Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[01RTB01]

Brilliant, they're not monstrosities which means I won't feel bad taking them. 

 

Have to echo the sentiments too that plasma not being an auto take is brilliant. Having genuine choices is great especially as in first Ed plasma was bonkers.

[Captain Idaho]

Plasma looks awfully average and like it will be outshone by just about everything. It'll be range 24" and cause less statistical damage to your own side with Overload than Disintegrators, but then not breaking armour unless you roll 6s is pretty terminal - and not in the good way.

 

Disintegrators being Overload (2) makes them too dangerous for anyone bar fodder mooks, except maybe the Saturnine Terminators. They get hit per 1-2 which is bad, but then are only wounded on a 3+ and then a 4+ save.

 

Still feels risky but least they can survive a bit.

[No Foes Remain]

I honestly thought 2.0 got plasma right with breaching 4+, and having used it against custodes it did the job (I just pulled off the pressure on them and against some WB and paid the price).

 

Comparing the Plasma Blaster from all three editions....

 

 

Using the 'Maximal' as the baseline, it's gained a point of strength and lost a point of breaching. Smarter numbers kin will have to do the crunching for me but that's gonna be worse right? 1 less chance for AP2 for 1 more harder hitting? 

[Astartes Consul]

9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Plasma looks awfully average and like it will be outshone by just about everything. It'll be range 24" and cause less statistical damage to your own side with Overload than Disintegrators, but then not breaking armour unless you roll 6s is pretty terminal - and not in the good way.

 

Disintegrators being Overload (2) makes them too dangerous for anyone bar fodder mooks, except maybe the Saturnine Terminators. They get hit per 1-2 which is bad, but then are only wounded on a 3+ and then a 4+ save.

 

 

Like how the article talks about 'dominating' the battlefield at range, only for it to be 24".

 

Maybe the regular Disintegrator with me Overload (1)? Otherwise, yeah, huge risk to take in a lot of cases.

[BitsHammer]

3 hours ago, Dezron said:

 

Preator can dual wield Hammer and Axe.

Cool.

Might want to look again. You have to trade the axe for the hammer.

[Irate Khornate]

Okay, I'll admit I was wrong. These look to be balanced fairly well. And their hard counter looks to be either a special weapon squad with melta or a heavy weapon squad with multi melta.

 

I do have one major concern though. That is a 200 point Praetor with no upgrades. I hope that's a one-off otherwise if hq's have gotten more expensive across the board that's going to be a very hefty tax this edition.

Edited 17 hours ago by Irate Khornate

[No Foes Remain]

8 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Might want to look again. You have to trade the axe for the hammer.

 

Negative Brother, you can swap the fist. It's made a friend of mine quite excited, just had to send him a gif of Thor from Endgame to tempt him further.

 

 

Edit:

 

Intrestingly for 200pts base, it doesn't come with a ranged weapon as you have to buy the plasma blaster for 10pts.

Edited 17 hours ago by No Foes Remain

[BitsHammer]

10 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

 

Negative Brother, you can swap the fist. It's made a friend of mine quite excited, just had to send him a gif of Thor from Endgame to tempt him further.

 

 

Edit:

 

Intrestingly for 200pts base, it doesn't come with a ranged weapon as you have to buy the plasma blaster for 10pts.

I completely glossed over the fist part. Teach me to not read datasheets on my phone.

Edited 17 hours ago by BitsHammer

[Irate Khornate]

8 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Don't forget that Breaching in 2.0 is Ap3 so the Ap value for Breaching improved but the roll pops less often.

I completely glossed over the fist part. Teach me to not read datasheets on my phone.

Breaching is ap2

[SkimaskMohawk]

19 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

Using the 'Maximal' as the baseline, it's gained a point of strength and lost a point of breaching. Smarter numbers kin will have to do the crunching for me but that's gonna be worse right? 1 less chance for AP2 for 1 more harder hitting? 

It's definitely going to be worse on the whole. In 2nd hitting str 8 was a breakpoint for instant death on multi wound Marines and ignoring FNP. Since instant death is traded out for damage, the strength will only matter into big dreads/bits and tanks. For the dreads you'll still be looking for that 5+ to punch through their armour save. For the tanks, youll be able to chip at a land raider or other heavy vehicles (an improvement) and take wounds off av 13 more easily, but the str 7 profile comes off worse into armour than before because of how glances work.

 

35 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Have to echo the sentiments too that plasma not being an auto take is brilliant.

 

Plasma was already far from an auto take in 2nd and it was actually usually the worst weapon to pick; the auto take weapons were lascannons and multimeltas lol. Everyone but dicebod lamenting plasma getting even worse than it already was should be an indicator of its strength.

[No Foes Remain]

19 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I completely glossed over the fist part. Teach me to not read datasheets on my phone.

Words are hard, which is why I try to use ones with 6 letters or less.

[twopounder]

48 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

I honestly thought 2.0 got plasma right with breaching 4+, and having used it against custodes it did the job (I just pulled off the pressure on them and against some WB and paid the price).

 

Comparing the Plasma Blaster from all three editions....

