Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Nephaston]

6 hours ago, Cleon said:

I have to put a counter viewpoint - the 30k layout restricts all the marines to the same 5 poses, whereas the 40k set up gives you different stances across the different unit types of the same armour.

Counter-intuitively I think the basic mook being limited to 5 stances is a nice feature, as it hopefully should incentivise someone to do a bit more than simply glue their lads and give them a basic paintjob. A liberal application of drills, saws, files, green stuff, some freehand painting, creative transfer use, painting or sculpting battle damage, transplanting parts across armour marks or the assault kit of the same mark.

 

Then again having the basic mook npc legionnaire be another carbon copy of the no-name cannon-fodder dork next to him is also probably fine since they're all going to die in a ditch unrecognised and forgotten anyway. 

 

If I had to guess though, once they're done with the five basic legionary kits we'll probably see them move on to finish assault squads, and maybe even start releasing some of the skews that would justify a differentiated sprue like recon squads, or veteran variants of the existing marks, or sub-marks, or maybe even simply expanding the basic array to ten so everyone can buy even more marines. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

If i have to have fixed poses, id prefer similar ones that don't stand out. Kinda like old metal model syndrome, or plague Marines that are all super unique...until they're duplicated. Horde of similar dudes works great for unit and army visual coherencey in both 40k and fantasy settings

[Jings]

I'm a bit torn on the 5-pose issue to be honest. Overall I think it was a clever decision considering Nu-GW kit design philosophy in that it allows for cross-compatibility of the various upgrade sets across the armour marks, but in an ideal world they would have had 10 unique poses. That said, after building up over 40 White Scars and 20 Dark Angel tacs with probably over half using those bodies, I haven't really found much of an issue with the variety. The option to swap over bolters and still magnetize for special weapons is also very nice. 

 

As with all things in the hobby it's nothing that can't really be solved with creative modeling. At the very least, it's not as rough a situation as the modern 40K kits. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

5 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Or ring boy. Gotta be something for everyone 

Maybe it´s just not for you.

[Marshal Rohr]

I used to hate the five poses but it definitely stops being a problem when you start shifting the arms and bolters around. It actually makes assembly way easier because you can assemble 4 Body 1s and Arms 1, 2, 3, and 4 and then you’ve got 4 dudes done in the time it used to take to clean and super glue one resin legionary. 

[Nephaston]

18 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I used to hate the five poses but it definitely stops being a problem when you start shifting the arms and bolters around. It actually makes assembly way easier because you can assemble 4 Body 1s and Arms 1, 2, 3, and 4 and then you’ve got 4 dudes done in the time it used to take to clean and super glue one resin legionary. 

Yeah, just going by leg and bolter arm combos alone should yield 25 different poses without accounting for head angle, sergeant options, pilfered non-melee options from the melee upgrades, exchanging bits across rapier crew, assault squads, or bikers, or using the resin upgrades if making BA or SoH. The sky (and wallet) is the limit.

[Marshal Loss]

Vehicle rules (split fire!):

 

[Marshal Rohr]

True line of sight is totally gone, I’m going through the shooting rules now. 

[Brofist]

3 pages of shooting rules and I still got questions. I'm unclear- are wounds spilling over into models that are out of LOS?

[Marshal Rohr]

18 minutes ago, Brofist said:

3 pages of shooting rules and I still got questions. I'm unclear- are wounds spilling over into models that are out of LOS?

That’s what the designer note carve out for improbable casualties means, if I understand correctly. 

[Brofist]

Yep, but it also says 'may' and then talks about discarding anything that isn't a valid target (and a valid target must be in range and LOS?) Just gonna drop this in here for discussion:

 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I don’t understand how, if a model is in Heavy area terrain, it gets a 4+ cover save…but also, you cannot shoot through any amount of Heavy area terrain. Which is it?

[Marshal Rohr]

14 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

I don’t understand how, if a model is in Heavy area terrain, it gets a 4+ cover save…but also, you cannot shoot through any amount of Heavy area terrain. Which is it?

I think for the special cases when a weapon ignores LOS but doesn’t also ignore cover.
 

 

Edit: feels weird they spent so much time on split fire only for sponsons and pintles to never be effected by it

Edited 20 hours ago by Marshal Rohr

[Cenobite Terminator]

I’m okay with fixed poses… it’s pretty much the way it is now.

[Marshal Rohr]

1 hour ago, Brofist said:

Yep, but it also says 'may' and then talks about discarding anything that isn't a valid target (and a valid target must be in range and LOS?) Just gonna drop this in here for discussion:

 

In the earlier steps only your models that can see one model in an enemy unit can shoot at that unit. The part you have underlined is about discarding excess wounds or penetrating hits if you have 6 wounds, and no more penetrating hits. The spill over portion comes later when all wounds must be applied to all failed saves or whatever. 
 

 

I think the application will end up being something like if you’re in a scenario where you’re shooting at weird angles you won’t have enough shots for it to come into play. For instance your tactical squad in the open is shooting at a squad behind a wall and can only see the first guy, the wounds would spill over but your entire tactical squad can’t see the remaining guys in the target squad because it’s more than three inches into medium cover. So only the first guy can be shot anyway. 
 

 

 

edit 2: after reading the whole section several times I think the “limiter” on this is definitely preventing models that can’t draw line of sight to one model in a unit from shooting at that unit. The 3 inch depth on LOS for terrain is pretty punishing. You’ve got a squad of ten guys two inches apart and two deep you’re looking at rarely getting the whole unit to shoot at anything unless you’re walking down a street. 

