New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Lord Sondar]

1 hour ago, Doobles57 said:

You're right - well they didn't sell them I don't think but they were the bonus item if you preordered the launch box direct with them. I'd forgotten about them, but yes it's the exact same icon:

 

 

Image from https://miniset.net/sets/gw-60443099003

I'd totally forgotten I owe these, whoops.  Fortunately, I have managed to play my first two games of 2.0 this month.  Just in time to start preparing for 3.0.  

[Schrödingers Primarch]

15 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I've seen enough people over the Internet say they're outright done with the game regardless

Welcome to every edition release of any game. There will always be doomsayers, but overall perception seems to be positive and lots of people who haven't touched Heresy in a while (or ever) are looking at it again. Maybe a few super-heavy tanks dropping in plastic will change some minds 

[DuskRaider]

42 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Seems I touched a nerve on the LI commentary. Sorry people, the game with 0 list building restrictions and legion soup to shame 8th, essentially 10th Ed points on super weapon disparity, and alternate activations that can range to 50+ per side with extra interrupt mechanics is a bad one. There's a reason why the board is pretty much dead on the forum with the active threads boiling down to "how do we fix this game instead of just abandoning it".

 

As critical as I am of 2nds rules, it looks like the perfect game next to LI and I have no faith in the LI team: they took SM2 and butchered it. Nothing needs to be ported from LI.

I don’t know what they’re disagreeing with, LI is a mess. The FAQ / Errata fixed some of the issues, but others are baked right into it and while the community has done a lot to alleviate some of it, it requires an entire rewrite to fix all of it. This is coming from someone who actually really likes the game / scale and currently is the only system / scale I am active in. 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, templargdt said:

So what are the estimated contents of the box based on the pictures?

Minis?

 

1 praetor

1 consul

6 saturnine terms

Saturnine dread

40 mkii

2 lots disintegrator weapons 

Defensive quad turret thing

Rulebook 

Dice 

Templates

[Deschenus Maximus]

Re: LI - I just want them to do redo how melee works. 2D6 roll-offs for EVERY MODEL in a detachment is janky as hell. The rest of the rules I can live with. It DOES need a complete redo of the points, though.

[Matcap86]

Don't mind the not wanting LI style game integrated into HH comment, which is fair. Just the "ZOMG worst game of all time" seems a bit much. I'm very much enjoying it for what it is and so are plenty of others. 

[Gorgoff]

3 hours ago, StratoKhan said:

Based on that, it does seem to strongly suggest that the 2.0 reactions will still exist more or less as they were (type and qty).
 

Now, the specific rules for those reactions - could they change? Would be interesting to get some kind of preview on that.

If I had a saying in this I would give reactions a downside and limit each unit to make one reaction in the enemy turn.

If the unit makes a movement reaction they can't move in their next turn (or half movement or smth like that), if they take a shooting reaction they only shoot snapshots etc pp

Maybe them putting in those markers in the box, could mean they finally do that. So far markers made zero sense because nobody needed markers to remember that they already made their one reaction in the movement phase.

3 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

You would need lots of tokens per player which won´t be included in the box. I personally use different kinds of coloured glass tokens to illustrate status effects.

The picture shows us that there are indeed those markers inside of the box. 

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I've seen enough people over the Internet say they're outright done with the game regardless

Wohooo cheap second hand models incoming  ;)

Edited 5 hours ago by Gorgoff

[LameBeard]

6 hours ago, TheWarmaster said:

works or fan made..

Good point. Is this art from a GW book or is it fan-made?

Edited 5 hours ago by LameBeard

[The Yak]

Since they are having fun with us, could the token image be for a completely different game system and they have chucked it in there to mess about. The "Titan shocked" could be a clue it's for a new starter box of AT as it's the shutdown order icon?

[INKS]

4 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

Good point. Is this art from a GW bookor is it fan-made?

Supposedly - Deeds Endure (Short Story) — Shattered Legions (Anthology)  --- Is where it's from?

