Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Brofist]

ngl, my reaction to worse plasma is pretty negative. Time to kill in 2.0 with breaching 4 feelt pretty good. Not looking forward to even more useless 15 point plasma pistols.

 

The other part nobody is talking about- only two wargear options on the preator. Lack of options and weird weapon balance is certainly tempering my expectations in a bad way.

[Brother Kraskor]

2 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Thermal diffraction makes me think of the Mhara Gals Shroud of Dark Fire, which is reducing the strength of incoming Plasma, Flamer, Melta and Volkite hits by 1. Wouldn't be surprised to see something similar here. Maybe they'll also work on those self-inflicted Overload hits to mitigate any self-nuking.

Yeah it's gotta be some kind of anti-melta. Maybe a version of Eternal Warrior (X) that only works against it and nothing else.

Edited June 17 by Brother Kraskor

[Chyttering]

Assuming the vast majority of infantry targets are still T4, and the wound table hasn't changed (which I think I saw leaked? or possibly that was the melee hit table?), the difference between the plasma bombard and the blaster is meaningless - everything still wounds on 2s. Similarly the extra point of strength for going maximal only helps if you're firing at a tank. I think the maximal mode needed Breaching (4) or better to make it a strong consideration - without doing the math, my intuition is that trading an extra point of breaching for overload doesn't make sense a lot of the time. 

 

I always felt like safe plasma was a giant narrative departure in 8th edition, and I'm disappointed to see that carried over to Heresy.

[No Foes Remain]

47 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

It's more that on a small screen the image is tiny and I didn't read carefully first thing in the morning. Mistakes happen, no reason to be condescending about it.

 

My apologies, my intention was to make a joke at both our expenses which I did not communicate properly.

[Inquisitor Verhek]

24 minutes ago, Brother Kraskor said:

Yeah it's gotta be some kind of anti-melta. Maybe a version of Eternal Warrior (X) that only works against it and nothing else.

That's what I was thinking too. Improved upon by Vulkan, Thermic Diffusion, Salamanders defense against heat based weaponry, etc. Hopefully something that would make them more survivable to the higher wounding meltas and their own disintegrator cannons.

 

Why do I feel disintegrators are Super concentrated volkites? Or would it be volkites being more powerful disintegrators since they can cause additional damage?

[roryokane]

Am I the only one utterly dismayed by the idea of Terminators with POWER FISTS hitting at S6!? Unless I've misread something, they're going to be hitting at S+2, which is 4 base, so S6. Again, my 3rd Ed 40k anchoring bias is strong here, but S6 feels completely anaemic.

[Dagoth Ur]

6 minutes ago, roryokane said:

Am I the only one utterly dismayed by the idea of Terminators with POWER FISTS hitting at S6!? Unless I've misread something, they're going to be hitting at S+2, which is 4 base, so S6. Again, my 3rd Ed 40k anchoring bias is strong here, but S6 feels completely anaemic.

 

Nope Power Fists are +4 Strength Modifier (See previous page) so that makes marines S8 with them as before. The Saturnine Disruption Fist is indeed +2S for a total of 6 but it does deal 3 Damage as opposed to the 2 Damage a Power Fist deals.

[Jings]

Honestly with the changes to Plasma I'll be pretty happy so long as they come with a corresponding price drop, . A big problem I find with Tactical Support Squads, particularly with Plasma (and Melta though they seem to be in a better spot) is the price tag vs. how squishy they are. If the changes to Breaching shave off 50-100 points, I'll feel a lot happier bringing a squad of 10 along even if they're less killy - particularly if they get Line. As with many of the changes, it's hard to fully evaluate them until we see the points costs. 

 

Saturnines I'm a bit eh on. Not sure how I'll build those now. Disintegrator + Shredder fist looks sick, but the bombards are looking a little underwhelming (particularly with that 24" range). I'm not sure what I'll do with mine really. I'm thinking my Iron Warriors and Dark Angels are going to get a unit each, but I'm loathe to give them the same load outs. I think I'll need to examine the kit further to see how viable magnetization is. 

Edited June 17 by Jings

[BitsHammer]

44 minutes ago, roryokane said:

Am I the only one utterly dismayed by the idea of Terminators with POWER FISTS hitting at S6!? Unless I've misread something, they're going to be hitting at S+2, which is 4 base, so S6. Again, my 3rd Ed 40k anchoring bias is strong here, but S6 feels completely anaemic.

Iit could be that they Disruption Fist is different than a standard power fist. Maybe it's leaning on the idea of the "power glove" we used to see instead of Power Fists to make a similar, but different item.

Edited June 17 by BitsHammer

[Marshal Mittens]

Not trying to be a power gamer but these seem kinda terriable. 

Edited June 17 by Marshal Mittens

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Marshal Mittens said:

Not trying to be a power gamer but these seem kinda terriable. 

