Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Nephaston]

2 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Yeah, but dreadnoughts have had 3 or 4 chest pieces and heads for almost 20 years. 

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding?

The newer loyalist dreads (read; Redemptor, Brutalis, Ballistus, and to some degree the training dread that is the Invictor) have been rather unimpressive in that regard

The Redemptor and Brutalis feature two chests and one sarcophagus cover each.

The Ballistus is an ETB kit with no variation

The Invictus features a pilot rollcage.

 

Which is all just a huge design flaw in GWs approach to Redemptor-class dreadnoughts, since they have the same general walker design with the main difference being the armour and arms. The arms can even be swapped between these different dreads without any magnets or glue. IF they were smart about it like the 30k dreads they would all have the same main body, with all the weapons on a different sprue instead of everything just mixed around. Could've saved them a good handful of grand in mould milling and storage space.

 

 

[Antarius]

16 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

The newer loyalist dreads (read; Redemptor, Brutalis, Ballistus, and to some degree the training dread that is the Invictor) have been rather unimpressive in that regard

My flippant response would be "The newer loyalist dreads have been rather unimpressive in every regard", but that is obviously a matter of taste.

 

A more serious reply would be that those are 40k not HH, so I think they might simply be designed to scratch different itches, as well as designed by different people. For better or worse, the newer 40K marine line seems to be designed in a much more streamlined way. I definitely agree with you that more options are cool, but I think it's a conscious choice for that part of the range, so I (sadly) don't think this signifies a shift in design philosophy.

7 hours ago, Nephaston said:

 

Actually reminds me of the other classic no-name terminator, just needs a massive honking frowny face

This guy is so great 
I hope they don't actually do a refresh of him, though.

[Nephaston]

4 minutes ago, Antarius said:

A more serious reply would be that those are 40k not HH, so I think they might simply be designed to scratch different itches, as well as designed by different people. For better or worse, the newer 40K marine line seems to be designed in a much more streamlined way. I definitely agree with you that more options are cool, but I think it's a conscious choice for that part of the range, so I (sadly) don't think this signifies a shift in design philosophy.

I'd argue the 30k approach to sprue layout is superior, even when going for a more streamlined faction lineup, 

Having built one of each of those dreads the could've all just shared the same body cutting it down from eight body sprues across 4 dreads to just two, while the third sprue in each kit could've been for just the weapons.

Same with the infantry; Intercessors, Hellblasters, Assault Intercessors, Infernus', and Desolators could have all been the same 5 to 10-man body kit, with the weapons sequestered on their own sprues, so you'd still have the same number of units and kits, but save massively on sprue production and storage. Could even include the veteran units like Sternguard, Bladeguard, and Company Heroes, but there I feel a dedicated 5-man sprue of distinctly veteran sculpts would have been justifiable.

 

And while I remain a massive 40k consoomer, 30k wins outright in regards to sprue planning and layout.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

 

And while I remain a massive 40k consoomer, 30k wins outright in regards to sprue planning and layout.

 

In fairness, yes and no. 30k isn't without some substantial gaffs. I've got more power swords and combat shields than I'll ever use. Between the assault marines, command squad and even just the sergeant options in the tac squads. Conversely, I'd need way too many cc weapon sprues to acquire the amount of charnabal Sabres I'd like to run. In the same vain, there's not a single charnabal tabar or third charnabal weapon (sorry it's late and I can't remember the name) to be seen anywhere. Bolt pistols for sergeants were like rocking horse much until they dropped the assault marines late in 2024 which considering 2.0 dropped summer 2022 isn't really acceptable considering how many kits had dropped by then.

 

The command squad had a lack of heads. The cc weapon sprues have too many heads and not enough variety. 

 

However, the interchangeability of the heresy minis is very much akin to what we had many moons ago with flat arm joins. This seems to be coming back to 40k at least based on my experience with the new EC plastics. I'd be intrigued to see if wolves are the same but I confess, I don't.

 

That said, people's mileage will vary and what they've done for heresy in plastic has been brilliant. To say it's flawless though is a little extreme. 

 

 

[Astartes Consul]

Looks like the MKII Centurion will be easily kitbashable, with the cape fully separate from the paldrons. Nice.

[firestorm40k]

5 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

Looks like the MKII Centurion will be easily kitbashable, with the cape fully separate from the paldrons. Nice.

