Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Robbienw]

Look at the size of it!

[Bouargh]

1 hour ago, Marshal Mittens said:

For the Mechanium: (Forge world)

 

This is what caught my interrest the most. Even if the Mechanicum/ash nomad hybrid feeling is maybe disturbing. A Little bit…

 

Rest of the reveal has been meewh for me. I am really not excited by saturnine or disintegrator stuff… but other stuff such as rapiers and vehicles or breachers look like the are  better.

[OttoVonAwesome]

17 minutes ago, Imprudent Decision said:

Plastic Sabre?

Look at the Iron hand sargeant top right... That is not a standard plastic guy. Legion upgrade kit maybe?

 

-Edit nvm that's Fafnir Rann.

Edited May 23 by OttoVonAwesome

[lansalt]

Just now, OttoVonAwesome said:

Look at the Iron hand sargeant top right... That is not a standard plastic guy. Legion upgrade kit maybe?

It's a Fafnir Rann kitbash

[Waaagh?]

4 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Look at the size of it!

 

That's what all the women say to me.

 

 

Who am I kidding, nobody has ever said that to me. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

7 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Yes, absolute travesty they made the loyalists win at Istvaan. 

I'm serious...

 

In 2.0, Saturnine armor is developed after Mk6 so after Istvaan V,but now is fully functional in the Dropship Massacre.  Or the supposed "uber-Dreadnought" was the Leviathan, in very few units before Istvaan events. Know is the Saturnine dreadnought.

And how-knows what other things are re-writen.

 

I know lot of people don't care a thing about background, specifically GW. But I believe this "over flexibility", trying to be polite and correct, is truly excessive and counterproductive. After all, now the only useful part of the previous books is the background, and what's the value of it, if is constantly re-done and changed at please?

None. So those books are becoming even faster is something little more than a fancy paperweight. And wasted money and space.

 

At least, in my personal opinion.

4 minutes ago, lansalt said:

It's a Fafnir Rann kitbash

Looks like, with redone breast plate.

[Corswain]

3 minutes ago, lansalt said:

As much as GW repeats that Saturnine was Vulcan's gift for all legions, it's obvious that doesn't make sense except as another lazy retcon. Why aren't Justaerin wearing it, then? Yeah.

 

For me, it only makes sense that Saturnine was a Salamanders thing that pretty much was destroyed at Isstvan V except for a few Shattered Legions survivors, or being scavenged by the tech minded Iron Warriors.

I'm all for access to every Legion. For me it's just the "oh, it's better terminator armour."

 

I would have much preferred the shoulder mounted gun and two hand-held guns so they were essentially living weapons platforms. Still just variant Terminator armour but it was designed for a different purpose.

 

And scaled down so that the Marine inside it is still (roughly) the same size as the ones next to him.

We'll see how I feel about them when I can hold one in my hand though. Has made me change my mind on models before.

 

[grailkeeper]

The Mark 2 helmets look a lot better than the recent mark 3 ones, but maybe not as good as the old mark 3 ones. 

[Nagashsnee]

I am just glad most (militia and deamons?) will have rule day one. Hopefully everyone can actually try the new edition on release.

[Naryn]

The armor for the Rapier crews is REALLY reminiscent of the Imperial Space Marine. Outstanding release, I'll have to start playing Heresy again.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I think I generally like what I'm seeing with rules so far, but will need to read a bit more as we get more information. As others mentioned, the weapon profile changes are definitely cutting down on special rules, and also allows for more flexibility with initiative modifiers and all. Damage characteristic I see having the most impact on heavier weapons being able to do more damage to Dreadnoughts, definitely a reaction to that change they made in 2E.

 

I like the models, and I'm hoping that teaser means new Cataphractii.

[lansalt]

3 minutes ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

In 2.0, Saturnine armor is developed after Mk6 so after Istvaan V,but now is fully functional in the Dropship Massacre.

The HH2 rulebook also referenced units and characters from the Siege of Cthonia that later didn't appear in the campaign book. HH2 was retconning even its own previous books and WD articles (Barbarus, etc). I fully expect HH3 doing the same, without care for continuity or stablished characterizations.