Everything in a vacuum always looks terrible or broken with no middle ground.

[Marshal Mittens]

That's fair, and it does seem like maybe lethality, except for meltas, is being turned down.  Plasma might be horrid now across the board. But still, these do not look great. Don't get me wrong, I will build and paint mine, and probably use them, but they seem....not great.

 

Disentigrator + Particle Shredder will probably be my go to loadout. Which is sad because I love plasma, but those bombards are rough, rules wise.

Edited June 17 by Marshal Mittens

[Chyttering]

Plasma bombards + teleporter could potentially drop in a completely safe corner of your opponent's deployment with no line of sight to anything and shoot at gunline units. I'm not sure if it's a particularly good tactic given the points cost, but it's an option.

[Marshal Rohr]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Mittens said:

Not trying to be a power gamer but these seem kinda terriable. 

They aren’t terrible, they’re expensive, so without other units points we won’t know if they’re too expensive for they do or not. Like 800 points for a Praetor and 6 Saturnine is terrible if a Cat Praetor and 9 Cataphractii Chosen is 600 or something. 

[Jings]

4 minutes ago, Marshal Mittens said:

That's fair, and it does seem like maybe lethality, except for meltas, is being turned down.  Plasma might be horrid now across the board. But still, these do not look great. Don't get me wrong, I will build and paint mine, and probably use them, but they seem....not great.

 

Disentigrator + Particle Shredder will probably be my go to loadout. Which is sad because I love plasma, but those bombards are rough, rules wise.

 

I think the Bombards do have a good but situational use-case. Six 3" Plasma templates that don't require LoS could do some good work clearing objectives. They're effectively shorter range Deep Striking Rapiers with an Invul save. If the rumours of a Herald/Command squad option are true and the Banner still provides Line, they'd be tough to shift off an objective too. 

[Cryptix]

14 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Iit could be that they Disruption Fist is different than a standard power fist. Maybe it's leaning on the idea of the "power glove" we used to see instead of Power Fists to make a similar, but different item.

We've seen the profile for power Fists already, was in the weapons article

[BitsHammer]

Hopefully with lethality toning down we will see the removal of artificer armor out of non-veteran or character units.

 

I don't hate artificer armor mind you but it doesn't need to be in every squad. And toning down the lethality would justify removing it.

1 minute ago, Cryptix said:

We've seen the profile for power Fists already, was in the weapons article

Yeah I remembered. My brain is acting like a sieve today and it's not fun.

[No Foes Remain]

28 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Hopefully with lethality toning down we will see the removal of artificer armor out of non-veteran or character units.

 

I don't hate artificer armor mind you but it doesn't need to be in every squad. And toning down the lethality would justify removing it.

Yeah I remembered. My brain is acting like a sieve today and it's not fun.

I'd say troops and heavy squad Sgts shouldn't have the option for artificer armour, only elite and fast attack to show the more... experianced nature of said squads.

[BitsHammer]

17 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

I'd say troops and heavy squad Sgts shouldn't have the option for artificer armour, only elite and fast attack to show the more... experianced nature of said squads.

I would say independent characters (if they decide to make any without a 2+ that is), command squads and veteran squads only.

[No Foes Remain]

26 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I would say independent characters (if they decide to make any without a 2+ that is), command squads and veteran squads only.

Only reason I say elite and FA is that veterans and seekers are, what I would consider, elite squads. Arguments could be made for sky hunters and outriders too, due to the more specialised nature of their roles.

[Marshal Rohr]

I guess they nerfed plasma to better draw the line in gameplay between plasma and disintegrators but oh my god just thinking how much plasma cost before they have GOT to lower the points or its going to be a complete and total clusterfluff of ripping plasma off these models. At least with resin you could just pop em off. 

[Captain Idaho]

Disintegrators look like death traps at the moment too. 1 or 2 and it'll cause an Overload? That's about 1 of your own dead for every 2 of the enemy.

[Marshal Loss]

Will say that I do appreciate them posting the entire unit entry rather than just a few text boxes, but I'm a bit disappointed by the plasma breaching change, that's a pretty hefty hit. Hopefully larger plasma weaponry on units like the Deredeo, Omega etc are worth their salt. 

 

Saturnine overall look OK. I want to like the axe more on the Praetor but I can't imagine getting access to reaping blow particularly often when he and his buddies are all bulky (4). 

[roryokane]

4 hours ago, Dagoth Ur said:

 

Nope Power Fists are +4 Strength Modifier (See previous page) so that makes marines S8 with them as before. The Saturnine Disruption Fist is indeed +2S for a total of 6 but it does deal 3 Damage as opposed to the 2 Damage a Power Fist deals.

The idea that they're somehow *less* strong than regular power fists feels mad.

[Brofist]

Saw this photoshop and I don't hate it if did something like this