 

 

Using the 'Maximal' as the baseline, it's gained a point of strength and lost a point of breaching. Smarter numbers kin will have to do the crunching for me but that's gonna be worse right? 1 less chance for AP2 for 1 more harder hitting? 

 

This makes plasma complete trash. We're also assuming that Breaching also becomes AP2. They could have changed it to AP 3 for all we know. But it loses instant death, doesn't disrupt FNP, and doesn't really provide a reason to use it above almost any other weapon upgrade.

I get it, in a game that is just space marine vs space marine, they didn't want plasma spam, but they've made it utterly useless now. Sucks to be a DA player now, I guess, as all the special units use plasma without any ability to swap them out. 

[BitsHammer]

34 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Breaching is ap2

Yeah, I don't know what I'm mixing up at this point. Apparently I need more coffee this morning.

24 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

Words are hard, which is why I try to use ones with 6 letters or less.

It's more that on a small screen the image is tiny and I didn't read carefully first thing in the morning. Mistakes happen, no reason to be condescending about it.

[Captain Idaho]

60pt Saturnine Terminators with 6 shots from 3 Disintegrators is 2 friendly fire hits a turn from Overload on average... ouch.

 

You know, with plasma being meh and Disintegrators being death traps... are these new guys going to be worth it?

 

Power armoured troops with Disintegrators are going to be so wasteful it's unbelievable too.

 

Also, the plasma issues revealed here has me worried for other platforms and their plasma... like Deredeo, Sicarans and the like.

[Brother Kraskor]

And so the hunt begins - looking to trade six plasmas for six disintegrators! 

Edited 17 hours ago by Brother Kraskor

[BitsHammer]

23 minutes ago, twopounder said:

 

This makes plasma complete trash. We're also assuming that Breaching also becomes AP2. They could have changed it to AP 3 for all we know. But it loses instant death, doesn't disrupt FNP, and doesn't really provide a reason to use it above almost any other weapon upgrade.

I get it, in a game that is just space marine vs space marine, they didn't want plasma spam, but they've made it utterly useless now. Sucks to be a DA player now, I guess, as all the special units use plasma without any ability to swap them out. 

That one has been leaked. It's AP2.

 

Speaking of which:

Power Axes will be wounding Saturnine on 4+ but breaching 2/3 of their wounds thanks to that +1S modifier. on a 5+ meaning they always breach.

Edited 17 hours ago by BitsHammer
I need some coffee apparently.

[Lord Marshal]

With all this Gets Hot Overload flowing like wine from these profiles (and Reaping Blow now being a generic special rule) I'm surprised they didn't use Death Guard as the posterboys.

[Captain Idaho]

11 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

 

Power Axes will be wounding Saturnine on 4+ but breaching 2/3 of their wounds thanks to that +1S modifier.

 

Power axes give +1 strength, which is 5 vs the toughness 6 of Saturnine Terminators. 

 

Any wounds they get will breach though.

 

*** ninja edit where I'm too quick. I should collect White Scars instead of Ultramarines. 

Edited 16 hours ago by Captain Idaho

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Power axes give +1 strength, which is 5 vs the toughness 6 of Saturnine Terminators. 

 

Any wounds they get will breach though.

Yeah I already caught that and edited it while you were typing your post.

 

For some reason my brain insisted that Saturnine were T5 and I don't even have an excuse at this point for why I'm struggling to keep rules straight today.

[Captain Idaho]

4 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Yeah I already caught that and edited it while you were typing your post.

 

For some reason my brain insisted that Saturnine were T5 and I don't even have an excuse at this point for why I'm struggling to keep rules straight today.

 

Fair enough mate. And your point is good regardless - all those wounding hits will be breaches.

 

Makes Axes look very solid.

 

 

[Inquisitor Verhek]

So, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but...

Any thoughts on the Thermal Diffraction Field piece of wargear?

It may be common knowledge, but I've been out of practice on all things gaming for far too long.

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Inquisitor Verhek said:

So, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but...

Any thoughts on the Thermal Diffraction Field piece of wargear?

It may be common knowledge, but I've been out of practice on all things gaming for far too long.

We haven't gotten rules for it. The /tg/ leaker refuses to post anything related to Saturnine, and GW hasn't shown it off.

[Marshal Mittens]

Honestly the plasma bombards kinda suck (3" template hits nothing), and the disentigrators seem like :cuss:ty multimeltas that can hurt the user. I do like the particle shredder, actually, but for 60/80pts these are getting bodied in CC by other units. The fears of over powered saturnine seem overblown. 

[CommissarXin]

Im just amused by the tag of HH being narrative driven and all the complaining that things aren't overpowered. (Not just on here but other sites..I've always been a 'This looks cool' player)

[Nephaston]

Thermal diffraction makes me think of the Mhara Gals Shroud of Dark Fire, which is reducing the strength of incoming Plasma, Flamer, Melta and Volkite hits by 1. Wouldn't be surprised to see something similar here. Maybe they'll also work on those self-inflicted Overload hits to mitigate any self-nuking.