New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Xenith]

10 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I'm not thrilled by the design of "heavy gives a bonus if you stay still instead of requiring you to stay still to shoot". I like having to make either or decisions. Get a better save at the cost of shooting and future movement with go to ground; move or shoot with heavy; go faster with at the cost of shooting with run. That kinda of stuff.

 

That's effectively how heavy weapons worked in 1e and 2e though: Heavy weapons always hit on a 6 unless they stand still, which is a huge bonus.

 

This isn't ideal, but being able to move and have reduced effectivenss shooting will at least let some other heavy wapons see the table - multimeltas will be terrifying now. 

Edited yesterday at 02:35 PM by Xenith

[Irate Khornate]

This feels like even more 8th edition 40k got mixed in to 2nd edition 30k. I am unsure how I feel about that.

[Misterduch]

Honestly if a meltagun is capable of one shotting a pred with a single hit without even accounting for the damage table, it's gonna be interesting to see multi melta, lances etc. 
Kinda wild to hear tough that dreads are staying at more or less the same wounds with the dorito.

 

Almost feels like a full melta squad is going to be major overkill 9/10 times

[SalamandersBro]

I like the way melee weapons have an initiative modifier. Seeing unwieldy go away is nice.

[Valkyrion]

A full melta squad into most vehicles was already overkill 9/10 times. 

[Misterduch]

4 minutes ago, HeinzD said:

Staying still with the lascanon gives +1 damage due to Heavy (D) 

The melta gets melta (6) which gives it armorbane within 6 inches 

Armorbane seems to double damage against vehicles and dreads

 

The way it's written it implies the damage doubling and armourbane both come from Melta(6) rather than the damage doubling coming from armourbane which comes from melta(6)

 

Besides, if armourbane is going to do zilch in regards to helping melta's actually pen tanks, they may do 500 damage a shot and Spartans, Kratos etc will still be invulnerable from the front. Titans even more so 

Edited yesterday at 02:38 PM by Misterduch

[BitsHammer]

2 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

So they've turned heavy into salvo? Am I reading that right?

 

Overall mixed on it, some bits seem fair others not so, I'll have to see rules for other stuff that's changing in this edition before comitting or not.

Heavy can buff any stat they want if you stand still. For heavy bolters it adds +1 FP, for lascannons it adds +1 D. 

 

Frankly I like the idea because it's more than just adjusting your BS. It also seems to replace Sunder when used for damage.

[Valkyrion]

Melta (6) means it has Armourbane within 6". 

Lascannons have Armourbane all the time. 

 

That's how I read it.

[arnesh88]

I gotta stew on this article. Like, not sure how I feel about it.

Hull Points (and I assume Armour Facings) are still in, which I'm glad to get that confirmation. Eternal Warrior affecting Damage was something I think a lot of us were hypothesizing (which is good, don't want Primarchs dying to 3 punches from Saturnine fists).
 

Heavy Weapons being more mobile is where I'm a bit more mixed. I think it's neat that I might finally start taking Rhinos for my HSS with Multi-meltas and not feel screwed. However, it's one of those "feels weird" sort of changes. I dunno.

Lascannons seem very tame compared to what I imagined them to be (which I think is a good thing?). Is Armourbane doubling D before or after Heavy(D)? Other people pointing out the wording of the Melta(x) rule make a good point, and after rereading, Armourbane is likely not the one doubling damage.

 

Meltaguns being AP2 is definitely a change. Might be getting rid of AP1, and can affect Vehicle Damage table rolls (if they even exist).

I'm probably jumping to conclusions, but I think Multi-meltas might be one of the go-to heavy weapons this edition. Being more mobile, and having a profile that's at least better than meltaguns seems really good (Especially with how much damage it can deal). Depends on points and if the Melta rule is always 6" or supposed to be half R (possible ambiguity in article).

Also gotta see if units can assault after firing weapons. I'm guessing "yes". Looking like this is going to be a VERY mobile edition of Horus Heresy. 

Edited yesterday at 02:56 PM by arnesh88

[Cryptix]

Of note, I don't think Armorbane gives the bonus damage into vehicles, I think that melta (X) gives both Armorbane AND doubles damage against vehicles within X"...or possibly at half range it gives Armorbane and increases damage to X? It's unclear, though I'd prefer the latter for granularity purposes. Either way, we don't know what Armorbane does but I don't think it's 2D6 armor pen or double damage vs vehicles.

[Xenith]

16 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

Honestly if a meltagun is capable of one shotting a pred with a single hit without even accounting for the damage table, it's gonna be interesting to see multi melta, lances etc. 

 

A meltagun is already fully capable of one shotting a pred with a single hit under current rules, even at 12".

We don't even know if damage applies to vehicles or if they will still have the standard armour pen rolls and damage table. 

