Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Captain Idaho]

We should be getting teases for the big ol' Dreadnought today right?

[Matcap86]

9 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

The community: give us previews! Give us rumours! Give us road map! Show us all and show us early!

 

Also the community: it’s been too long now between preview and release. Not interested any more.

 

I mean, keeping hype going is definitely a skill. A skill I feel GW often just manages to fumble. Small teasers way ahead is fine, but showing everything and then weeks of dripfeeding info while being obtuse about a release date, makes me disconnect until they actually release.

 

That disconnect also makes me less likely to buy in.

[Xenith]

18 hours ago, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said:

I actually think i'd prefer RoW going away, to be baked into Legion rules more. It was always the hardest part to explain to newcomers who only had 8th and onwards 40k as a wargaming start. List building suddenly being changed up was confusing,

 

Rites of war and detachments are effectively the same thing, but from opposite sides - one gives you specific bonus if you restrict yourself to certain units, the other gives specific bonuses to certain units that makes other units not worth taking so limit your options.  

 

With rites, you're blocked from taking some units and encourages to take others, with detachments youre rewarded for taking certain units and you're actively penalising yourself if you take others. 

22 minutes ago, Matcap86 said:

I mean, keeping hype going is definitely a skill. A skill I feel GW often just manages to fumble. Small teasers way ahead is fine, but showing everything and then weeks of dripfeeding info while being obtuse about a release date, makes me disconnect until they actually release.

 

Like, you're here, and talking about it, no? Seems like their marketing was successful! 

[Marshal Loss]

38 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

We should be getting teases for the big ol' Dreadnought today right?

 

If it gets the same treatment as the Terminators/Praetor, should be the full page of rules. 

[Matcap86]

2 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 Like, you're here, and talking about it, no? Seems like their marketing was successful! 

 

Not really? I went from "oh I don't like a lot of those designs at all" with the leaks, to "oh yeah I'm excited and ready to buy!" around the preview event, and now back to: "eh, I'll see when it launches."

 

I think their insistence on not advertising release dates hampers them quite a bit in this.

 

Also I'm here because I'm a grognard who's way to invested in everything Warhammer, not just because of their marketing 

[Captain Idaho]

I'm hoping the Disintegrators on the Dreadnought aren't as terminal as the Terminators. 

 

But the other weapons, the Graviton Pulveriser, speak to me. Hopefully it kills stuff and doesn't just suppress things!

[Astartes Consul]

Has anyone else had a crack at turning a current list into something that roughly fits the new army building? Had a very rough go - without points etc obviously - and I think I quite like the new system??

[Stitch5000]

15 hours ago, Dudley Nightshade said:

Using a hypothetical situation, say you regularly play against someone who takes a lot of terminators. The games are fun, and your win ratio is around 50/50. Suddenly, a big part of your army drops from a 50% likelihood of killing your opponent's models to a 16% likelihood. Now you're going to lose most of the time, and the games are not going to be fun anymore.

 

In that type of scenario, I would absolutely support someone reconfiguring their models to get back to par rather than buying and building a replacement squad, which for some people might take months or years.

As reluctant as I am to lift up this particular slab... Are you proposing a situation where 2 people just bash into each other and use the same army every time without adapting to what their opponent takes or even trying to take an unpredictable new unit to counter the prevailing threat?

If you are, how do you even enjoy playing warhammer?!

Destabilisation of the predictable outcome is fundamental to how the game works (it's why we use dice and not a mathematical equation).

Also, I appreciate that some people build and paint things faster than the others, but taking YEARS to get a new unit on the board is surely an exaggeration? You get out what you put in to these things... If you can't find the enthusiasm to turn a new unit round in less than the span of a year, are you really going to take that much from a game anyway?

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

As reluctant as I am to lift up this particular slab... Are you proposing a situation where 2 people just bash into each other and use the same army every time without adapting to what their opponent takes or even trying to take an unpredictable new unit to counter the prevailing threat?

If you are, how do you even enjoy playing warhammer?!

Destabilisation of the predictable outcome is fundamental to how the game works (it's why we use dice and not a mathematical equation).

Also, I appreciate that some people build and paint things faster than the others, but taking YEARS to get a new unit on the board is surely an exaggeration? You get out what you put in to these things... If you can't find the enthusiasm to turn a new unit round in less than the span of a year, are you really going to take that much from a game anyway?

I think they half agree, but rather than in an attempt to experiment or shift the dynamic, they will simply exclude the bad unit and to save costs, pull it apart to make the good unit.

 

I think most would agree that a diverse collection to have options and keep it fresh is good, but I'm also sure there are some out there who have a fixed army they use and never expand/change.

 

The argument is whether that is in fact trying to follow a competitive mindset, complying to some form of meta or placing winning ahead of love for the models/minis. In other words, is it encouraging and conforming to the dreaded competitive scene.

[chapter master 454]

Not going to lie...personally...the saturnine stuff looks really nice...like I really like it.

Just wish these were rules for using them in 40k...

 

however they are tempting for trying 30k but sadly no-one in my area does 30k

[Marshal Rohr]

10 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

Not going to lie...personally...the saturnine stuff looks really nice...like I really like it.

Just wish these were rules for using them in 40k...

 

however they are tempting for trying 30k but sadly no-one in my area does 30k

The easiest solution is to buy two whole armies and let the people in your area try it out with one 

[crimsondave]

7 hours ago, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said:

I think they'd run out of steam very soon if it's an August release. 

What more can they cover with the rate of article releases? Unless they'd started showing off whatever is next in the pipe line (and probably getting boxed right now). Plastic Javelins, plastic outriders (in mark 2, maybe?).

