New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[MARK0SIAN]

13 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Artificer sergeant death would have me happy.

I’d leave it place for Tactical/despoiler squads because I think they’re quite squishy as it is and it would be a nice unique touch for the squad. I wouldn’t mind if it disappeared from other stuff though. 
 

To be honest, I don’t feel too strongly about it, although I know a lot of people do find it frustrating. When I play with friends we use the rule that they can only take wounds up to their initiative which helps, and we also unfailingly roll a 1 on the first wound they’re taking anyway. 

[Armchair Warlord]

This video release reminds me of the one they released with Duncan and the card board box marked 'plastic thunderhawk' in the background..... Touché! I like it!

 

[TheVoidDragon]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

Its in one of the timelines somewhere that talks about it in official GW publications. Its a thing and about to completely be a thing.

 

Saturnine Terminator armour is a thing.

 

But the armour / art / miniatures that the community commonly claims is "Saturnine", is not Saturnine. We don't know what it looks like.

 

It has not once had an actual depiction, the community has just claimed those are showing it despite that not once having been officially stated and it's been repeated unquestioningly so often that gets taken as fact even though its not.

Edited 7 hours ago by TheVoidDragon

[Mandragola]

6 hours ago, Dagoth Ur said:

 

With all due respect for the Goonhammer content creators, but I think you'll find very little sympathy for an opinion like that in the HH community given that you went from having some fantastic HH articles during first edition to being happy to platform people that describe Horus Heresy as "a game that no sane person plays" and that a particular (and critical Mechanicum) release for it was "a little bit of charity, for the heresy freaks to get a release here and there, but I don't think we should encourage them too much. One lackluster release is about what they deserve."

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-roundtable-the-lvo-2025-gw-reveals/

 

Honestly those comments do come across as pretty unkind towards the heresy community. I can see why people would be upset.

 

3 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Wow that quote about Heresy players is probably meant tongue in cheek but that's kind of in bad taste.

 

Probably this. My vague recollection of this preview was that no heresy stuff was expected, meaning the people at GH who actually write about Heresy didn't join that round table. If we had, we'd have been able to put across another opinion. GH writes about an awful lot of different games and each writer has their own preferences, as does everyone.

 

2 hours ago, Joe said:

Comment about the Heresy community aside, I'm pretty certain one of the moderators nuked a post I made last year about the quality of the Goonhammer articles r.e. Heresy taking a nose dive off a cliff around the time the Shattered Legions and Blackshields rules came out, and how it just felt like the authors were only here to take pot shots now. It wasn't a good look at the time.

 

We are definitely not just taking pot shots. I wrote the review of beta garmon, with the shattered legion and blackshield rules you mention. I stand by my opinion that the blackshield rules are really cool but the shattered legion ones are not good enough. Not everyone agrees with me and that's fine but I have no agenda other than giving my honest opinion. There are plenty of content creators out there who'll tell you that everything is awesome, and a few who'll do the opposite. You're welcome to read whatever you like. I understand that having a platform for my opinion also makes me a bit of a target, but that goes with the territory. It's also why some people don't write about heresy any more.

 

Blackshields and shattered legions are factions I'm a bit concerned about with the new edition, as well as legacy units and non-marine factions like militia and daemons. Lots of people have done really cool converted armies of this stuff and I really hope they are still usable in 3.0, with the minimum possible change. It's very concerning to hear rumours that units won't be able to have such varied equipment as lots of us have spent tons of time and money on this stuff. Nobody wants the bland lack of options you have with 40k. It would suck if they mess this up and we'd say so in our reviews.

 

I personally want to see an even better game, either through a new edition or a big FAQ that fixes some of the issues. I think the heresy community deserves a great rule set that everyone can enjoy playing, and which brings in new players. I've actually already started some test models for a new army, partly as a way to reduce my pile of shame/opportunity. I've got a way to go yet!

 

 

And on the subject of terrain, I've just picked up a few boxes of the MTO stuff, which I ordered last year. Hoping to be able to make a decent board out of this lot, perhaps not entirely made up of Ls.

 

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

Artificer sergeant death would have me happy.

