard each, maybe a banner guy.

Spireguard Commanders, medics, comms, the lot, maybe with a sorcerous twist like corrupted navigators, witches, tzeentchian priests, etc.

Not-Chaplains blabbering half-truths, contradictions, and falsehoods.

We are already rather saturated with characters, but more wouldn't hurt.

A lot of these are good ideas, but also fall into the category of either "We could probably steal that from X faction" or "We can steal that from HH".
Which isn't bad per se, but looking at what GW did to the Psy-Automa makes that approach slightly less likely to arrive in the form we expect.

 

20 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Beyond all that maybe something like terrain; ritual circles, altars, warp-rifts. Especially the latter would be an interesting potential for movement shenanigans, while the others could be used for cute ideas like sacrificing mortal, summoning daemons, nuking the battlefield, etc.

The aforementioned Silver Tower would be a good choice here.

[Ahzek451]

GW has plenty of inspiration to access from old Epic 40k. Im sure a couple on the thread are sick of me bringing these up lol. But yes....silver towers, or rather,  shards of one updated would be great. They used to be a thing. 

 

I also used to say they should do a flyer dual kit to make a fire lord bomber or doomwing. But these days I'm less inclined to think this possible. Reason being...GW leaves breadcrumbs for trends, it's become clear they are not keen on flyers for a few editions now. I do wonder if they have a desire to phase them out of 40k. Hard to say. But it hasn't looked good for awhile. When was the last time a 40k army got a flyer? Admech?

 

Speaking of trends, I know a lot of people wish for a t.sons equivalent to whatever our chaos kin have but I think its just not in the cards. GW has gone all in on the god legions and by just looking at the new models over the years, it would seem that any new models introduced are going to be new and widely different from their kin. I don't think everyone is going to get a posseseed/biker/havoc/dreadnought/etc. version of whatever God the army belongs to. Heck it's taken 10 years just to get a character and robots. The robots being a wildcard despite everyone clamoring for psychic dreads.

 

Just by looking at what GW has been doing with the gods, they clearly want each one to be a widely unique and distinct faction having very little in common besides power armour. 

 

Thrall wizards should make an appearance. 

 

I would like to have disc riders of some sort but I get the feeling GW would end up making something that would subvert our expectations somehow. 

 

Short of seeing our turn in the sun for a range refresh, I'm also not expecting any major additions for some time either. 11th will likely just see 1 new unit if any. GW only promised a new model for every army In 10th. So we will have to see what they say about 11th next year. 

[Tokugawa]

GW didn't make any legion/chapter exclusive vehicle kits after 8th. Although PBC/FBD/MBH were widely welcomed by DG customers, GW didn't develop similar products for another marine faction. Maybe the overall invest/profit is not as good as just release a £40+ 5 models infantry box.

[Indy Techwisp]

9 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

GW didn't make any legion/chapter exclusive vehicle kits after 8th. Although PBC/FBD/MBH were widely welcomed by DG customers, GW didn't develop similar products for another marine faction. Maybe the overall invest/profit is not as good as just release a £40+ 5 models infantry box.

Sadly, this is wrong.
Our brand new DAoT Men of Iron LARPing as Psy-Automa are Vehicle Walkers.

[Skallagoose]

Love these ideas! Let me throw in my two cents:

 to preface this, I do think Tsons had a part 2 planned just unrealized. Idk when they were dropped (conception or implementation) but I think narratively there is a way to string it along.

 

narrative: so Magnus pulled the planet of sorcerers in real space, next to Prospero, and has been calling psychics to the planet. He starts experimenting with forcing daemons into these people to refresh the ranks. Some fall to the rubric, others become something… else…

 

rubrics:

use the existing box. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

-upgrade sprue to have khopesh wielding troops. These are similar to 30k

-upgrade sprue to include new weapons. I think the sehktar robots have a new weapon- use these weapons as a base for rubrics with heavy weapons.

 

Using the CAD system for rubrics/exalted sorcerers: make a unit of disc sorcerers. These are the successful experiments mentioned above. They are armed with a lance and shield. Fast moving flyers with a strong first fight but elite (3/6 in a unit). They have minor psychic powers (think of a flamer attack each). Think of doom knights from Warhammer Total War

 

Failed initiates: these are those poor souls that the soul hasn’t bound with the body right. The daemon in them isn’t merging and they are being torn asunder. Small units again (2/4), they have deadly demise in combat. They act as a chaff/power supply for nearby sorcerers. 
 