We also only have two-three images of the breacher-marines shown off and one of that mark 2 assault. So, an article or two from those. Two articles won't cover the rest of June and all of July, lol. 

If the preorder is July 12th, that’s a July 26 release.  That’s one week off from an August 2nd release.

[Razorblade]

14 hours ago, Jings said:

 

 

I think you're zeroing in too much. Lets have a quick look at what we know about four Special Weapon options so far. 

 

Melta: Short range, high damage, low AP. Not much different than they've always been, but a bit less effective at one-shotting larger vehicles now due to the changes to Armourbane. Retains its niche as an anti-armour weapon. 

 

Flamer: Likely same as ever, but now performs moral shenanigans. Still good against light infantry, but now has utility against armour thanks to causing Routing. 

 

Disintegrator Rifle: High AP, low strength and RF, mid-range and blows you up. If it wounds a Vet, it kills the Vet. Anti-Elite Special Weapon. 

 

Plasma: Breaching has been nerfed. Based on the Blaster, looks like they're getting two fire modes - a safe one, and one that Gets Hot and increased (but lower than present) Breaching. We can extrapolate based on the Bolter profile that the Plasma Gun will likely be 24" RF2, it looks like it's being situated as the mid-range anti-heavy infantry option. 

 

Really, everything bar the Flamer has taken a hit. I don't get why people are getting so hung up on Plasma, which frankly, had its own very serious issues in 2.0 when used in volume due to pricing. It seems to me that the design direction for Special Weapons this edition is to differentiate the myriad weapons and, honestly, it looks like they're doing an okay job while reducing their overall lethality across the board. 

The issue is that meltas are obviously better into pretty much any target than disintegrators and Plasma. The issue is that Plasma is weak. Not weak for the points (which would be a competitive consideration) but flat out weak (which is a "is this enjoyable to play" consideration)

[Evil Eye]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

We should be getting teases for the big ol' Dreadnought today right?

We got some very saucy ones on the last page, and- oh, wait. Wrong kind of tease.

 

I am definitely warming up to the Saturnine Dreadnought, though I will also say I do wish it wasn't so absurdly huge. I feel like the Leviathan should be the upper limit for Dreadnought size. That said the design is great, really cool looking model.

[Ammonius]

12 hours ago, Nephaston said:

It takes multiple planets worth of fabric to fully equip a legions dreadnaughties in various lingerie sets. 

You know, I would read a book about the Emperor's Children carefully taking over a world with minimal damage just so they'd have a source of giant space spider silk...

[The boater]

27 minutes ago, Razorblade said:

The issue is that meltas are obviously better into pretty much any target than disintegrators and Plasma. The issue is that Plasma is weak. Not weak for the points (which would be a competitive consideration) but flat out weak (which is a "is this enjoyable to play" consideration)

But it’s not just “weak”. The blast gun that was shown off is str 7 (8) and has breaching 6 (5). Just because they aren’t a terminator muncher, doesn’t mean they’re just useless, they’ll be effective against the new saturnine, contemptors, and mech (all three of which you want the range benefit over the melta). The fact that plasma was an easy decision over melta in the first place showed that it needed a tone down, cause melta cost more points. On top of all this, none of us even know what the plasma guns stats are, so there’s not a lot of point in being so melodramatic. 

just enjoy the show off of new plastic and chill until we get the rules in hand. I’m willing to bet that they won’t be nearly as bad as your making them out to be now.

[Mogger351]

46 minutes ago, Razorblade said:

The issue is that meltas are obviously better into pretty much any target than disintegrators and Plasma. The issue is that Plasma is weak. Not weak for the points (which would be a competitive consideration) but flat out weak (which is a "is this enjoyable to play" consideration)

If it's fairly costed your argument falls to simply "it doesn't bypass marine saves" being the yardstick for unfun.

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

The easiest solution is to buy two whole armies and let the people in your area try it out with one 

 

So less than what we all mostly buy anyway!

 

38 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

I am definitely warming up to the Saturnine Dreadnought, though I will also say I do wish it wasn't so absurdly huge. I feel like the Leviathan should be the upper limit for Dreadnought size. That said the design is great, really cool looking model.

 

I still remember Pete Haines' Dreadnought conversion...

 

Think it was the size of a Knight. Anyone remember it?

[Astartes Consul]

12 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

 

I still remember Pete Haines' Dreadnought conversion...

 

Think it was the size of a Knight. Anyone remember it?

 

Is that the one that was based on the Heresy Trading Card illustrations? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Lord Marshal]

And some Dreadnought rules. WS4 Dreadnoughts is certainly a change.

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[Misterduch]

Gotta say the melta/plasma discourse is rather wild atm. We don't even have the stats or pts costs the vast majority of plasma, or disintegrators...or melta weapons, yet Melta is already being proclaimed as the universal super weapon while plasma gets thrown into the bin.

 

For all we know meltaguns for TSS are now 20ppm while plasmaguns are 5ppm...

[jaxom]

9 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

And some Dreadnought rules. WS4 Dreadnoughts is certainly a change.

 

 

 

I like that the Saturnine isn’t just better, but has a specific role: 6” move artillery tower 

[Evil Eye]

Man, looking at the Deredeo I think it's easily the most seductively shaped Dreadnought. Check out that (missile) rack!

 

...I'll get my pauldrons.

[Mogger351]

I enjoy that Dreadnoughts are less intelligent now.

[Astartes Consul]

The Grav Pulveriser is certainly going to do some pulverising, that's for sure. D4.