Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Marshal Rohr]

14 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It has helped to a large degree, a singular lascannon isn't popping a tank t1 any more, it often takes 3 or so successful wounds to have enough of an impact on anything big and that's with an anti tank weapon.

 

As you note the AV system is fine if tanks can't go poof from a stray missile or las round due to chance.

In a game that uses dice everything poofs because of chance

[Vassakov]

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Them saying on stream that the higher damage of lascannons makes them more adept at targeting vehicles, so perhaps not so much doomposting as cynically observant.

 

I do like Doom, so I'll take that as a compliment and totally misunderstand it though. 

 

I think it's more likely that the damage characteristic rather than the AP is a modifier to a damage table, representing the cascading damage these big hits can cause. 

 

And I don't necessarily think that it's inherently a problem that a single lascannon shot can (theoretically) wreck or cripple a battle tank, that happens all the time in the fluff.

 

The issue is more 10 Lascannon HSS's with a Signum for +1 to Hit, full rerolls for Sunder and AP2 means weight of fire is very reliable. And if you shoot them with your big tank, Return Fire means you probably loose the tank. 

[MARK0SIAN]

35 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It has helped to a large degree, a singular lascannon isn't popping a tank t1 any more, it often takes 3 or so successful wounds to have enough of an impact on anything big and that's with an anti tank weapon.

 

As you note the AV system is fine if tanks can't go poof from a stray missile or las round due to chance.

A single lascannon destroying a tank had gone away but vehicles weren’t any more survivable because at the same time:

 

1) They changed the wound table so you didn’t need heavy weapons like lascannons to damage tanks. Plenty of medium weapons which would never have been able to hurt heavy tanks could suddenly hurt them, often with some AP to reduce the save and multiple damage per shot

 

2) They generally increased the number of shots and definitely increased the number of rerolls.

 

3) They didn’t take advantage of the fact that they removed the stat cap of 10 and give vehicles T16 or something like that to make them tougher.

 

Tanks died shockingly quickly to the point that the vehicle damage brackets were pointless because tanks were either at full health or they were dead. 

I’m very much convinced that having the same wounding mechanic for vehicles and infantry leads to a no win situation in terms of weapons balance because it’s so hard to make a weapon good at dealing with one of them without also making it good against the other. 

[Marshal Mittens]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Agreed, but I'll bet 30 bolt shells that AV is going away 

I don't think it will be. Its a system that pretty much works, and a 2+-6+ save doesn't really allow granularity for vehicles. Everything ends up 2+ or 3+

[BitsHammer]

6 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

It only goes up to S8/T8. That is different! Not sure what the implications are for this, is everything to be reigned into a smaller scale (and if so, why...)?

It's from the quick start book so presumably it caps at the highest toughness in the box meaning the Dreadnought is T8.

5 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

Plausible! Though I can't help but wonder whether space was that tight in the booklet that they absolutely had to shave those final columns off. And if not, why create the entirely unnecessary confusion by having different-looking tables in the booklet vs the BRB? Perhaps just a lack of forethought. 

The book seems to trim a lot of stuff out like no Sergeant profile for Saturnine Terminators listed so presumably it only contains the vare minimum you need to play the game.

[Vassakov]

The quick start booklet is explicitly described as "A construction guide/first game guide" and "an introductory booklet to get you started with your first games" in this article so I suspect it will be very bare bones and designed for people who are new to the game of Heresy, rather than those of us more familiar with the core game.

 

I don't think the AoD box came with such a guide, so it's probably something they picked up on in feedback and doesn't seem a bad idea at all. In which case, not confusing things further by adding a whole load of stuff that isn't relevant is probably good, though I'm surprised that the Saturnine Hammer tops out at S8 in that case.

[arnesh88]

I am in the camp of that vehicle AV is still around, because I think that if they moved to Toughness, that would have been listed as one of the Top 5 Rules Changes. Would have been a bigger deal than Challenges, or added into the Advanced Characteristics section.

No idea how it would all work with the new weapon profiles. I think AP affecting Armour Penetration rolls and Damage affecting Vehicle Damage table results makes the most sense? Or only be able to roll on Vehicle Damage table if the Damage of the weapon meets or exceeds a certain value, depending on Vehicle class (like Super Heavies require D3+ to roll on the table, and everything else only deals a Hull Point). Maybe AP 1 = +1 to pen rolls, AP 2 = +0, and anything else is a -1 penalty (just spitballing here). Vehicle Damage table I think can work if Damage profiles (hopefully) don't mirror 40k. My biggest gripe with 40k damage is random Damage. Lascannons doing d6+1 damage? Too swingy. If Lascannons were, say, 3 Damage in 30k, that is more reasonable, especially since everything is lower Wounds on average.

