Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I kinda like the vehilce rules, but that's about it.

 

The rest of those rules look exactly like what I was expecting from the first leaks (and also from what they did to their 'wording' in TOW), a garbled word-salad mess made for illiterates and people happy to discuss more than actually play the game. 

And still I am hoping I will be proven wrong.

 

On the upside, I tremendously enjoyed the 'early-80's-action-figure-style-saturday-morning-cartoon' trailer which they dropped. 

That was lovely. One bonus hug for that.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Ah, yes, the primary target of convoluted writing: illiterates. It’s why Dostoyevsky is read in Kindergartens. 

[HeadlessCross]

On 6/26/2025 at 6:08 AM, BitsHammer said:

I think the intent is for both players to have the tools to play the mission. Folks will need to be mature adults and talk it out with their opponent about what type of game they both want. It's not like having a list built first prevents power gaming or skew builds 

Yeah list tailoring is totally awesome and somehow not as bad as just making an optimized list!

[SkimaskMohawk]

I prefer the editions of games where models block each other from moving, though I do enjoy that tank shock is also essentially baked into vehicle movement now too. 

[Taliesin]

Have they shown a table of contents of the new rulebook somewhere in these links?

Edited 14 hours ago by Taliesin

[Gorgoff]

https://imgur.com/a/dcKhPGI

 

The last bit the leaker shows is the line of sight rules and those for terrain and shooting and jerzuz do they suck.

True line of sight is gone.

A small Rhino completely blocks line of sight to the Saturnine Dreadnought behind it. 

A little piece of terrain  locks everything as well. Granted we can always declare that as light terrain in which case it doesn't block anything but that vehicles block line of sight no matter what is beyond stupid.

That we can kill models now outside line of sight is also beyond terrible. 

"Well well well,I can see one dude of your unit. I can kill now the whole squad."

[Marshal Rohr]

Pretty sure a rhino blocking line of sight to a Saturnine also blocks the Saturnines line of sight. YMMV but I’d rather that than endlessly arguing over TLOS with laser pointers. Maybe don’t think of it as line of sight, think of it as a clear fire lane. 

[Wibbling]

3 hours ago, Unknown Legionnaire said:

 a garbled word-salad mess made for illiterates and people happy to discuss more than actually play the game. 

 

 

 

Reading them it appears one needs to be highly literate! They're certainly complex and are written for 'rules lawyers' rather than perhaps more casual gamers. 

 

One of our club messaged me about them referencing that some international treaty docs were easier to read. Them's the breaks, I suppose. Writing rules is very difficult. We tried with our own group to simplify some of them and found many edge cases we couldn't account for. 

[Djangomatic82]

1 hour ago, Gorgoff said:

https://imgur.com/a/dcKhPGI

 

The last bit the leaker shows is the line of sight rules and those for terrain and shooting and jerzuz do they suck.

True line of sight is gone.

A small Rhino completely blocks line of sight to the Saturnine Dreadnought behind it. 

A little piece of terrain  locks everything as well. Granted we can always declare that as light terrain in which case it doesn't block anything but that vehicles block line of sight no matter what is beyond stupid.

That we can kill models now outside line of sight is also beyond terrible. 

"Well well well,I can see one dude of your unit. I can kill now the whole squad."

I liked most of the new rules at first, but as more are leaked, it looks like there is a bleed through of some of the worst 10th ed. rules and design philosophy from 40k into this new edition. The LoS and taking wounds from models out of LoS are a good example.

I think Liber Panoptica and a printer are going to be my hobby for the next 3 years.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Killing stuff that wasn't in LOS was one of the few negatives of 5th. It was mitigated by relatively low direct fire output, but it still wasnt great. 

[Marshal Rohr]

14 minutes ago, Djangomatic82 said:

I liked most of the new rules at first, but as more are leaked, it looks like there is a bleed through of some of the worst 10th ed. rules and design philosophy from 40k into this new edition. The LoS and taking wounds from models out of LoS are a good example.

I think Liber Panoptica and a printer are going to be my hobby for the next 3 years.

Fear not, you can only shoot with your models that have LOS to the unit. Unless you’re playing on an old school WFB table terrain will stop squads from shooting at full numbers

most of the time. 

[MARK0SIAN]

6 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Fear not, you can only shoot with your models that have LOS to the unit. Unless you’re playing on an old school WFB table terrain will stop squads from shooting at full numbers

most of the time. 

I think you’re overestimating the level of protection this may provide. Most of my games are on fairly terrain dense tables and even with that there are lots more occasions when my whole squad can only see one or two members of an opposing squad compared to times when not all of my squad can see the target. And even when the whole squad can’t see the target it’s usually only one or two models that have to miss out on shooting. 
 

