Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[OttoVonAwesome]

So the new FoC is formations but not as stinky.

[roryokane]

Being able to take four predators in one detachment but only one dreadnought is BONKERS. Otherwise, I’m ambivalent.

[Marshal Rohr]

3 minutes ago, roryokane said:

Being able to take four predators in one detachment but only one dreadnought is BONKERS. Otherwise, I’m ambivalent.

Not just predators, that’s your basilisks, sicarans, Kratos, Russ, vindicators, etc. So either vehicles aren’t as tough as they are saying (likely with the glancing being so debilitating) or the buffed Dreadnaughts too. 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I am wondering where some things will fall in the unit types. Will scouts be recon or troops? Will seekers be fast attack or recon? Will every dread be in the same heavy slot or will some be in heavy assault? Will every consul be a command choice or will some of them be swapped around to other categories? Will all legion specific terminators be heavy assault or will we be able to turn them into command squads again? Will there be Rites (or equivalent) that lets you swap categories for certain units like Pride of the Legion or Recon used to?

[jaxom]

1 minute ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

I am wondering where some things will fall in the unit types. Will scouts be recon or troops? Will seekers be fast attack or recon? Will every dread be in the same heavy slot or will some be in heavy assault? Will every consul be a command choice or will some of them be swapped around to other categories? Will all legion specific terminators be heavy assault or will we be able to turn them into command squads again? Will there be Rites (or equivalent) that lets you swap categories for certain units like Pride of the Legion or Recon used to?

Until told otherwise, based on the articles I’d say any current Troops will remain Troops.

[Joe]

I just want to know how many new veteran units there are. We've seen the Veteran Tactical Squad and Veteran Assault Squad, however I'm hoping (begging) that that extends to Despoilers and Breachers as well. 

[Lord Marshal]

Vehicles rules preview. I'm sure most of you will have already read the leaks, but there are some vehicle statlines in there too.

 

 

The Titan rules sound quite interesting:
 

Quote

Titans, on the other hand, operate very differently, and there is an entire chapter of the Liber Questoris book dedicated to them. Rather than having various Armour Facings like tanks, they have several locations with their own Armour Values and Hull Points that can be independently targeted.

 

Reducing the Hull Points of a location to zero doesn’t outright destroy a Titan, but rather cripples that location, causing further attacks to roll against a lower armour value and cause devastating internal damage. Rolling on the Titan Critical Damage Table might result in the loss of an entire weapon, collapsing to the ground, or even mortally wounding the Princeps, while a particular stroke of fortune can detonate its reactor in spectacular fashion.

 

We can’t go into all the Titan rules here, but the changes come together to make their deployment a real event for players and an exciting challenge to overcome. Such majestic engines of war are gradually chipped away as they thunder across the battlefield, fighting on through damage that would crater lesser vehicles before emerging victorious or slowly, mournfully falling amidst the ruins of their foes.

 

We’ll leave you here for now, but there’s still a lot more to see – including a new system for Flyer Combat Assignments that makes Aircraft more engaging and interactive. There’s actually a whole system for infantry assaults against Titans, in which valiant troops climb all over the enormous war machines and desperately probe for weaknesses while the crew fight them off! You can even dispatch jump-pack equipped Space Marines to attack the head in close combat…

 

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Join us again next week as we find out more about the stars of the upcoming boxed set – the awesome Saturnine Terminators and Dreadnought – and have a first look at the kits that build them.

 

Edited Friday at 12:01 PM by Lord Marshal

[Irate Khornate]

So I decided to translate one of my 2e lists over to the new system and it's more than a little convoluted having to jump through the hoops if you want to bring as few hqs as possible. It also felt like I was being punished for taking a variety of things. On another note, unless dreadnoughts keep talons I foresee them being extremely sparse for 3rd because I had to bring a total of 4 hqs to make that list work with two of them being centurions and dreadnoughts were the problem children in that mental gymnastics.

 

Sure as time goes on it'll get faster, but still nowhere near as fast as the old FOC. 

[Astartes Consul]

43 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

So I decided to translate one of my 2e lists over to the new system and it's more than a little convoluted having to jump through the hoops if you want to bring as few hqs as possible. It also felt like I was being punished for taking a variety of things. On another note, unless dreadnoughts keep talons I foresee them being extremely sparse for 3rd because I had to bring a total of 4 hqs to make that list work with two of them being centurions and dreadnoughts were the problem children in that mental gymnastics.

 

Sure as time goes on it'll get faster, but still nowhere near as fast as the old FOC. 

Going to predict that the Mortificator consul comes with a fancy dreadnought attachment and is therefore very popular. 

Edited Friday at 12:47 PM by Astartes Consul

[Nephaston]

Quote

There’s actually a whole system for infantry assaults against Titans, in which valiant troops climb all over the enormous war machines and desperately probe for weaknesses while the crew fight them off! You can even dispatch jump-pack equipped Space Marines to attack the head in close combat…

Now this piqued my interest; having your lads climb over titans, effectively acting like a swarm of insects while getting swatted at or risking to get caught in the war machines joints  sounds a tad more engaged than simply rolling for melee while ideally having a melta charge equipped. 

