Gorgoff Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 Apart from dense jungle can anyone give me an example for terrain which could be considered heavy? Nithing comes to my mind apart from just devlaring something as that which doesn't look the part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogger351 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 15 minutes ago, Gorgoff said: Apart from dense jungle can anyone give me an example for terrain which could be considered heavy? Nithing comes to my mind apart from just devlaring something as that which doesn't look the part. Typically it's been fortified areas historically as well, although I think some people simply lumped those under ruins and considered those medium Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephaston Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 14 hours ago, Gorgoff said: https://imgur.com/a/dcKhPGI The last bit the leaker shows is the line of sight rules and those for terrain and shooting and jerzuz do they suck. True line of sight is gone. A small Rhino completely blocks line of sight to the Saturnine Dreadnought behind it. A little piece of terrain locks everything as well. Granted we can always declare that as light terrain in which case it doesn't block anything but that vehicles block line of sight no matter what is beyond stupid. That we can kill models now outside line of sight is also beyond terrible. "Well well well,I can see one dude of your unit. I can kill now the whole squad." Am I missing an earlier rule about using tape or models having endless vertical obstruction? Because to me it doesn't read as tiny vehicles blocking line of sight regardless of where the line is drawn, only if the Line were to be drawn through it. So a infantry model can target a saturnine dread as a line of sight can be drawn going above the rhino. Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Ex_Machina Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 57 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said: The “kill whole unit if you can see one guy peeking round the corner” mechanic is something I always hated. Utterly dumb rule It worked in the Aliens movie when the bugs rounded a corner while running like hell to catch up with their prey. Only problem was that there waited a sentry gun for them. In all other cases where non-Fearless units are involved it makes no sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbling Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, Mogger351 said: Typically it's been fortified areas historically as well, although I think some people simply lumped those under ruins and considered those medium Urban areas, I'd suggest. Special forces units train in mock villages and fake airports. The bigger issue is visibility rather than - necessarily - the destructibility of cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardus Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said: It worked in the Aliens movie when the bugs rounded a corner while running like hell to catch up with their prey. Only problem was that there waited a sentry gun for them. In all other cases where non-Fearless units are involved it makes no sense. Just blame the warp....... Bob dies and his body mysteriously disappears.... Phil goes where's Bob? Goes to see, gets one the head and his body mysteriously disappears..... Vlad goes where are my two squad mates? Goes to see and gets minced by gun fire, his body mysteriously disappears! etc,etc... Nice lore fit to the game mechanics! But joking aside, wiping a hidden model without an in game mechanic such as ignores cover or blast (be that template or keyword) is silly. SalamandersBro, Gorgoff and Hathor42 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 I had great fun playing 4th with its area terrain blocking LOS in the same way. You could get stuff like assault Marines leapfrogging large chunks to charge tanks and the like, or holing a unit up in the rear of a ruin to hide them and get the drop on enemies trying to go around the ruin. Though, that latter part only really worked with how barrage couldn't core an entire building, so we'll see. Brother Sutek and Brofist 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Nightshade Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 (edited) 6 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said: The “kill whole unit if you can see one guy peeking round the corner” mechanic is something I always hated. Utterly dumb rule It doesn't seem like there is any consensus, but it seems reasonable that each half of a game turn might represent 60 seconds or so of "real" time on the battlefield. Then the UGOIGO mechanic further obscures the representation of what is actually "happening" in the field. Two minutes of soldiers moving around, firing pot shots at each other, jockeying for position, trying to get to a vantage point. … *shrug* I've never been in that position, but 10 seconds in hide-and-seek feels like an eternity. Then imagine how much anxiety it would cause to know that if you can't keep eyes on the seeker, they might lob a grenade on your position. editing to add: I know there is not going to be any one rule that makes everyone happy. For me, true line of sight, which was intended to simplify and make the game more immersive, effectively removed an entire class of rules that I basically liked. It also coincided with the rise of Hero-Hammer, which did not sit well with me either. I don't begrudge anyone who feels differently, though. Edited June 29 by Dudley Nightshade LameBeard, Antarius and BitsHammer 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 New Proteus variant or resin kit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 47 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said: New Proteus variant or resin kit? That's just the resin Armoured Proteus I believe, probably an older photo due to the presence of the MkIV SoH in the older upgrades. roryokane and MasterBlaster 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said: New Proteus variant or resin kit? I think that photo is from Retribution or Conquest Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 4 hours ago, Dudley Nightshade said: I know there is not going to be any one rule that makes everyone happy. For me, true line of sight, which was intended to simplify and make the game more immersive, effectively removed an entire class of rules that I basically