I agree with Djangomatic82 that’s lots of the design philosophy of 40k seems to be creeping into this game. It’s kind of feels like they didn’t learn anything from some of the mistakes when 40k transitioned to 8th edition, especially with regards to line of sight.

[Marshal Rohr]

6 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I think you’re overestimating the level of protection this may provide. Most of my games are on fairly terrain dense tables and even with that there are lots more occasions when my whole squad can only see one or two members of an opposing squad compared to times when not all of my squad can see the target. And even when the whole squad can’t see the target it’s usually only one or two models that have to miss out on shooting. 
 

I agree with Djangomatic82 that’s lots of the design philosophy of 40k seems to be creeping into this game. It’s kind of feels like they didn’t learn anything from some of the mistakes when 40k transitioned to 8th edition, especially with regards to line of sight.

You’re tracking you can’t see farther than 3 inches into that isn’t barbed wire or rubble on a road right? Shooting through a ruined Ryza thing? No can do. Plasma pipes? Sorry Chief. New Volkus metal wall things? Don’t even dream of it. 

[Brofist]

Ignoring weapon and unit balance, so far the things I'm most tepid about from the core rules:

• Killing models out of LOS
• Just 3 cookie cutter missions
• 4 turn games
• No more simultaneous attacks in combat
• Extreme overwriting

Considering how pessimistic I was going into this, I was expecting more. I'm sure I'll melt down once the unit balance really hits (hellllo bad dreadnoughts and plasma)

[Dudley Nightshade]

In defence of ditching true line of sight, the game board and models are abstractions. The models' poses and positions are a snapshot, a static instant in time, whereas a battlefield is dynamic. Weapon ranges and even distances are abstractions too.

 

When a smallish thing blocks line of sight, I interpret that to mean the target is moving around so much that the shooter cannot get a quality shot. Maybe the shooter even takes a few shots to force the target into cover, but they both know those shots are not going to be effective beyond that.

 

Similarly, the shooter might be able to hit members of the target squad that the model cannot see because the one visible target model represents the squad member who pulled the short straw and has to poke his head around the wall to fire a covering shot or survey the scene. When he dies, the next guy has to step in and do that job. Someone needs to keep an eye on where the enemy is positioned.

 

I find having cover and shooting rules that go beyond aiming a laser pointer to be much more satisfying.

[Brofist]

I'll be ok with the new abstracted LOS rules if you can't kill what you can't normally see. Honestly a pretty easy house/event rule

[soviet1337]

I guess I have a three year extension on finishing my sons of horus now. Maybe plastic destoyers will come out by then! 

[MARK0SIAN]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

You’re tracking you can’t see farther than 3 inches into that isn’t barbed wire or rubble on a road right? Shooting through a ruined Ryza thing? No can do. Plasma pipes? Sorry Chief. New Volkus metal wall things? Don’t even dream of it. 

Yeah, I am because in my experience I’m not generally drawing line of sight through objects. It’s very rare that a unit would be more than three inches into something that would previously have granted them cover. 
 

More often it’s going to be drawing line of sight on a model that’s slightly to the side of the cover meaning I can wipe out the whole squad. 
 

This new system is like so much of what we’ve seen of 3.0. It changes things, but for what benefit exactly? I honestly can’t see how being able to kill models you can’t see makes the game better. 

[Haranin]

Do we have base sizes and counts for the box yet?

 

[01RTB01]

11 minutes ago, Haranin said:

Do we have base sizes and counts for the box yet?

 

Counts?

 

Saturnine terms are 50mm

Dread 100mm

Marines 32mm

Centurion unsure. 

[BitsHammer]

9 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Yeah list tailoring is totally awesome and somehow not as bad as just making an optimized list!

You say that like people don't tailor even a little normally. If I know I'm playing someone who wants to run tanks all the time I'm going to naturally tailor to deal with that if we arrange a game even if I don't see their list before hand. 

 

Being allowed to do it at the table and talk out what you want to run, say the same guy wants to try out his new all bikes list, means no one feels like they wasted three hours by bringing the wrong list. And you say "optimized" like every list is optimized for every mission, every deployment type and every match up. 

 

Just be an adult, talk to your opponent and stop pretending like we play in a vacuum where nothing is known about the game we're going to play before we play it. Like even your "optimized" list still requires you to tailor a list to a meta, to missions or opponents you plan on playing. Tailoring a list is like tailoring a suit: do it right and it makes the list fit the game you're going to play better. I'm tired of people pretending that tailoring can only make things worse because they assume power gaming is the only way you can tailor a list.

 

If I'm playing someone new I can tailor my list by taking a less optimized build so I can teach my opponent how to play without breaking out the baby seal club.

