Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Jings]

I highly doubt they'll be FP3, but now I'm remembering they're almost certainly going to be putting out 2 shots at 24" now that Rapid Fire isn't a thing the reduction to the efficiency of Breaching lakes a lot more sense. Sure, they won't have the same firepower within 12" as they used to, but they're going to be a lot more effective than before further away. 

Edited June 19 by Xenith
*phrasing!*

[Unknown Legionnaire]

6 hours ago, Brofist said:

ngl, my reaction to worse plasma is pretty negative. Time to kill in 2.0 with breaching 4 feelt pretty good. Not looking forward to even more useless 15 point plasma pistols.

 

The other part nobody is talking about- only two wargear options on the preator. Lack of options and weird weapon balance is certainly tempering my expectations in a bad way.

 

Yep ... Wargear ... oh boy. Personally, I'm very much afraid we might only see option in the unit entries / profiles  that you can actually assemble with a paritcular model kit.

 

Only two shooting weapons on the lazy Saturnine sprue ? There, you get two option for guns on them army list wise.

 

Two options on the Praetor ? It's an action-figure primarch-sized toy, people will gobble it up anyways, doesn't need more options.

 

Because GW doesn't like conversions much. Kit doesn't come with a certain option ? Model can't have it !

 

Let's just hope this won't be a trend, but rather a singular appearance for a new kit people haven't figured out how to use yet.

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Sadly, no kit or upgrade = no rules was a rumor floating around. I believe someone posted it on the C&H discord, maybe Petitioner’s City?

[SvenIronhand]

I really hope that isn't the case.

[BitsHammer]

We literally have a screenshot talking about using the Marines from the Rapier kits to represent a unit or character of some kind so I think it's too soon to claim that they hate kitbashing and the like.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Starting to see claims that plasma was never ap 2 and always middling against high armour saves to justify its further decline lol. What a time to be alive 

[Nephaston]

The options for the saturnine praetor (and by extension regular saturnines being limiited to what is in the kit does somewhat make sense, as any other praetor (and terminator) got most, if not all, of their options grandfathered from first edition. 

 

BUT, I will call attention to the sprues again; the praetors weapons and bling are separate, as are the squads weapons, arms, heads, and shoulder plates. While in both cases the bodies are on their own. Just looking at the rest of the 30k range, this smacks of further options down the line. Melee saturnine squats, perhaps with claws, or Obliterator-esque power fists (Obliteration fists?), Siege Saturnines with drills and melta cannons, like mini leviathans? Maybe all flame cannons.

 

Same with the praetor, the kit we've seen is pretty melee centric, and could easily have a more ranged sprue. Perhaps even use it for centurions/consuls. I wouldn't complain about a saturnine chaplain for the sheer buffoonery. Or a saturnine librarian with a real big stick.

 

Wishlisting aside, if the Journal is any indication then kitbashing is probably still A-OK, and it's not like we've seen the actual Libers yet. Also, while I have me thinkin' cap on, I wouldn't doubt to see a good chunk of Legion specific shenanigans still on the horizon, especially for those without any praetors yet like Sallies or World Eaters (maybe even with a variant of Red Butchers, all of them turned to quad-amputee marine nuggets, just frothing and thrashing in their de-activated egg suits) or expanded Upgrade sets that are a bit more involved than whatever SoH and BA got.

[TheTrans]

3 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Sadly, no kit or upgrade = no rules was a rumor floating around. I believe someone posted it on the C&H discord, maybe Petitioner’s City?

Thats bloody worrisome and pretty on-par with overall GW's vibe. There is some hope they'll be more 'specialist games' about it (posted before all the overly-positive swoop in on that one!).

Question is, in 2.0 were there any loadouts/models available in the Core books (not the legacy PDFs) that had Rules/Wargear that didn't exist as part of a kit in some reasonable fashion (Reaonsable being if you could still buy a Normal Space Marine command squad and use a banner. Unreasonable being 'oh there was a banner in my beasts of choas boxed set, so I used that)? 

Edited June 18 by TheTrans

[The boater]

23 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

Thats bloody worrisome and pretty on-par with overall GW's vibe. There is some hope they'll be more 'specialist games' about it (posted before all the overly-positive swoop in on that one!).