Also, fully retconning the Isstvan Black Books.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

My only objection is having to buy books. All the rule updates sound like exactly what I want (I was disappointed they didnt add a Damage stat in 2.0), and the models are largely awesome or something I am glad other people have, but aren’t for me.

[Norman Paperman]

Great models and an awesome trailer! Man I love Warhammer.

 

I really dig the Saturnine termies, dreads, and the Breachers. While it will probably be a while yet before I dip my toes into the Age of Darkness, that Praetor is a solo-project worthy piece.

 

Excellent stuff, thrilled for the HH fraters!

[Astartes Consul]

The models in general look great, better than I had anticipated. And the extra kits all look great. Breachers are obviously a long-sought-after addition to the plastic line, and I like their helmet design in particular.

 

My money is on a wide range refresh for Custodes, with Heresy-only kits. That spear doesn't look ornate enough to be a new character.

 

Good to have confirmation that Legacies is staying as well. But I am perplexed by the bits on army selection. It sounds like they might have removed the Allied Force Org - or maybe Force Orgs alltogether - and be allowing you to take random allied units?

 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

25 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Yes, absolute travesty they made the loyalists win at Istvaan. 

True. This time Fulgrim loses his head. Rumour mill says they have already done his new, upscaled model where he carries his head in the elbow crease. At least Ferrus didn´t mess up his hair. Fulgrim is one lucky son of a gun!

[MoriyaSchism]

2 hours ago, Marshal Mittens said:

 

I know not everyone can watch the video, trying to capture the highlights for folks, sorry if anyone is annoyed by the images. 

Yeah, that scale comparison cements my dislike of this new dreadnought. I almost warmed up to it then they revealed its scale and I just find it silly that it towers over something called "Leviathan". Just feels like bloat at this point. I would have been fine with it as a unit if it was about the same size as the other two.

[No Foes Remain]

I think I'm pretty so-so on the whole thing, I'll wait for a clearer view of what 3.0 is going to be like (and a less rum filled head) before final judgement.

 

The potential loss of the FoC has me worried we're going into a 10th ed gamestyle, though I've seen a fair few say it's potentially similar to The Old World so I'll defer to those who play that, based on comments of being able to take what we want for a army. Didn't Rites of War already do that? Maybe the rumours of them going were right.

Mk2, are alright I loved the resin Mk2 but these I think are ok as the banding just doesn't sell me as much as the segmented plate. I get it's out of the old art but we've had the resin mk2 style for almost as long as the old ones so why change it aside from to get the old guard back in with the RT era style. May just be my saltieness and the moronic dream that Mk2 would stay like it's resin form. Not 100% on the heads either, I may be hopping over to Achie's Forge to get some more old style Mk2 heads.

I'm so-so on the Saturnine stuff, I'd rather more weapon options on them (termies and dreads both) but I'll probably stick with splitting the box with a friend and he can have them and the disintegrators (not sold on them either) and I'll take the Mk2 and the platform. If the termies had more weapon options like autocannons and volkite culverins, I'd be leaning towards them but either way they don't fit into the ideas I have for any of my armies so I'll be passing on them. Same with the dread, if I want a ranged dread I'll take the Box or the Deredeo, I'd be much more interested in it if it was basically a heavy version of the Contemptor.

Rules I'm going to have to wait on as I've seen a few mention the 'advance' rules may be optional which would make sense if running smaller more narrative games or Zone Mortalis. I'm hoping all army lists will get PDFs at the start and not just the book ones, those new Mk2, Breachers and Rapiers will be forming a core of my Grey Legion Blackshields (or Greyshields?) so having to wait for them will be annoying to say the least.

Rapiers look cool, I like their look and the old look so either is a win for me and the Mk4 would make for good veterans as other kin have already noted.

Fellblade and Glaive (it'll be coming as well) I don't mind, I won't be using either as I don't really plan on playing high enough point games to bring in LoWs aside from the 2 knights I own from the Renegades box from years back.

[Indy Techwisp]

I've seen a few posts here and there saying that Vulcan giving everyone Saturnine stuff doesn't make sense because then everyone would be using it.

 

IMO, it makes perfect sense why it's not used by more people in lore:

It's too big, it's too costly and more efficient Terminator Armour/Dreadnought Chassis are avaliable.