 

However:

"These prototypes were designed by Vulkan himself, and used by the Salamanders in the aftermath of the Drop Site Massacre. They were much wider and taller than standard legionary power armour, and featured an additional exoskeleton frame to which slanted reinforced armor plates were attached. Left hands carried Power fists, claws and Chainblades for close combat, opening armour and cutting through bulkheads, while right hands wielded a variety of small arms ranging from simple combi-bolters to triple-barrelled autocannons, Plasma Launchers, Rocket Launchers and long-barrelled Volkite Culver"

 

These are apparently Vulkan's design and not exactly the same as Saturnine.

 

 

"Saturnine Pattern

Saturnine pattern was made available after the MKVI Power Armour, during the latter stages of the Horus Heresy.[21] Its pattern is described as being functionally identical to the Tartaros and Indomitus designs[11], and it is believed that any divergence in design was largely aesthetic. Little is known about the origins of these Terminator suits, and few examples of this pattern are known to still exist."

 

So I guess maybe it's some other form or amalgamation of them? Or they just changed the lore and renamed them, although I am not sure they had an "official name"

 

[TheVoidDragon]

8 minutes ago, INKS said:

So I guess maybe it's some other form or amalgamation of them? Or they just changed the lore and renamed them, although I am not sure they had an "official name"

 

 

They didn't really. The community claimed they were "saturnine" even though they were just meant to be a suit of prototype armour made by Vulkan.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by TheVoidDragon

[LameBeard]

@INKS we were talking specifically about the provenance of the gun on the top between the shoulder pads, not trying to reopen the “are egginators Saturnine or not” debate which already consumes several threads, but thanks for you and @TheVoidDragon for confirming it’s from GW book. I thought I’d seen it more in black & white.

Edited 5 hours ago by LameBeard

[INKS]

3 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

They didn't really. The community claimed they were "saturnine" even though they were just meant to be a suit of prototype armour made by Vulkan.

 

Yes I know. But they are now known as Saternine with this new box right? Although the weapon load outs are different than the pic of course.

2 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

@INKS we were talking specifically about the provenance of the gun on the top between the shoulder pads, not trying to reopen the “are egginators Saturnine or not” debate which already consumes several threads.

oh ok, fair enough. The pic is a GW one, it's from the book I quoted earlier. looks like a heavy bolter and auto or las cannon on the other?

[ZeroWolf]

5 minutes ago, INKS said:

Yes I know. But they are now known as Saternine with this new box right? Although the weapon load outs are different than the pic of course.

oh ok, fair enough. The pic is a GW one, it's from the book I quoted earlier. looks like a heavy bolter and auto or las cannon on the other?

Yup, the egg-inators are now Saturnine. Those ones in the picture would probably get Nocturne in the name somewhere if GW ever produced that load out, but then again, GW might just overrule that comment. Their lore afterall, they can pretty much do what they want with it.

[INKS]

2 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Yup, the egg-inators are now Saturnine. Those ones in the picture would probably get Nocturne in the name somewhere if GW ever produced that load out, but then again, GW might just overrule that comment. Their lore afterall, they can pretty much do what they want with it.

yeah for sure. fully understand that. I am interested in seeing what lore if any they write about it

[TheArtilleryman]

Not keen on the saturnine stuff but looking forward to seeing lots of cheap mkII marines on eBay when people start splitting boxes :)

[Deschenus Maximus]

1 hour ago, The Yak said:

Since they are having fun with us, could the token image be for a completely different game system and they have chucked it in there to mess about. The "Titan shocked" could be a clue it's for a new starter box of AT as it's the shutdown order icon?

 

GW have reused the same icons for many games. I wouldn't read too much into the fact that this icon is also used in AT.

[Mandragola]

Having Saturnine terminators boxed with mk2s, along with fluff referencing Istvaan V, contradicts the previous fluff, which has them appearing during the heresy (though barely previously mentioned). 

[SvenIronhand]

Retcons happen.

[lansalt]

3 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Having Saturnine terminators boxed with mk2s, along with fluff referencing Istvaan V, contradicts the previous fluff, which has them appearing during the heresy (though barely previously mentioned). 

The AoD rulebook also references characters and units from the Siege of Cthonia which do not actually appear in the later campaign book. So the team working in HH2 is clearly disfunctional or just does not care at all about what they sold us previously.