Question is, in 2.0 were there any loadouts/models available in the Core books (not the legacy PDFs) that had Rules/Wargear that didn't exist as part of a kit in some reasonable fashion (Reaonsable being if you could still buy a Normal Space Marine command squad and use a banner. Unreasonable being 'oh there was a banner in my beasts of choas boxed set, so I used that)? 

Just about all of the exemplary battles involved reasonable to significant conversions. Terminator command squads and destroyers did too. A large chunk of the legion wargear is model less. Hell there’s an automata that just doesn’t exist in model form (except very recently in LI), but has rules. I’m sure there’s other examples, but it’s a little silly to be assuming that GW is just axing conversions for a game system that thrives on conversions… let’s wait until we see the army list before we all start panicking.

Edited June 18 by The boater

[Brofist]

3 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Starting to see claims that plasma was never ap 2 and always middling against high armour saves to justify its further decline lol. What a time to be alive 

 

I saw the lengthy thread you're talking about and grimaced irl

[Brother Kraskor]

8 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I guess they nerfed plasma to better draw the line in gameplay between plasma and disintegrators but oh my god just thinking how much plasma cost before they have GOT to lower the points or its going to be a complete and total clusterfluff of ripping plasma off these models. At least with resin you could just pop em off. 

The thought that fellow hobbyists would actually rip their models apart, merely because they're weaker ruleswise than some might want, makes me feel sad. 

[Mogger351]

32 minutes ago, Brother Kraskor said:

The thought that fellow hobbyists would actually rip their models apart, merely because they're weaker ruleswise than some might want, makes me feel sad. 

For all it's differences it's still pushing the psyche closer to 40k, the same behaviours are there.

[MARK0SIAN]

1 hour ago, Brother Kraskor said:

The thought that fellow hobbyists would actually rip their models apart, merely because they're weaker ruleswise than some might want, makes me feel sad. 

I agree but I think there’s a difference between ripping them apart just because they’re weaker and ripping them apart because you can no longer justify running them.

 

If a unit has been changed to the point that it can no longer fulfil its role in your list or can no longer justify the points it costs then what alternative do people have? Either run an ineffective unit, leave it on the shelf to never see the table again or change it to something else. 
 

It sucks that anyone would have to do that but I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone to do otherwise and doing it doesn’t make you a power gamer or highly competitive, it just means you want a functioning army on the table.

[Brother Kraskor]

23 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I agree but I think there’s a difference between ripping them apart just because they’re weaker and ripping them apart because you can no longer justify running them.

 

If a unit has been changed to the point that it can no longer fulfil its role in your list or can no longer justify the points it costs then what alternative do people have? Either run an ineffective unit, leave it on the shelf to never see the table again or change it to something else. 
 

It sucks that anyone would have to do that but I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone to do otherwise and doing it doesn’t make you a power gamer or highly competitive, it just means you want a functioning army on the table.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree then frater. I understand where you're coming from, and if someone had eg. made an entire army of plasma guns I would feel bad for them. But outside of those people (and I don't expect many exist), there will be a mix of units that perform better/worse as a result of 3rd ed. Take the smooth with the rough, next edition the fortunes may change and you'll regret disfiguring your collection. 

[Antarius]

Things like this is why I never assemble my models according to what's currently the "optimal" choice (the other reason is I think it's really boring, but that's subjective of course). Editions always turn these things upside down (or at least sideways) and I like big projects to be able to withstand edition changes.

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I agree but I think there’s a difference between ripping them apart just because they’re weaker and ripping them apart because you can no longer justify running them.

 

If a unit has been changed to the point that it can no longer fulfil its role in your list or can no longer justify the points it costs then what alternative do people have? Either run an ineffective unit, leave it on the shelf to never see the table again or change it to something else. 
 

It sucks that anyone would have to do that but I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone to do otherwise and doing it doesn’t make you a power gamer or highly competitive, it just means you want a functioning army on the table.

I mean you described the same thing using 2 names and tried to make them sound like different things.

 

You're amending your minis because they're not efficient enough = competitive mindset. There's no sliding scale there.

[Captain Idaho]

See, I go the more pragmatic approach. If the rules suck, I just won't play. I'll spend my money elsewhere and even sell stuff on Ebay for cheap (like I did for 40K) and be done with it.

[MagicHat]

14 hours ago, Brofist said:

ngl, my reaction to worse plasma is pretty negative. Time to kill in 2.0 with breaching 4 feelt pretty good. Not looking forward to even more useless 15 point plasma pistols.