[Bradeh]

8 minutes ago, Cryptix said:

Of note, I don't think Armorbane gives the bonus damage into vehicles, I think that melta (X) gives both Armorbane AND doubles damage against vehicles within X"...or possibly at half range it gives Armorbane and increases damage to X? It's unclear, though I'd prefer the latter for granularity purposes. Either way, we don't know what Armorbane does but I don't think it's 2D6 armor pen or double damage vs vehicles.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Melta confers both bonuses, that's why they have combined them into one. They could of put 'Melta, Armourbane (6)', probably feel less is more. 

Edited yesterday at 03:01 PM by Bradeh

[Marshal Rohr]

Plot twist, Armorbane has changed to mean only units with Armorbane can hurt vehicles, dreads, and automata

[BitsHammer]

10 minutes ago, Cryptix said:

Of note, I don't think Armorbane gives the bonus damage into vehicles, I think that melta (X) gives both Armorbane AND doubles damage against vehicles within X"...or possibly at half range it gives Armorbane and increases damage to X? It's unclear, though I'd prefer the latter for granularity purposes. Either way, we don't know what Armorbane does but I don't think it's 2D6 armor pen or double damage vs vehicles.

It clearly says that the Melta rule is what doubles the damage and is the source of armourbane when in half range.

[Irate Khornate]

13 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

A meltagun is already fully capable of one shotting a pred with a single hit under current rules, even at 12".

We don't even know if damage applies to vehicles or if they will still have the standard armour pen rolls and damage table. 

Damage (D): This is a new stat for Age of Darkness which should be familiar to players of other Warhammer systems. It shows how many Wounds or Hull Points it strips from its target

 

We have confirmation

[Marshal Rohr]

Nice, already having RAW arguments and the edition isn’t even out. It’s going to be the greatest edition they’ve ever made. 

[Bradeh]

2 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Nice, already having RAW arguments and the edition isn’t even out. It’s going to be the greatest edition they’ve ever made. 

 

It's clearly explained to be fair. 

[Marshal Rohr]

1 minute ago, Bradeh said:

 

It's clearly explained to be fair. 

It wouldn’t be Warhammer if two players did read the same words and fight about what they mean

[StratoKhan]

Will need to mull some of these over but some of these changes to weapons would seem to strongly favour Support/Heavy squads. 10 support marines with pumping out multi damage, or heavies firing heavy weapons on the move…

 

Unless there is a big change to points, how are Heavy Support Squads not becoming even more of a menace? They are even better value now.

 

Hopefully vehicles will receive their own advantages to keep them valid. I don’t think anyone would have said vehicles were overpowered in 2.0

[Misterduch]

18 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Nice, already having RAW arguments and the edition isn’t even out. It’s going to be the greatest edition they’ve ever made. 

 

I mean, it's a raw argument based off of a hype article, and it's more a matter of reading comprehension imo

[Irate Khornate]

6 minutes ago, StratoKhan said:

Will need to mull some of these over but some of these changes to weapons would seem to strongly favour Support/Heavy squads. 10 support marines with pumping out multi damage, or heavies firing heavy weapons on the move…

 

Unless there is a big change to points, how are Heavy Support Squads not becoming even more of a menace? They are even better value now.

 

Hopefully vehicles will receive their own advantages to keep them valid. I don’t think anyone would have said vehicles were overpowered in 2.0

Based on what I've seen, I can only assume that the vehicle damage table is disappearing. It feels like the wounding system for a vehicle is the same, so you'll still need a  weapon with a high enough strength to actually damage a vehicle however that seems about the only thing that's staying the same and they are practically dreadnoughts. I could be entirely wrong though, time will tell.

[StratoKhan]

Another snippet in the article is tanks will have more Hull points. Whether this is in fact compensating fully for the Dmg changes etc, we cannot say at the moment.

[Marshal Rohr]

2 minutes ago, StratoKhan said:

Another snippet in the article is tanks will have more Hull points. Whether this is in fact compensating fully for the Dmg changes etc, we cannot say at the moment.

Hopefully an across the board increase in AVs

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

That's effectively how heavy weapons worked in 1e and 2e though: Heavy weapons always hit on a 6 unless they stand still, which is a huge bonus.

 

This isn't ideal, but being able to move and have reduced effectivenss shooting will at least let some other heavy wapons see the table - multimeltas will be terrifying now. 

Every Legion is now cosplaying as Death Guard in HH 3.0. I wonder what the DG Legion trait will be as it needs to be different.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

1 hour ago, Misterduch said:

Honestly if a meltagun is capable of one shotting a pred with a single hit without even accounting for the damage table, it's gonna be interesting to see multi melta, lances etc. 
Kinda wild to hear tough that dreads are staying at more or less the same wounds with the dorito.

 

Almost feels like a full melta squad is going to be major overkill 9/10 times

Meltaguns will be eyewateringly expensive so that you have to pay an interest fee. This means you will have fewer points in the follow-up game.