Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Dhar'Neth said:

• Abbadon seems bonkers strong.

I guess he has a weapon which deals multiple damage and the paragon blade from loken doesn't. 

 

Another guess of mine is that people widely underestimate the value of indirect blasts in the coming edition. 

Troops like tactical will have the line (x) rule. So at least one extra victory point per squad on each objective. 

Arguably there will be units with more than line (1). 

For those who stubbornly refused to play the core missions in the last few years I can just tell you than in  4 turns game where you score from turn one onwards you do not want one of those units from the enemy on objectives. 

Let's just assume tacticals have line (2). If they have two of those on their army that's four additional points per turn. We cannot let that happen. 

Obviously some of you are forced to play on more or pess empty tables where you can see every corner of the map from any spot in your deployment zone but on good tables that isn't possible. This is where the new barrage plasma guns will show their muscles. 

And if you can see them the new way of shooting blast comes into play as well. Having to role for hit ibstead of using the scatter dice is basically a buff from BS2 to 4.

Aona lot of hits which is the reason why they nerfed the Breaching value I guess.

[Marshal Mittens]

WS/BS 4 in dreads is not ideal in my opinion. They do not get many attacks, and giving all of their melee attacks a 50% chance of missing in CC against marines, or 65% chance of missing against elite marines, is a large nerf to their strength. A contemptor with 3 attacks will now kill 1, maybe 2 marines in close combat a round. 

 

Not great, honestly. 

 

Leviathan's, for their points, are likely to be in a worse spot. 

[Captain Idaho]

It's an interesting development. Dreadnoughts might be shifted to hurting elites and vehicles over infantry, but where does that leave them over the edition I don't know. Hopefully it won't be "shooting Dreadnoughts only" as I'm getting a Leviathan with Cyclonic Melta. 

 

Well I'm getting that anyway. I just want to be able to smash with it. 

[Dhar'Neth]

It all depends of point costs. If they cost stay roughly the same then dreads are definitely overnerfed. However if they cost 30-40 points less then they will be ok. 

[Captain Idaho]

I felt 340pts is a bit steep for the Saturnine Dreadnought when considering it with old points and capacity, so I reckon about 270pts is logical but at this point we just haven't a clue.

[Razorblade]

16 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

Let's just ignore the better range, twice as many shots and inherent AP2 on the disintegrator? I think there is a best gun for this thing, but it's not that far ahead of the others and it sure isn't the pulveriser

[Captain Idaho]

The range is 24", a mere 6" more than the Pulveriser. And miles behind a Lascannon, which has Armourbane and doesn't kill yourself to boot.

[Stitch5000]

11 hours ago, Unknown Legionnaire said:

Garbel garble chunter chunter.

 

 

Bro, the outer circle comments thread is over there. 

[Astartes Consul]

Obvious caveats about not knowing points, full profiles aside, I'm not sure that a few changes to make Dreadnoughts a less lethal really count as nerfing? One of the most consistent criticisms online about 2.0 has been that Dreadnoughts (Contemptors in particular) are too powerful. Based on our limited view of the profiles so far, they've hardly been made unplayable. It just looks like...balance?

 

As someone who takes a Deredeo as an auto-include currently - both because I love the model and it's really effective on the tabletop - I'm still not pulling my hair out over the idea that it might be a bit less efficient at deleting things?

[Gorgoff]

14 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

The range is 24", a mere 6" more than the Pulveriser. And miles behind a Lascannon, which has Armourbane and doesn't kill yourself to boot.

Take the Plasma morters to blast away hidden line units off objectives instead. Stopping the enemy from scoring is well worth the point investment.

 

[Razorblade]

18 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

The range is 24", a mere 6" more than the Pulveriser. And miles behind a Lascannon, which has Armourbane and doesn't kill yourself to boot.

That 6" is the difference between getting shots T1 and not doing that. The Lascannon comes at D1 and is not even an option on the unit in question 

[Dhar'Neth]

It’s all about context. Look at all the people complaining about plasma and it is only 16% worse at bypassing armor.

i dread that there will be some major internal unbalance, like meltas everywhere.

[Brother Kraskor]

7 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

Take the Plasma morters to blast away hidden line units off objectives instead. Stopping the enemy from scoring is well worth the point investment.

 

I like where you're head's at with indirect dire being crucial for dislodging Line units. But I just think surely this can be done cheaper - you're paying huge points for durability here, just to keep out of LOS anyway. Scorpius/Rapiers could do the job for much less than 300pts.

[Valkyrion]

Have any rules changed regarding non-infantry melee?