[Brofist]

6 hours ago, Brofist said:

Ignoring weapon and unit balance, so far the things I'm most tepid about from the core rules:

• Killing models out of LOS
• Just 3 cookie cutter missions
• 4 turn games
• No more simultaneous attacks in combat
• Extreme overwriting

Considering how pessimistic I was going into this, I was expecting more. I'm sure I'll melt down once the unit balance really hits (hellllo bad dreadnoughts and plasma)

 

Adding one more to my list: vehicles not getting cover saves against glances, but getting them for pens

[Djangomatic82]

I was just looking at the MK2 kit and all the new disintegrator guns GW packed into the box and thought GW missed a golden opportunity.

Idk if anyone else finds it a weird unit option. Unless there is a significant change to the existing units in 3rd, it feels like that veteran squad kind of overlaps in a an uncomplimentary way with the Tactical Support Squad. Essentially, they are both just regular Tactical's with better guns, maybe the vets get 2 wounds. Who knows, once all the rules drop, maybe they will have a clear niche.

But as others have said, the disintegrator's themselves aren't clearly a superior upgrade to existing options, and they may in fact turn out to be a trap. with what we have now, a veteran unit rocking a gun that has a decent chance of hurting you enough to make them, not unusable, but maybe less able to pull their weight compared to a regular tactical support squad is kinda disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, the sculpts of both the MK 2 and disintegrator's are my favorite part of the new box. They are what Space Marines have always looked like in my head.

 

But imagine this, if GW had, instead of announcing what they did, told us that as part of the new edition, they had also decided to fix one of the more disappointing units in 2e.

The Destroyer squads.

Here it is, the new, plastic, Legion Mortalis Destroyer Squad in MK2 armour.

"WoW, so cool, I want."

and you know what, each Destroyer can equip a Disintegrator Rifle, not just 1 out of every 5.

"Please Mr.GW, no more, I am but a mere man and can take no more." 

And you know what, how about this, a MK2 Legion Assault Destroyer. This one is rocking a cool :cuss: chain axe, but no worries, each one of these bad MOFOS can take a Disintegrator Rifle as well. (These will be available a bit later, just so you have time to recover financially.)

"NOOOOO Mr. GW! not jumpy disintegrator astartes too, its too much, how will I tell my wife? how will i tell my kid there's no xmas this year because daddy already got his toys in the summer? NOOOOOOOOO!" 

TLDR: GW should rebrand the vet disintegrator vets as a new Destroyer kit.

 

[Gorgoff]

8 hours ago, Brofist said:

Ignoring weapon and unit balance, so far the things I'm

• Extreme overwriting

 

Funny enough the only thing they have not overwritten the line of sight thing instantly caused a major uproar in the community. 

 

I re-read it and saw that it just says draw a line from the model to the target which badically is what we did the last 15 years so true line of sight is still a thing. They just didn't explain it this time for some reason. 

Until they maybe FAQ it thst they really mean stupid "look from above draw a line" thing I will take it literally. 

 

8 hours ago, Dudley Nightshade said:

In defence of ditching true line of sight, the game board and models are abstractions. The models' poses and positions are a snapshot, a static instant in time, whereas a battlefield is dynamic. Weapon ranges and even distances are abstractions too.

 

When a smallish thing blocks

[Snip]

 

A Saturnine Dreadnought getting completely obscured by a small Rhino would be ridiculous and there is no way anyone can justify that for me. 

Or units being unable to look over an Aegis defensive line. 

 

8 hours ago, Brofist said:

Ignoring weapon and unit balance, so far the things I'm most tepid about from the core rules:

• Killing models out of LOS
• Just 3 cookie cutter missions
• 4 turn games
• No more simultaneous attacks in combat
• Extreme overwriting

Considering how pessimistic I was going into this, I was expecting more. I'm sure I'll melt down once the unit balance really hits (hellllo bad dreadnoughts and plasma)

I agree on the small number of missions. They make games for 30 years and should be able to put easily a dozen or so missions in different categories in there which they did in the past. 

They didn't do it to be able to make cheap cash grab books with more missions. 

The thing which annoys me most is although the missions are alright they allow the players to deploy the objectives inside their deployment zones or adjacent to them which is not good for the game. 

 

I haven't read how close combat works now. So if two units with initiative 4 beat each other one can still kill the other before those strike?

 

4 turn games is a thing for two years now though and I like it.

1. Games are usually over by turn 3-4 anyway and

2. It forces the players to act. Standing in their deployment zone shooting doesn't work. It makes games better in my humble opinion.

 

7 hours ago, MARK0SIAN said:

? I honestly can’t see how being able to kill models you can’t see makes the game better. 

In this instance I agree with you.

It just makes it a tiny bit easier but all of us who have played older versions of the game know that this wasn't good. It just feels strange and counterintuitive. 

No dealbreaker though. 

 

[TheArtilleryman]

The “kill whole unit if you can see one guy peeking round the corner” mechanic is something I always hated. Utterly dumb rule