I like artificer Sgts for melee challenges/duels, I don't like that the wound allocation rules for shooting let them jump in front of all bullets.  I don't think it  would be too disruptive to say they can only take a second hit if all eligible targets in the squad have taken one.

[Marshal Rohr]

Edit: didn’t realize there was a new page with replies 

Edited 6 hours ago by Marshal Rohr

[StratoKhan]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

40k suffers from a mindless adherence to tournament play and 30k has a lot of cantankerous stubborn people who treat it like a perfect historical game. Neither is good.

Hey I can’t help but noticing how quite a few of your contributions to this thread are about how bad we HH people are as a community.

 

Have you got it out of your system yet?

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

2 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Artificer sergeant death would have me happy.

Problem is for every good decision they make there are two instances of blunders when doing a new edition. Why? Because there is no incentive to create a failproof edition when said edition is going to be thrown in the trash anyway after exactly three years. Then it´s just better to turn off your brain while writing rules and include whatever comes to mind in the moment without giving much thought about any negative implications. And should they f*** up big time then they can release a FAQ in a couple of months. So no sweat.

[Mr Farson]

4 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

One pictures says more than thousand words. This is how the usual 40k table looks like in my 60+men gaming club:

 

Do I want that?

 

To be fair that's more terrain than I see on most heresy boards

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, StratoKhan said:

Hey I can’t help but noticing how quite a few of your contributions to this thread are about how bad we HH people are as a community.

 

Have you got it out of your system yet?

Given you're responding to a post where I highlight the obvious negative stereotypes of both the 40k and 30k it's an odd choice to go with.

 

But as long as people manage to reinforce the impression I have (which isn't everyone by any stretch), I'll retain my opinion thank you.

 

You might be lovely, I don't know you, historically I've had a lot of bad experiences with HH circles.

[ZeroWolf]

4 hours ago, StratoKhan said:

The guy who made the comment about Heresy ‘freaks’ seems to delete people’s comments a lot. Guess when HH3 drops I won’t be going there to get their take on things.

 

Anyhow, who is actually looking forward to a few more weeks of the drip feed approach? It was cute up to now, but… can we just have the reveal soon?

 

I’m wondering how long before I get tired of this, and I think that I’m probably ok with one more round. Then basta.

We should get the proper reveal at the next preview show which is the dallas open? Should be in two weeks I think.

[Pacific81]

Interestingly I remember that there was very, very similar conversation prior to 2nd edition HH being released.

 

I will describe it as *absolute terror* from the community that GW will do something to balls-up HH, turn it into 8th edition 40k (I think it was at the time).

 

Hopefully once again that wont happen and, as it was at that time, the fears will be ill-founded. 

[StratoKhan]

34 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Given you're responding to a post where I highlight the obvious negative stereotypes of both the 40k and 30k it's an odd choice to go with.

 

But as long as people manage to reinforce the impression I have (which isn't everyone by any stretch), I'll retain my opinion thank you.

 

You might be lovely, I don't know you, historically I've had a lot of bad experiences with HH circles.

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences. There are some elitist people in HH the community, but I haven’t actually met that many of them and all my interactions in person have been quite positive.

 

As for responding to your post. I just quoted that one. A few comments back you asked why the HH community is “so change adverse”. A lot of people took the time to constructively explain their positions and where they’re coming from. Hopefully you saw from that interaction people aren’t cantankerous, adverse to change for the sake of it, etc. We just like something and want it to be better, and have an opinion on what that better should be. Pretty normal stuff if you ask me.

 

Having looked through the comments you’ve posted on the thread, it’s hard not to feel like you’ve coming to the discussion with some pre-formed opinions that you need to insert into the conversation, which can be a little frustrating. I’ll try to be more open minded and assume you’re here to contribute positively rather than settle some score with a community which irks you. Which is where my previous post was coming from.

30 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

We should get the proper reveal at the next preview show which is the dallas open? Should be in two weeks I think.

 

Would be good!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Whole lot of discussion i missed since Thursday, wow. Stuff is going fast lol.