Given the poor melee output of a saturnine dreadnought, it'd be pretty simple to shut it down with a cheap assault squad over a four turn game.

[Brother Kraskor]

39 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Have any rules changed regarding non-infantry melee?

Given the poor melee output of a saturnine dreadnought, it'd be pretty simple to shut it down with a cheap assault squad over a four turn game.

Was there something about the loser electing to fall back? But even then they could just catch it and re-engage so yeah that would be a pretty solid counter!

[Mogger351]

A general reduction in lethality is probably as good thing if you've lived through the last 4 editions of 40k.

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah putting a little more emphasis on the the poor bloody infantry over mass pie plate destruction is a good thing.

 

Though a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers will be pretty painful reminder that big stuff does die. 

[Astartes Consul]

40 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Though a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers will be pretty painful reminder that big stuff does die. 

And you know what I like about this? It absolutely should. Seeing the article talk about the Saturnine Dread as designed to dominate the midfield, and then looking at the weapons profiles and points, it feel like rules design that is actually joined up.

 

Its 350pts. It has several load outs that look to be very effective in the mid-range bracket. But also, it look like it will be possible to counter it with, as pointed out, a close combat option. 
 

Or am I just buying into a hype?

[Brother Sutek]

50 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Yeah putting a little more emphasis on the the poor bloody infantry over mass pie plate destruction is a good thing.

As a former field artillery man I cannot legally agree with you. One of the reasons I got into IG was the field artillery.  That being said I don't tend to use it much with my marines and I do tend to use a lot of infantry. I want balance of decent support but infantry being valuable,  specifically basic troops.  I'm hoping this edition will do just that.

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

I like where you're head's at with indirect dire being crucial for dislodging Line units. But I just think surely this can be done cheaper - you're paying huge points for durability here, just to keep out of LOS anyway. Scorpius/Rapiers could do the job for much less than 300pts.

I have all of that in my arsenal so I am ready. It's just so annoying to see some very negative salty people being doomcryer the whole day.

That's my way to fight that.

Showing people ways of using things instead of lamenting about what doesn't work is the way to go, innit?

2 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Have any rules changed regarding non-infantry melee?

Given the poor melee output of a saturnine dreadnought, it'd be pretty simple to shut it down with a cheap assault squad over a four turn game.

That's where the skill of each players comes into play which is a good thing.

 

I feared the new models could be broken good but as far as we can say today they will be useful, they will bring something to the game other units can't but they are not iver the top.

[Captain Idaho]

11 minutes ago, Brother Sutek said:

As a former field artillery man I cannot legally agree with you. One of the reasons I got into IG was the field artillery.  That being said I don't tend to use it much with my marines and I do tend to use a lot of infantry. I want balance of decent support but infantry being valuable,  specifically basic troops.  I'm hoping this edition will do just that.

 

As a former field artillery man - nor should you agree with me! 

 

9 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

I feared the new models could be broken good but as far as we can say today they will be useful, they will bring something to the game other units can't but they are not iver the top.

 

Loosely connected, but I was thinking the roll of big stompy robot being shooty with double guns blasting away has been taken by the Saturnine Dreadnought and Deredeo... so the Leviathan might have to be less shooty and more stompy nowadays.

 

Which I like. Leviathan is the brute, designated nasty stompy robot. Leave the shooting stuff to others.

[BitsHammer]

I was thinking about it and between points and how tanky the Saturnine Dread is I am a bit surprised it's not a Lord of War.

 

It almost feels like it was designed to be the LoW dreadnought.

[Misterduch]

Welp.

 

That duel went about as well as it did in the books

[Marshal Mittens]

It feels like they Inverter is by far the strongest weapon for the dread, with Disentigrators behind that, and the plasma mortar and drav weapons in the distant back. The particle shredder is the clear winner fornipple weapons. 

 

Ultimately though, while I will 100% build and paint a couple of these for narrative reasons, I am not overly excited about their stats to points, and still like leviathan and contemptors more, looks wise. 

[Lord Marshal]

Quad-Accelerator -thingy sprue.

 

 

Quote

Much like the smaller Hyperios missile platforms, they’re excellent air defence weapons that can accurately track flying foes and shoot them down as soon as they zoom in range of the battlefield. With new rules for Flyer Combat Missions coming in this edition, expect to see more traffic in the air, so keep a platform or two in your back pocket.

 

 

 

Quote

That wraps up our look at the big new kits coming in the Saturnine box set, but don’t fret – there’s still loads more to see from the new edition, with a highly anticipated look at new army building rules coming next week.

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Lord Marshal