Edited 19 hours ago by Marshal Rohr

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

True line of sight is totally gone, I’m going through the shooting rules now. 

Where can I read the shooting rules?

 

Vehicle rules looking fine by me. 

Sponsons always count as defensive weapons is a nice boost for them. Being able to shoot freely at different targets is a thing I missed since 2ed 40k. They also removed the odd way how range was measured by the muzzles of vehicle guns but line of sight wasn't. Now it is clearer and easier. I like the way vehicles ram now without having to hsve a complicated rule section about it.

You drove over enemy models?

They get d6 s6 hits.

Easy and simple but yet effectively shows what happens.

 

5 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I think for the special cases when a weapon ignores LOS but doesn’t also ignore cover.
 

 

Edit: feels weird they spent so much time on split fire only for sponsons and pintles to never be effected by it

Kratos has several weapons which aren't sponsons, no? 

 

What that also means it that you definitely want a defensive weapon in a turret or just don't split fire in most cases. Either way it is nice to have the flexibility if needed. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

The whole rulebook has been leaked one month before release?!

[Nephaston]

2 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The whole rulebook has been leaked one month before release?!

Not quite; someone bought a stolen box from Ebay and leaking select parts of the rulebook according to requests and their mood. They have for instance outright refused to post anything that is unchanged from 2.0, anything to do with with the lore sections, especially if they dislike what they've read so far, or anything else if they were not in the mood for, while demanding pictures of other users projects in exchange.

 

They've also built a bit of everything in the box but the Terminators out of a personal disdain for the models, so I'm not sure if they have amazing restraint to not leak everything or if we are witnessing a vulgar display of plastic dolly neurodivergency.

[Marshal Rohr]

3 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Not quite; someone bought a stolen box from Ebay and leaking select parts of the rulebook according to requests and their mood. They have for instance outright refused to post anything that is unchanged from 2.0, anything to do with with the lore sections, especially if they dislike what they've read so far, or anything else if they were not in the mood for, while demanding pictures of other users projects in exchange.

 

They've also built a bit of everything in the box but the Terminators out of a personal disdain for the models, so I'm not sure if they have amazing restraint to not leak everything or if we are witnessing a vulgar display of plastic dolly neurodivergency.

Wait until we’ve got the whole thing before we start calling the kettle a train collector. 

[Marshal Rohr]

4 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

Where can I read the shooting rules?

 

Vehicle rules looking fine by me. 

Sponsons always count as defensive weapons is a nice boost for them. Being able to shoot freely at different targets is a thing I missed since 2ed 40k. They also removed the odd way how range was measured by the muzzles of vehicle guns but line of sight wasn't. Now it is clearer and easier. I like the way vehicles ram now without having to hsve a complicated rule section about it.

You drove over enemy models?

They get d6 s6 hits.

Easy and simple but yet effectively shows what happens.

 

Kratos has several weapons which aren't sponsons, no? 

 

What that also means it that you definitely want a defensive weapon in a turret or just don't split fire in most cases. Either way it is nice to have the flexibility if needed. 

I’m not sure about the Kratos, I never bought one (held out for the Fellblade). Pintle mounts also always count as defensive and have a 360 degree arc so if you wanted to pay the points for it you could do like a destructor with Turret Lascannons, Sponson Lascannons, and Pintle Havoc and then no matter what you only ever miss a shot with a single sponson Lascannon unless it’s right in front of you. Melta would be expensive but then all your shots are Armorbane. I think this is why glances do hullpoints damage too, because this is quite the boost to tanks which is weird they didn’t cover it in the article. 

[Waaagh?]

16 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I used to hate the five poses but it definitely stops being a problem when you start shifting the arms and bolters around. It actually makes assembly way easier because you can assemble 4 Body 1s and Arms 1, 2, 3, and 4 and then you’ve got 4 dudes done in the time it used to take to clean and super glue one resin legionary. 

 

Yeah, exactly heads and arms make a huge difference.

 

And let's be honest for those who lament the loss of the seperate legs and torso, how much possibility did it really give you if you're being honest? Torso slightly to the left or right is about the most you got.

 

With the newer style you get far more natural and better looking poses. Sure it's limited to 5 but really how many ways can someone stand?

[No Foes Remain]

5 minutes ago, Waaagh? said:

 

Yeah, exactly heads and arms make a huge difference.

 

And let's be honest for those who lament the loss of the seperate legs and torso, how much possibility did it really give you if you're being honest? Torso slightly to the left or right is about the most you got.

 

With the newer style you get far more natural and better looking poses. Sure it's limited to 5 but really how many ways can someone stand?

For me, it's less the posability and more not being able to swap legs and torsos to break up the same poses a bit more.

[Marshal Rohr]

36 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

For me, it's less the posability and more not being able to swap legs and torsos to break up the same poses a bit more.

I have a suspicion that can’t be confirmed yet, but I am thinking Mark 4 and 6 will be cut the same way and Mark 2 and 3 will be cut the same way. So you can do Frankenmarines with the Mark 3 torso/thighs and mark 2 heads shoulders and arms. 

[Waaagh?]

39 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

For me, it's less the posability and more not being able to swap legs and torsos to break up the same poses a bit more.

 

That's still easily done. 

[jaxom]

Correct. These four are all easy conversions of the same base body pose.