[SkimaskMohawk]

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

[Cyrox]

26 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

 

No, plus technically its not arrived yet.

 

They have just posted this article about Valdor

 

Edit - fixed my duff spelling

Edited May 29 by Cyrox

[Matcap86]

Came across this closeup capture of the MK2 praetor sprue on Discord. Very happy to see that the nipple tassels are optional.

 

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

 

Yes. The Saturnine sprues are being melted down to make more Skaventide as we speak. It's never been more over.

[Petitioner's City]

There is a CHALLENGE PHASE!

 

 

Exciting!

 

(Pointed out to my group by the good Mr Craig Warren!)

Edited May 29 by Petitioner's City

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

Maybe it was only Hearsay after all.

[MARK0SIAN]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

Those Salamanders in the trailer certainly were :)

[Marshal Rohr]

They’re teasing it now for a December release, I’m telling you. 

[lansalt]

6 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

If we don't get a heresy Thursday, does that mean 3rd is doa?

 

The date usually given for the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre is 566.006.M31, which going by the Imperial dating system equals to Wednesday, July 25, 30,006 AD at 2:10 PM

 

[MARK0SIAN]

11 minutes ago, lansalt said:

 

The date usually given for the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre is 566.006.M31, which going by the Imperial dating system equals to Wednesday, July 25, 30,006 AD at 2:10 PM

 

I don’t think we will have to wait that long.

 

SATURNINE is clearly the clue

 

SATURday - NINth - Emancipation 

 

The only Saturday 9th in the summer release window is Saturday 9th August!

 

Solved! You heard it here first Fraters 

[Marshal Loss]

Hopefully we start getting some more substantial (i.e. rules) content shown on WHC next week.

 

A bigger version was shown on the stream, but I love how brutal the Iron Warriors Saturnine Dreadnought colour plate is:

 

[LostTemplar]

7 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

Came across this closeup capture of the MK2 praetor sprue on Discord. Very happy to see that the nipple tassels are optional.

 

 

What I'd like to know is how big it is next to a primaris.

 

Asking for a friend

[Captain Idaho]

Primaris are bigger.

[Sir Clausel]

Looks like legs of the newest 30k marines are same lenght. Where primaris gets there height i believe is their chest being longer. 

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

Primaris are bigger.

the Mark VI Praetors were slightly larger IIRC than Intercessors. 

 

11 hours ago, lansalt said:

The date usually given for the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre is 566.006.M31, which going by the Imperial dating system equals to Wednesday, July 25, 30,006 AD at 2:10 PM

First of all, how did you get the time? Secondly, it would be the coolest thing ever if the box officially released on July 25th. However, that's a Friday this year so that's not likely. 

[Antarius]

13 hours ago, lansalt said:

 

The date usually given for the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre is 566.006.M31, which going by the Imperial dating system equals to Wednesday, July 25, 30,006 AD at 2:10 PM

 

To you, it was the day of the Dropsite Massacre, the shattering of your legion, the death of your primarch. But for me it was wednesday.

Edited May 30 by Antarius

[Loishy]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned on BoC, but did you know that we could have guessed a long time ago (July 2023) that new plastic Cataphractii were coming?

 

I have a theory that I posted on a French forum in October, but since other users were skeptical, I didn't take the time to post it here.

 

I'll detail it below.

 

On the banner of the Legion Imperialis articles posted on Warhammer community, we can see a cataphractii terminator. 

 

But there are some differences between this terminator and those currently sold by GW.

 

1) The metal hoop above the helmet.

 

There is an extra ledge on this hoop that does not exist on current terminators.

 

2) The armor plates above the shoulder

 

The top plate appears less horizontal and more inclined towards the ground than those of the early plastic Terminators. The bottom plate also protrudes further from the top plate. On the right, we see that they are almost aligned with the current models.

 

3) Leather straps on the shoulders

 

The straps of the potential new armor have studs


I checked all the other Terminator Cataphractii units and couldn't find any models that could explain its appearance on the Legion Imperialis banner. Since GW doesn't usually use modified models, I really think this is one of the new plastic Terminator Cataphractii.

Edited May 30 by Loishy

[Nephaston]

12 hours ago, LostTemplar said:

 

What I'd like to know is how big it is next to a primaris.

 

Asking for a friend

30k characters are a tad larger than regular 30k infantry, but not massively.