That's good to hear, if I get one he'll match the aesthetic of my Castellan (who similarly has forsaken a cape ) 

[Son of Rawl]

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

In fairness, yes and no. 30k isn't without some substantial gaffs. I've got more power swords and combat shields than I'll ever use. Between the assault marines, command squad and even just the sergeant options in the tac squads. Conversely, I'd need way too many cc weapon sprues to acquire the amount of charnabal Sabres I'd like to run. In the same vain, there's not a single charnabal tabar or third charnabal weapon (sorry it's late and I can't remember the name) to be seen anywhere. Bolt pistols for sergeants were like rocking horse much until they dropped the assault marines late in 2024 which considering 2.0 dropped summer 2022 isn't really acceptable considering how many kits had dropped by then.

 

The command squad had a lack of heads. The cc weapon sprues have too many heads and not enough variety. 

 

However, the interchangeability of the heresy minis is very much akin to what we had many moons ago with flat arm joins. This seems to be coming back to 40k at least based on my experience with the new EC plastics. I'd be intrigued to see if wolves are the same but I confess, I don't.

 

That said, people's mileage will vary and what they've done for heresy in plastic has been brilliant. To say it's flawless though is a little extreme. 

 

 

 

True, it probably would have been wise to have a kit per melee weapon "class" per se, so a kit for chain weapons, a kit for power weapons, and a kit for charnabal weapons. Though I also think the general idea behind the melee sprue as it is is to trade parts with your mates, for better or for worse.

 

And then there's always the chance that they'll come out with a "Melee Weapons Set 2" or a "High Command Upgrade Set". Or perhaps the Disintegrator upgrade is the start of a fresh trend of upgrade frames anyway, and all this wishlisting is for naught.

[Burni]

They tend to have a launch day preview for new editions don't they? Am keen to see the breachers in more detail and maybe some new unseen stuff.

[roryokane]

3 hours ago, firestorm40k said:

That's good to hear, if I get one he'll match the aesthetic of my Castellan (who similarly has forsaken a cape ) 

Is that an autocannon? Is that even legal? *Cue Palpatine references*

[Son of Rawl]

14 minutes ago, roryokane said:

Is that an autocannon? Is that even legal? *Cue Palpatine references*

Castellan Consul. It's also master crafted, but that ain't the best thing about him. He makes Heavy Support Squads Line.

[roryokane]

 

22 minutes ago, Son of Rawl said:

Castellan Consul. It's also master crafted, but that ain't the best thing about him. He makes Heavy Support Squads Line.

That is sick. I should probably re-read the Libers (it's also a really cool model). 
"The Principia Bellicosa doesn't recommend that leaders act as heavy fire support."
"Autocannon go BRRRRRRRRRR"

[Son of Rawl]

1 hour ago, roryokane said:

 

That is sick. I should probably re-read the Libers (it's also a really cool model). 
"The Principia Bellicosa doesn't recommend that leaders act as heavy fire support."
"Autocannon go BRRRRRRRRRR"

Didn't you feel anything killing all those pledged to Horus.

Yes, I felt the recoil.

[Lord Marshal]

Rules preview for missions and objectives, mostly stuff that was already leaked.

 

Quote

Next week, we’re looking closely at how each of the factions play. 

 

[Antarius]

I'm not sure how I feel about missions being chosen before armies are built. I mean, on the one hand it makes a certain amount of sense and could support the narrative of the game. Otoh, it seems like it might also support annoying list-building shenanigans and skewing which might ruin a lot of more casual or pick-up games.
On the whole, I think I prefer that missions are chosen after armies are built, unless it's a narrative scenario that both players have talked about beforehand. But it's still possible to just agree to generate the mission after creating armies, of course.

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Antarius said:

I'm not sure how I feel about missions being chosen before armies are built. I mean, on the one hand it makes a certain amount of sense and could support the narrative of the game. Otoh, it seems like it might also support annoying list-building shenanigans and skewing which might ruin a lot of more casual or pick-up games.
On the whole, I think I prefer that missions are chosen after armies are built, unless it's a narrative scenario that both players have talked about beforehand. But it's still possible to just agree to generate the mission after creating armies, of course.

I think the intent is for both players to have the tools to play the mission. Folks will need to be mature adults and talk it out with their opponent about what type of game they both want. It's not like having a list built first prevents power gaming or skew builds 

Edited 3 hours ago by BitsHammer

[Antarius]

It certainly doesn't (sadly). I was just thinking that not knowing the mission in advance will make people more likely to create more of an all-round list as they will need to be able to tackle different types of scoring.

But then again, people will kinda have to talk in advance if the mission is generated before armies are made, as it won't be practical to show up to a pick up game and just hope that there's someone around who's made an army for the same scenario as you...