 

I think it's important to recognize that for a lot of people who are long term heresy players, part of the appeal of the system was that it wasn't following the current trend of 40k. They preferred heresy to 7ths detachments, and they preferred heresy to 8th+ style of 40k. For some of these people, stratagem style mechanics of 2nd was a bit of a red flag, as was the not-Legends units whose rules were broadly so poor that they might as have stopped existing, invalidating collections. Some of the new infantry has also kinda heavily diverged from the older stuff, making matching it into old collections challenging (kinda like the size issues of primaris and 7th ed firstborn). So the fear of 3 year cycles is that more of the modern GW mainline game treatment will make its way into heresy, and it'll shift into something people were trying to avoid in the first place. 

 

But ya, 2nd as a system and sandbox needs major work done. It's just the unfortunate reality of things that GW thinks that you need to structure releases around edition changes, and so any incremental fixing of 2nd got shoved into 3rd (in a way that repeats what happened to 1st back in 2019). Hopefully that means that this is the edition for the infantry wave of releases, so people can finally buy into the "mass infantry game" fantasy.

[Gorgoff]

3 hours ago, Redcomet said:

This.

Extremes being the most vocal, and thus the most heard is never a good thing. Having a culture that either only rewards net lists and waac’ing, or a culture where you get scorned for using a certain mark of power armor where it isn’t “historically” accurate, are both doomed to ruin the game if left to fester.

The latter comes from the experience with the former most HH have though.

Obviously it's a generalisation but the stereotype is that 40k players doesn't give one flying :cuss: in regards how accurate their army is, how their stmy looks, they play half painted or not painted at all and just have a WAAC attitude. 

Again that is a generalisation but there are so many bad stories most of us have witnessed first hand that sometimes it comes to these overstrikt comments and attitudes towards how a "proper" HH army has to look like.

 

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

It's the people though, we play 40k on a 6x4 and with a mix of terrain.

 

Good to hear.

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I don't think either game is healthier, I don't think the community for either is healthier or healthy for the game to be honest.

 

40k is thriving which is good news for us all. 40k and AOS are the cash machines of GW and allows them to make such things as HH.

So gogogo to both games.

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

40k suffers from a mindless adherence to tournament play and 30k has a lot of cantankerous stubborn people who treat it like a perfect historical game. Neither is good.

True.

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

I like artificer Sgts for melee challenges/duels, I don't like that the wound allocation rules for shooting let them jump in front of all bullets.  I don't think it  would be too disruptive to say they can only take a second hit if all eligible targets in the squad have taken one.

"Wounds can't be applied to characters unless any model of the unit without the character subtype is still alive" would be my take. 

That or an older version of 40k where a wound must be applied to each visible model in the target unit before a second wound can be applied to a certain model. I really liked that.

It's fast, it is somewhat immersive and it couldn't get abused easily.

1 hour ago, Mr Farson said:

To be fair that's more terrain than I see on most heresy boards

I don't see any terrain on my example picture. Just markers where terrain pieces should be. 

But yeah, generally speaking players use way to less terrain. I don't know how often I argued with players who subbornly wanted to put one little piece of terrain in the middle of the board and then proceed to put two big ones in each deployment zone. Terrible. 

1 hour ago, ZeroWolf said:

We should get the proper reveal at the next preview show which is the dallas open? Should be in two weeks I think.

I agree that it seemes to be close, yes. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, StratoKhan said:

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had bad experiences. There are some elitist people in HH the community, but I haven’t actually met that many of them and all my interactions in person have been quite positive.

 

As for responding to your post. I just quoted that one. A few comments back you asked why the HH community is “so change adverse”. A lot of people took the time to constructively explain their positions and where they’re coming from. Hopefully you saw from that interaction people aren’t cantankerous, adverse to change for the sake of it, etc. We just like something and want it to be better, and have an opinion on what that better should be. Pretty normal stuff if you ask me.

 

Having looked through the comments you’ve posted on the thread, it’s hard not to feel like you’ve coming to the discussion with some pre-formed opinions that you need to insert into the conversation, which can be a little frustrating. I’ll try to be more open minded and assume you’re here to contribute positively rather than settle some score with a community which irks you. Which is where my previous post was coming from.

 

Would be good!

Appreciate the measured response, I'm absolutely not trying to settle any scores or anything. I can understand the reasons most people gave and those you mention as a reticence towards the concept of a new edition.