liked. It also coincided with the rise of Hero-Hammer, which did not sit well with me either. I don't begrudge anyone who feels differently, though. Which rules disappeared and how did it make hero hammer happen though? The Old World has abstract line of sight and is very much Hero Hammer but I am interested in what you mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 The last paragraph of that line of sight rules page reads: "When determining if a Model has Line of Sight to a Unit, it only needs Line of Sight to one Model that is part of that Unit. That does not grant that Model Line of Sight to any other Models that are in that Unit that are otherwise hidden and does not affect how or to which Models wounds or Hits can be assigned." That bolded part, to me, implies that Line of Sight does not also grant Line of Effect, and that unseen models in a visible unit can't be gunned down. roryokane 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 35 minutes ago, Laurence said: The last paragraph of that line of sight rules page reads: "When determining if a Model has Line of Sight to a Unit, it only needs Line of Sight to one Model that is part of that Unit. That does not grant that Model Line of Sight to any other Models that are in that Unit that are otherwise hidden and does not affect how or to which Models wounds or Hits can be assigned." That bolded part, to me, implies that Line of Sight does not also grant Line of Effect, and that unseen models in a visible unit can't be gunned down. The player receiving the shooting chooses the target models and assigns wounds to models, this is covered by the cut out directly below the target models sections. Five guys are in the road, five around the corner, three die to failed saves and get removed from around the corner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Nightshade Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, Gorgoff said: Which rules disappeared and how did it make hero hammer happen though? The Old World has abstract line of sight and is very much Hero Hammer but I am interested in what you mean. Ah sorry. I didn't mean to imply that one caused the other. In doing some research on what order things happened in, it also looks like I am greatly misremembering the timeline. In my mind, the big changes to terrain rules (including the introduction of TLoS) happened around the same time as needing to take a named character to alter the force org chart. However, when I dig into it, it seems like those changes were not even close together in terms of rules editions. Derp. Gorgoff 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6118997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) Dropsite Journal preview. Appears to confirm the three new units are Masters of Descent, Command and Control Squads and Hyperion Missile Tanks. Quote The armouries of the various factions is another rich vein, as will be the case with one upcoming journal taking a deep dive into the history and employment of Saturnine technology by the Legiones Astartes. This will include two Legion-unique variations of Saturnine Terminator Squads and a set of heavy-assault themed missions. Edited June 30 by Lord Marshal SalamandersBro and Urauloth 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Whirlwind Hyperios lives! Mention in the article of 'PDFs for Minor Factions' at launch must be Militia and Demonas (maybe) I guess? Have we had confirmation as to whether Legacies are still a thing as well? The Arcane Journals work well for WFB, so I'm quite keen to have this in hand tbh. roryokane 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxom Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 23 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said: In addition, "two Legion-unique variations of Saturnine Terminator Squads"? Those will be in a future Journal focusing on the lore of Saturnine technologies and heavy assault missions. “Minor factions” are getting day 1 pdfs, and Custodes were footnoted - they’re getting one too. It’s unclear what the other day 1 pdfs are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matcap86 Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Curious what the prices of these will be. At 50ish pages, hope it isn't too high. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 7 minutes ago, Matcap86 said: Curious what the prices of these will be. At 50ish pages, hope it isn't too high. Arcane Journals for WFB are £16.50 from GW. So I'm guessing no more than £20. Matcap86 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalamandersBro Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Question for people who playex 1.0 and 2.0. How different were army special rules and the rites of war compared to each other? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Looking at it, outside of the core I only need four books, realistically. Liber Astartes Liber Hereticus AJ Dark Angels AJ Sons of Horus Everything else is largely optional / interest derived. Isstvan I'll likely pick up at the bare minimum, then anything after that is up in the air. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Disappointing they didn’t lead with Mech or Solar previews today Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylerboodie Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 34 minutes ago, Matcap86 said: Curious what the prices of these will be. At 50ish pages, hope it isn't too high. Necromunda / Legions Imperialis books are c. 128 pages @£31.50, so 24.6p per page The "Campaigns of The Age of Darkness" books were 168, 208, and 240 pages @£37.00, so c. 15p-22p per page The Arcane Journals are 48 pages @£16.50, so 34.4p per page. So assuming this last one is the same pricing for Journals Tactica, it is definitely a very expensive delivery method. Matcap86 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 34 minutes ago, SalamandersBro said: Question for people who playex 1.0 and 2.0. How different were army special rules and the rites of war compared to each other? Massively mate, Legion Special rules where a paragraph or so of different rules with some pros and cons, compared 'to +1 to hit'.. RoWs, while there were differences, aren't as different as Legion Traits were! SalamandersBro and Brofist 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/111/#findComment-6119063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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