 

If you're a Traitor faction, say the Thousand Sons for example, you do have some of these Suits per the new Lore.

But you're sure as Warp not getting any replacements from the Salamanders if they get lost or destroyed and good luck trying to fix it yourself since your legion doesn't have the resources and skills needed to manufacture more (and any allied Forgeworlds you have are probably only able to make the more standard pattern Termie Armour if they can make any at all.

 

If you're a Loyalist, you're probably not going to go knocking on the Salamanders' door asking to borrow another 20 suits if the Salamanders themselves can barely make any more after Istvaan kicked their teeth in.

 

And in more general terms these are just insanely big.

Can't really use them for Shipboard actions if they bang their heads on stuff that Vulkan doesn't even need to duck under and can't use them in a corridor due to columns and bulkheads blocking the width.

At the same time, there's 3 other contemporary Terminator patterns that are usable in more theatres, have more modularity in their loadout capabilities and aren't larger than the wearer's Primarch:

One is competing for the "sheer bulk" title but has condensed that into a chassis that isn't huge, another is an actual fast Terminator with far greater Melee efficiency and one is so cheap to produce that even Traitor Legions on the run can whip up dozens of them with an even half decent supply line.

 

Basically, it's great tech and Vulkan did give people it but it then immediately got hit with "Consumable Hoarding" because everyone's paranoid that if they use it now and it's put out of commission they won't have it when they need it the next fight and so on and so forth until Whoops the Heresy is over and you don't have the resources to upkeep the suits anyway.

[Jings]

19 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Yeah, that scale comparison cements my dislike of this new dreadnought. I almost warmed up to it then they revealed its scale and I just find it silly that it towers over something called "Leviathan". Just feels like bloat at this point. I would have been fine with it as a unit if it was about the same size as the other two.

 

Illogical. A "Leviathan" is a big fish. Saturns are planets. Planets are much bigger than big fish. It makes sense.

[Sky Potato]

Do the new versions of the Libers and the main rule book look any different down the spine of the book to the 2.0 books?

 

We had the red books for 1.0, and the black books for 2.0, which kept the editions together but distinct on a bookshelf. 
 

Are the new Libers close enough to the old ones to cause confusion?

[lansalt]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

It's too big, it's too costly and more efficient Terminator Armour/Dreadnought Chassis are avaliable.

That's not a good enough explanation, IMO. Many elite legion terminator units favoured the strongest possible armour they could use. Why weren't the IW Dominators at Phall or IH Morlocks at Issvan 5 using those?

Also, why would Vukan gift Saturnine to the Night Lords or the World Eaters?

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, lansalt said:

That's not a good enough explanation, IMO. Many elite legion terminator units favoured the strongest possible armour they could use. Why weren't the IW Dominators at Phall or IH Morlocks at Issvan 5 using those?

Also, why would Vukan gift Saturnine to the Night Lords or the World Eaters?

 

Vulkan may have gifted them prior to everything kicking off.

 

As for why the special elite aren't wearing the Salamanders special termie armour...

Pride of the chapter probably.

If your "best of the best" are relying on another guy's stuff, that could be seen as a weakness since your best of the best can be made useless if the foundational ally flips or gets eliminated.

 

Another reason the Traitors could have the suits is that they simply nicked them.

Which would itself spiral the Consumable Hoarding because now you have to worry about the other guy taking it as well and they're worried about bringing it because if they do and you don't then they can't recover any of yours to replace losses they had.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm excited about so much of this; the models, the rules, the energy behind the releases.

 

Want Saturnine Dreadnought and Terminators please thank you.

 

I must confess to my nerves regarding the vehicle rules aping 40K though. Damage stats on all weapons and the reference in the stream that the multi-damage Lascannons are better for anti-tank etc.

 

I don't want 40K. That game sucks. So nerves are there.

[Scribe]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

I must confess to my nerves regarding the vehicle rules aping 40K though. Damage stats on all weapons and the reference in the stream that the multi-damage Lascannons are better for anti-tank etc.

 

I don't want 40K. That game sucks. So nerves are there.

 

GW gamers need to find the resolve to divorce from GW rules.

 

We can write our own, and have a better game.