[Irate Khornate]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

Vehicles rules preview.  snip

Finally! An article that doesn't fill me with dread! Im glad armor values are staying. I was dreading it was going to be like necromunda and go to toughness.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

We want the Legion-specific dice back. Make it happen, Gee-Dubbs!

[TheTrans]

So 3 Ststionary Lascannon 'Glances' kill a pred now no worries :/. 

[roryokane]

13 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

So 3 Ststionary Lascannon 'Glances' kill a pred now no worries :/. 

How'd you mean? the Glances don't cause HP damage, unless you roll the same status twice. And then they knock off one HP.

Edited Friday at 01:37 PM by roryokane

[01RTB01]

14 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

So 3 Ststionary Lascannon 'Glances' kill a pred now no worries :/. 

It'd be 6.

 

1 for the initial result. Then 5 stationary to glance kill. The chances of that arguably are slim. You don't deal your damage for multiples of the same glancing result.

[de Selby]

Applying the combat status system to vehicles is elegant design and having special rules for trying to poke titans in the eye is fun design.

 

So far the only thing they've trailed that has really puzzled me is the new detachments system and I only really have to worry about that in the purchasing phase (but seriously, why make it so hard to add new units to my army?).

[SkimaskMohawk]

Doesn't armourbane make any glances = pens? And the lascannons have armourbane? So 3 "glances" get converted to 3 pens, do 6 damage when stationary, and kill a pred.

Edited Friday at 01:44 PM by SkimaskMohawk

[TheTrans]

1 minute ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Doesn't armourbane make any glances = pens? And the lascannons have armourbane?

Spot on, so every 4+ a stationary lascannon gets on armour pen is 2 HP.

5 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

It'd be 6.

 

1 for the initial result. Then 5 stationary to glance kill. The chances of that arguably are slim. You don't deal your damage for multiples of the same glancing result.

Forgot all Lascannon glances are pens now mate, so 3 stationary glances is 6 hullpoints.

[roryokane]

3 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Doesn't armourbane make any glances = pens? And the lascannons have armourbane? So 3 "glances" get converted to 3 pens, do 6 damage when stationary, and kill a pred.

Ah. Fair enough. Three well-aimed lascannon blasts wrecking a predator doesn't feel terribly un-fluffy to me. I remember when a single krak missile had a 1/54 chance of popping a land raider in one in 3rd Ed 40k (before vehicle HP were a thing).

[Cryptix]

Laacannons still have to hit and roll for armor pen, which means it takes 8 stationary lascannons to take down 1 Predator on average, 6 if you can get the side armor, and with the removal of squadrons that 1 Predator is all you're gonna get. It takes around 15 melta guns to do the same outside melta range, 4 of them if you get within melta range. All of this is assuming no cover.

[Irate Khornate]

30 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

We want the Legion-specific dice back. Make it happen, Gee-Dubbs!

*Monkeys paw curls* it's now a singular die for  $7.99

[Marshal Rohr]

We can all worry about Lascannons, but you should also be worried about Heavy Bolters and Volkites scooting around to the side of Predators and Russes to glance that AV 12 to Death with 30 mobile shots from HBs or however many shots Volkites get now. 

Edited Friday at 01:53 PM by Marshal Rohr

[Dezron]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

We can all worry about Lascannons, but you should also be worried about Heavy Bolters and Volkites scooting around to the side of Predators and Russes to glance that AV 12 to Death with 30 mobile shots from HBs or however many shots Volkites get now. 

 

Heavy Bolter can't glance Predator from sides or front only from rear.

 

Heavy Bolter has RS 5 so max Armor Penetration score is 11, while Predator has 13 armor at the front, 12 armor at sides and 10 armor at the rear.

[Marshal Rohr]

Sorry, thinking of my IW Heavy Bolters

[apologist]

 

The previewed vehicle rules look good to me – togther with the shooting changes we've seen, I'm understanding this as a refinement and polishing of the underlying 3rd edition 40k mechanics, seemingly with the swinginess reduced, and subtleties built in to allow for greater differentiation between different weapons and their effectiveness against different targets.

 

If the fallout of this new edition is that there's genuine decisions to be made in picking weapons, rather than defaulting to the one that's been maths-hammered on the internet to be best overall (looking at you, las-plas squads), then I'll count that as a win.

 

The Titan rules look much more thematic, interesting and involving than previously, so I hope the promise that they won't just be 'big, boring tanks' to play with and against pays off.

 

The Knights rules are amusing – I reckon the lack of side arc is less to do with manoeuvreability, and more to do with the fact it's a PITA to work out whether you're shooting them from the side :D

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, roryokane said:

Being able to take four predators in one detachment but only one dreadnought is BONKERS. Otherwise, I’m ambivalent.

 

I wonder whether this was led by rules mechanics or by background? While I love a Dreadnought as much as the next Astartes, I like the fact that the Detachments allow you to attach what amounts to an Armour squadron to your basic Company; but Dreadnoughts are rare and precious.

 

Edited Friday at 02:20 PM by apologist