It's probably going to be alright, I guess I'm just a little apprehensive about this change at first glance.

[Stitch5000]

18 minutes ago, Antarius said:

On the whole, I think I prefer that missions are chosen after armies are built, unless it's a narrative scenario that both players have talked about beforehand. But it's still possible to just agree to generate the mission after creating armies, of course.

In practical terms, you either...

A - You have a pre-arranged game, you know the person you are playing, ergo know roughly what they own or are going to take to any given game, and have already agreed on what books you will bring etc, therefore this rule is kinda already adhered to.

B - You have an event format, you have no idea who you are going to play, just take an army along with you, have a list prepared anyway because nobody is going to sit and watch you make a list for 35 minutes, so agree on a list and just take what you have with you, so effectively you just ignore this rule or it simply has no effect in what you take.

C - You invite people over, you are playing at your house/aspirational hobby club arrangement where you store all your stuff. You have the home advantage because you supplied all the terrain and stuff anyway.

It is unlikely that this rule will lead to a spike in fully racked out "mobile hobby centre" vans, lined with magnetised shelves and a rapid list building console that allows you to select from a number of fully painted units stored in SKU-coded locations on the racks., which is pretty much what it would take to use the rule fully at an event situation.

 

[firestorm40k]

2 hours ago, Son of Rawl said:

Castellan Consul. It's also master crafted, but that ain't the best thing about him. He makes Heavy Support Squads Line.

At the moment he does - I'm sincerely hoping that he still exists in the new edition, as (currently) he's the only HQ I've got built and painted for my Imperial Fists 

[Astartes Consul]

Missions being chosen so early just seems a bit daft, to be honest? Doesn’t really take into account how games are actually run or organised in a lot of cases.

 

Also sort of makes multi-game events quite tricky to run. Unless you’re basically encouraging people to bring their whole collection and quickly rewrite a list before each game.

 

The article also reads like 4 turn games are a hard limit. Again, not a fan, although in practice most games of 2.0 I’ve played have only lasted that long. 

[BitsHammer]

14 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

Missions being chosen so early just seems a bit daft, to be honest? Doesn’t really take into account how games are actually run or organised in a lot of cases.

 

Also sort of makes multi-game events quite tricky to run. Unless you’re basically encouraging people to bring their whole collection and quickly rewrite a list before each game.

 

The article also reads like 4 turn games are a hard limit. Again, not a fan, although in practice most games of 2.0 I’ve played have only lasted that long. 

Events can choose missions with similar scoring so people can build TAC lists for those missions.

 

Kind of like how they currently pick missions before people submit lists now.

[Stitch5000]

24 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

Missions being chosen so early just seems a bit daft, to be honest? Doesn’t really take into account how games are actually run or organised in a lot of cases.

This is true, however most events completely overrule a lot of basic pre-game stuff anyway... People just do it without a second-thought because it is the general nature of it.

I find that MOST people build and paint a 3000pt list and don't really end up getting many "variations" on that list, because, well, it's a lot of models to buy and paint. (I am fully aware that veteran players and super serious dudes sometimes end up with WAY more than this, but even in those cases, people often have a list they like and are comfortable with.)

 

[Marshal Rohr]

2 hours ago, Antarius said:

I'm not sure how I feel about missions being chosen before armies are built. I mean, on the one hand it makes a certain amount of sense and could support the narrative of the game. Otoh, it seems like it might also support annoying list-building shenanigans and skewing which might ruin a lot of more casual or pick-up games.
On the whole, I think I prefer that missions are chosen after armies are built, unless it's a narrative scenario that both players have talked about beforehand. But it's still possible to just agree to generate the mission after creating armies, of course.

Good old twenty Lascannons and 30 Disintegrators, nothing beats that. 

[Mogger351]

39 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

This is true, however most events completely overrule a lot of basic pre-game stuff anyway... People just do it without a second-thought because it is the general nature of it.

I find that MOST people build and paint a 3000pt list and don't really end up getting many "variations" on that list, because, well, it's a lot of models to buy and paint. (I am fully aware that veteran players and super serious dudes sometimes end up with WAY more than this, but even in those cases, people often have a list they like and are comfortable with.)

 

I exist in a circle of people that arrange game beforehand anyway, they will actively try not to tailor too much, but that's just an "ideal" scenario for what feels like a completely insane change on the mission order.

 

I can't imagine going to Heresy night at the club for a pick up game and spending 30 mins making an army on pen and paper (as GW imagine you do given there is no companion app).

[01RTB01]

Brilliant.

 

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