Psychic dreads. This is a duh. I don’t get it. Gw says sorcerers were empowered by the rubric and weak sorcerers or non sorcerers became dust. What about a wounded sorcerer being interred in a dread? Like that doesn’t break the narrative or rules. You can have one normal dread and one that is undergoing flesh change inside the dread (essentially becoming a helbrute: look at murderfang as example)

 

Shard of a tower. I worry they wouldn’t do this because it would look weird on the table.

 

more daemon engines: I don’t know why they don’t open all the daemon engines from chaos space marines to the chapters. The lore is they literally trade and steal from each other already. 

 

use the CAD system to tweak and port over some 30k stuff:

 

Kratos could be tweaked to be tzeentched/chaos. 

 

obviously this would not be in ONE release. But I think it’s important to think about the viability and ease of making these releases: first in design and then in implementation

[Ahzek451]

19 hours ago, Skallagoose said:

Psychic dreads. This is a duh. I don’t get it. Gw says sorcerers were empowered by the rubric and weak sorcerers or non sorcerers became dust. What about a wounded sorcerer being interred in a dread? Like that doesn’t break the narrative or rules. You can have one normal dread and one that is undergoing flesh change inside the dread (essentially becoming a helbrute: look at murderfang as example)

Even Rubric dreads should be a thing. They were a thing all the way back in 3rd with their own lore and rules in the old chapter approved books. They were fun. Being dust meant they could shake off certain damage results.  I'll be a bit harsh here to GW, but the current lore that rubric's don't work in dreadnoughts so they have to steal other chaos marines from other legions and imprison them in helbrutes is just lazy writing to justify helbrutes in the army. That being said, the lore is ever fluid, especially these days. So if GW ever produced a model for it, they could re-write the lore any way they want...which is convenient for them but bad practice if done in excess. 

Concerning daemon engines and sharing units: I think the idea here is that GW has gone all in on making the GOD legions truly unique and independent factions. And this is the way forward. We are much more than a dark mirror to the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, etc. The GOD legions are completely unique and untethered. These legions have strayed so far from the path that they are barely recognizable as once even being astartes. And that...is literally the only thing they share between themselves and even the non-god aligned chaos legions (iron warriors, nights lords, etc.). That being said, I would expect each god legion to eventually have their own unique roster of daemon engines, much like the DG already have the blight-hauler, crawler, and bloat drone.....GW decided to bless nurgle with all their daemon engines up front for some reason. And frankly I am way on board for this. I would prefer to have our own unique toys that are 100% stylized to look like their respective god legion. 

I am glad you point out the new lore, many people often overlook what it means for new possibilities. We have our old home back, and then some. A small empire carved out in rea-space and old prospero transformed into a warmachine factory. Magnus summoning talented pyskers. This could mean so many things. Hard to say. But lets see it! 

[Skallagoose]

2 hours ago, Ahzek451 said:

Concerning daemon engines and sharing units: I think the idea here is that GW has gone all in on making the GOD legions truly unique and independent factions. And this is the way forward. We are much more than a dark mirror to the Blood angels, space wolves, dark angels, etc. The GOD legions are completely unique and untethered. These legions have strayed so far from the path that they are barely recognizable as once even being astartes. And that...is literally the only thing they share between themselves and even the non-god aligned chaos legions (iron warriors, nights lords, etc.). That being said, I would expect each god legion to eventually have their own unique roster of daemon engines, much like the DG already have the blight-hauler, crawler, and bloat drone.....GW decided to bless nurgle with all their daemon engines up front for some reason. And frankly I am way on board for this. I would prefer to have our own unique toys that are 100% stylized to look like their respective god legion. 

 

I could not agree more. Sorry I should have been clearer: all daemon engines, like venomcrawler for example, should be made available UNTIL new daemon engines specific to Tsons are released. A stop-gap that is supported by the lore.

 

i think Tsons having their old homeworld again, and lore being deep vaults of weapons that were never used opens so many opportunities. Let’s Tzeentch-ify 30k tanks and robots! Extremely lore friendly, extremely easy using the 30k models as a base. 

[Ahzek451]

1 hour ago, Skallagoose said:

all daemon engines, like venomcrawler for example, should be made available UNTIL new daemon engines specific to Tsons are released. A stop-gap that is supported by the lore.

When it comes to this, I won't fight it. I just worry that it produces a "feels bad" when the day comes when those models get taken away from the codex once the new ones come in to replace. Having been there myself with a painstakingly converted and painted contemptor finished just a couple months before GW took away FW units. Oh yes, I fully acknowledge that chip on my shoulder lol. It just means I won't purchase or invest in any model that has warning signs of being "booted". Unless I feel like making something for the fun of it knowing full well its not meant for the game. 

But then again, GW does move at a glacial pace for anything that is not a space marine so....have at it.