 

As mentioned elsewhere I've been gearing up to engage with this game more, having opponents now who are less... obtuse? About the setting. But it's fairly hard being excited for a potential new kick off point when it's largely met with reactions that range from reluctance to outright rejection. It's certainly more notable in other online places however.

Edited 3 hours ago by Mogger351

[Gorgoff]

32 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Appreciate the measured response, I'm absolutely not trying to settle any scores or anything. I can understand the reasons most people gave and those you mention as a reticence towards the concept of a new edition.

 

As mentioned elsewhere I've been gearing up to engage with this game more, having opponents now who are less... obtuse? About the setting. But it's fairly hard being excited for a potential new kick off point when it's largely met with reactions that range from reluctance to outright rejection. It's certainly more notable in other online places however.

Yeah go to a Star Wars fan site after a new show or movie has dropped. These people are nuts. ;)

 

 

 

[LameBeard]

Hey I hope I didn’t start all this with my Jeff Goldblum joke. FWIW I’m not anti-change, I just want it to be a bit slower. I like it when GW gradually brings out cool new options as support for a game, but eventually that affects balance, creates weird interactions and ends up with rules in too many places. So starting afresh every now and then makes sense and makes it more accessible for new players. I’d just like that to be more like 6 years than 3, because I’m an old guy with boring responsibilities who doesn’t get to game that often; those cool options will just pass me by, without a bit more time to build my armies and get them on the table.

[Sgt.Sangha]

This is exactly it th

19 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

Hey I hope I didn’t start all this with my Jeff Goldblum joke. FWIW I’m not anti-change, I just want it to be a bit slower. I like it when GW gradually brings out cool new options as support for a game, but eventually that affects balance, creates weird interactions and ends up with rules in too many places. So starting afresh every now and then makes sense and makes it more accessible for new players. I’d just like that to be more like 6 years than 3, because I’m an old guy with boring responsibilities who doesn’t get to game that often; those cool options will just pass me by, without a bit more time to build my armies and get them on the table.

This is exactly what my concern is. I bought into heresy because I loved the lore. But it takes time to get things off thr ground. Heck i still have a big first born WS bike army half completed thats just sitting there for 40k. 

Having time between a new release like even 5 years would have be awesome.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

According to the rumours we will receive this in the box:

 

- 2 characters, Centurion & Saturnine Terminator. Those won´t be enlarged like SM cosplaying Orks as it was the case in HH 2.0.

- 40 Mk2 Tacticals.

- Disintegrators (heavy weapons for marines).

- Two 3-man Saturnine Terminator squads.

- Saturnine Dreadnought.

- Quad Accelerator Gun platform.

- Decals for Iron Warriors & Salamanders.

- Plastic objective markers.

- Rulebook.

- Gaming aids.

 

Comparing this content with what we got in the HH 2.0 core box it makes sense. I hope the gun platform is huge because it replaces the Spartan which we got in the previous edition.

[Xirix]

First I've heard of Disintegrators in that rumour list, interesting. New Heavy Weapons rather than just some of he existing ones sounds good to me. The only thing I 'really 'want is that MK2 don't have the exact same pose as 6 and 3. I know they're going to make them compatible with the weapons, but the legs don't need to be in the exact positions.

[Marshal Loss]

Haven't seen this discussed so apologies if I've missed it in the wall of replies, but Valrak posted another video largely summarising previous rumours:

 

 

Summary thanks to Joe on the HH Discord:

• 1 Saturnine Praetor (painted as a Salamander)
• 1 Mark II Centurion (painted as a Salamander)
• 1 "Saturnine" Dreadnought
• 1 Quad Accelerator Platform (the big gun)
• 6 Saturnine Terminators (two three-man squads)
• 40 Mark II Tactical Marines
• Two sets of "Disingenerator" (Disintegrator?) weapons
• 3E Core Rulebook
• Tactical, Status and Objective Tokens
• Normal D6s and Scatter Dice
• Templates
• Transfer Sheet
• Introduction Rules
• Instructions

 

Disintegrator weaponry being in the box sounds interesting as they're currently only able to be taken by a very limited array of units

Edited 14 minutes ago by Marshal Loss
formatting fix