 

The other part nobody is talking about- only two wargear options on the preator. Lack of options and weird weapon balance is certainly tempering my expectations in a bad way.

 

Aren't plasma pistols 10 pts right now? And with the Praetors plasma blaster being 10 pts without replacing another weapon, I could see a less lethal plasma pistol going down to 5 pts.

 

As meme-worthy the praetor dual-wielding the two-handed axe and hammer would be, it might be possible to work them into a single weapon, halberd style or one weapon head on each side of the staff.

[Brother Kraskor]

4 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

As meme-worthy the praetor dual-wielding the two-handed axe and hammer would be, it might be possible to work them into a single weapon, halberd style or one weapon head on each side of the staff.

Yeah I've been wondering this. They're both so big though I feel it'd end up looking goofy. Gonna have to get hands on the kit! 

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, Antarius said:

Things like this is why I never assemble my models according to what's currently the "optimal" choice (the other reason is I think it's really boring, but that's subjective of course). Editions always turn these things upside down (or at least sideways) and I like big projects to be able to withstand edition changes.

Exactly. 

Rules change, models stay forever so buy build and paint only those you love. 

My Tactical Support Squads with Plasma Guns was one of my first units for HH and I always played them. 

They often times exploded, sometimes killed more of the enemies but always be fun. 

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

I mean you described the same thing using 2 names and tried to make them sound like different things.

 

You're amending your minis because they're not efficient enough = competitive mindset. There's no sliding scale there.

Yup that's one on one meta chasing behaviour. That's where the complaints come from as well is my assumption. The fear of loosing a position as local hero. 

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

See, I go the more pragmatic approach. If the rules suck, I just won't play. I'll spend my money elsewhere and even sell stuff on Ebay for cheap (like I did for 40K) and be done with it.

A man of principles. I support that.

If you don't like it, don't play it. 

 

 

I on the other hand will never sell anything anymore or give it away and will take every model to my grave like King Tut.

Edited June 18 by Gorgoff

[Joe]

We've seen nothing to suggest other units are losing options.

[Marshal Rohr]

2 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I agree but I think there’s a difference between ripping them apart just because they’re weaker and ripping them apart because you can no longer justify running them.

 

If a unit has been changed to the point that it can no longer fulfil its role in your list or can no longer justify the points it costs then what alternative do people have? Either run an ineffective unit, leave it on the shelf to never see the table again or change it to something else. 
 

It sucks that anyone would have to do that but I don’t think it’s fair to expect anyone to do otherwise and doing it doesn’t make you a power gamer or highly competitive, it just means you want a functioning army on the table.

The 40K Player’s mind cannot comprehend Breaching/Get’s Hot just isn’t a fun mechanic, and two fire modes isn’t going to make it more fun. 

[Jings]

It's rare I don't find myself on the alarmist side of things. Let's be real dudes, if Plasma Guns came out as FP2 24" Breaching 4+ the same people complaining about the nerf would be back to complaining about 3rd Ed having 40K hyper lethality. 

[Gorgoff]

2 minutes ago, Jings said:

It's rare I don't find myself on the alarmist side of things. Let's be real dudes, if Plasma Guns came out as FP2 24" Breaching 4+ the same people complaining about the nerf would be back to complaining about 3rd Ed having 40K hyper lethality. 

I you not I've read on Discord the other day someone complaining that tacticals always have 2 shots on 24 inches know just to complain five minutes after that about tacticals being boring in 2ed and doing no damage. 

We live in wild times. 

Edited June 18 by Gorgoff

[Marshal Rohr]

34 minutes ago, Jings said:

It's rare I don't find myself on the alarmist side of things. Let's be real dudes, if Plasma Guns came out as FP2 24" Breaching 4+ the same people complaining about the nerf would be back to complaining about 3rd Ed having 40K hyper lethality. 

I was thinking about it more last night, specifically relating to Thallax. If Plasma-Fusils follow the same nerf, it’s going to encourage even more Myrmidon spam, since access to different weapons in the Mech list is fairly limited. We really need the Libers. Hopefully we can get Cathay out of the way and they do heresy the Saturday after next. 
 

 

Edit: If the Ironfire Rite of War keeps the boosts from being close to barrage blast templates, I imagine we will see lots of Plasma Bombard Saturnine in IW lists in spite of the nerf. 

Edited June 18 by Marshal Rohr