[Matcap86]

The Mk6 was also retconned from: 'in testing in small units in early heresy, prevalent in late heresy' to: 'Everyone gets Mk6 all the time cause that's what we're selling right now!'. Curious to see if that gets ret-retconned now MK2 is in the spotlight and we're going back to Isstvan.

 

That retcon didn't sit well with me. I know lore was always subservient to the business side of things but that was so blatantly linked to facilitate the relaunch that banked hard on beakie nostalgia. 

[Misterduch]

Welp, I am back from the dead I guess.

Between the new models and the prospect of improved rules I am actually getting interested in jumping back into HH to some degree.

 

Out of the models, the only one I don't like is the Preator, it's just too much,

2 hours ago, INKS said:

Supposedly - Deeds Endure (Short Story) — Shattered Legions (Anthology)  --- Is where it's from?

 

However:

"These prototypes were designed by Vulkan himself, and used by the Salamanders in the aftermath of the Drop Site Massacre. They were much wider and taller than standard legionary power armour, and featured an additional exoskeleton frame to which slanted reinforced armor plates were attached. Left hands carried Power fists, claws and Chainblades for close combat, opening armour and cutting through bulkheads, while right hands wielded a variety of small arms ranging from simple combi-bolters to triple-barrelled autocannons, Plasma Launchers, Rocket Launchers and long-barrelled Volkite Culver"

 

These are apparently Vulkan's design and not exactly the same as Saturnine.

 

 

"Saturnine Pattern

Saturnine pattern was made available after the MKVI Power Armour, during the latter stages of the Horus Heresy.[21] Its pattern is described as being functionally identical to the Tartaros and Indomitus designs[11], and it is believed that any divergence in design was largely aesthetic. Little is known about the origins of these Terminator suits, and few examples of this pattern are known to still exist."

 

So I guess maybe it's some other form or amalgamation of them? Or they just changed the lore and renamed them, although I am not sure they had an "official name"

 

 

Honestly? With Sallies and IW being the post boys GW could just make special Salamander Saturnines with extra scale bits etc, and just equipping them with 2 heavy weapons and a melee weapon still like the artwork

 

[INKS]

7 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

Welp, I am back from the dead I guess.

Between the new models and the prospect of improved rules I am actually getting interested in jumping back into HH to some degree.

 

Out of the models, the only one I don't like is the Preator, it's just too much,

 

Honestly? With Sallies and IW being the post boys GW could just make special Salamander Saturnines with extra scale bits etc, and just equipping them with 2 heavy weapons and a melee weapon still like the artwork

 

100% they could do this. wouldn't be against it.

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, Misterduch said:

Honestly? With Sallies and IW being the post boys GW could just make special Salamander Saturnines with extra scale bits etc, and just equipping them with 2 heavy weapons and a melee weapon still like the artwork

 

Could even do it like Gorgon pattern terminators for Iron Hands looking like indomitus, call it Nocturn Pattern and make it basically saturnine+. Double dip pattern names for the egginators.

 

1 hour ago, Matcap86 said:

The Mk6 was also retconned from: 'in testing in small units in early heresy, prevalent in late heresy' to: 'Everyone gets Mk6 all the time cause that's what we're selling right now!'. Curious to see if that gets ret-retconned now MK2 is in the spotlight and we're going back to Isstvan.

 

Seeing as most of the marketing was vaguely settled around the siege of Cthonia, IF vs SoK, and their Inductii I'd argue it's still pretty kosher. And considering how big the legions got and how many recruits they'd have to churn out I would argue that you can easily handwave thousands of suits per legion "small amounts".

 

 

[Matcap86]

31 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

Seeing as most of the marketing was vaguely settled around the siege of Cthonia, IF vs SoK, and their Inductii I'd argue it's still pretty kosher. And considering how big the legions got and how many recruits they'd have to churn out I would argue that you can easily handwave thousands of suits per legion "small amounts".

 

 

 

Oh sure it wasn't the end of the world, but that stood out for me and annoyed me, maybe disproportionately, more than usual. I think it felt like it detracted from the historical wargame'esque vibe the Black Books had for me.