Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[firestorm40k]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Fists lost assault cannons for everything except the Castellan and Decurion, but for some [redacted] reason the Blood Angels kept them. Absolute clown show. The Assault Cannons are still for sale right now for Fists. 

So my Cataphractii that have Illiastus Assault Cannons can no longer be used? Thanks Games Workshop..! 

[Mogger351]

5 minutes ago, Pearson73 said:

The lack of customisation on legion units is really daft. Really not looking forward to removing volkites from all my Immortals.

Just don't? They might not be rules wise volkites any more, but the model doesn't necessitate ripping apart as a result of these changes.

[Marshal Loss]

This chap has the traitor book and talks about the NL/AL rules in the video (no pictures, just has the book in front of him), if anybody is interested enough to listen. 

[Vassakov]

So, looking at the leaks - it seems to be the Legion unique units that have moved to having fixed loadouts with their own special weapons rather than full access to the armoury.

 

Which, is a bit sucky if you built all your special units with a range a wargear (or, as I have seen, all with Thunder Hammers or something).

 

I do though have to ask - why did you equip your guys all with the best possible weapon? Was it for the fluff and the lore and the joy of conversion, or was it because that loadout was objectively the best?

 

There is the view that if you want your Legion specific units to have a unique niche, they need to have their own wargear and role, and not simply be "Terminators but better" or "Assault Marines but miles better" with both their own weapons and everything else as an optional extra, so that you can essentially have the best of both worlds.

 

I'm genuinely not being difficult, for my mind if you're using a Legion unit you should want to use the weapons and wargear they have, as it's usually part of their charm to me. A lot of the time the "Wargear options have been taken away" is "I can't run a unit that's as objectively good as it was" - but that's going to affect everyone.

 

The (apparent) removal of Destroyers is just daft though. They're clearly getting a new kit soon, so just put them in the core book.  

[Nephaston]

15 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

This chap has the traitor book and talks about the NL/AL rules in the video (no pictures, just has the book in front of him), if anybody is interested enough to listen. 

Bro is gonna get himself blacklisted, ignoring an embargo like that. Edit: he commented that he didn't even think about any potential embargo, he's definitely gonna get hit by the assassinorium

Edited July 10 by Nephaston

[Joe]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of creators breaching the embargo over the next few days. There'll be some that have no dog in the race when it comes to the rules and will largely stick to their hobby / painting content post-embargo being lifted, however there's definitely a few out that that exclusively focus on the rules-side that will likely want to get ahead of the creators that may lean a bit too hard into positivity.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

20 minutes ago, Vassakov said:

I do though have to ask - why did you equip your guys all with the best possible weapon?

I don't think it's fair to just potray it as that. If I tweak it to :

 

"why did you equip your guys all with the best  possible weapons?

 

well, because ... we could? Because someone thought it is thematic for often a single elite unit to be equipped in *some* way, maybe all hammer, maybe some cannon, maybe combis etc, often paying quite a lot for it in both $ and pts... And for each power gamer, there will be many,many folks who just equipped units in some fashion because they just thought it's neat

 

If you want to punish power gamers and certain loadouts, you can just increase the price for given wargear or unit

Edited July 10 by Lautrec the Embraced

[Brofist]

Yeah and common, Immortals with volkites are thematic and fluffy as all hell. I don't believe it was even a particularly good option

[Doobles57]

Man the guy who leaked the Loyalist book really hates Pardo doesn't he? I'm guessing there's some drama somewhere that has completely passed me by.

 

I'm fine with some of these changes, but some do feel needless. Melee vets being tied to jump packs feels like it's because jump packs are no longer equipment. I'm assuming the same will be the case with bikes/jetbikes. Maybe they come back in the pdfs, but it's killed off a couple of ideas I'd had for now.

 

Legion specific units with no options is a bad choice though. Luckily I haven't started painting my Varagyr yet, but I'll have to pop the 2 thunder hammers off the guys who had them. I get restricting stuff for balance purposes, but having no variation in a unit like that just feels dull.

 

On a positive note, I'm not seeing Artificer armour (unless I'm not looking hard enough) on sergeants. Good. End the bullet magnets please.

[Irate Khornate]

2 hours ago, Lautrec the Embraced said:

I think worst case chain blades becomes chain swords, or the rotor-cannon squad is demoted to just a tactical support squad. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about terror marines, I think I'd worry about Raptors - they have a rather fixed loadout on their official models, just one glaive, no claws etc

 

... are there even any legion-specific warlord traits in the leaks? I can't seem to find any, and characters don't mention it either...? Have i missed somethin and we're done with warlords or am I blind?

Warlord traits are gone

[Iron Father Ferrum]

*Looks at current WIP Veteran Tacticals & Immortals on the painting table*

 

Well.  .

[Nephaston]

We got another imgur gallery, though this one contains one slur; the R-word.

Spoiler

 

 

7 hours ago, Doobles57 said:

Man the guy who leaked the Loyalist book really hates Pardo doesn't he? I'm guessing there's some drama somewhere that has completely passed me by.

from cursory glances it might be pardo having a discord server and enacting an anti-leak policy,

Edited July 10 by Brother Tyler
Link removed due to profanity

[Corswain]

I find the reduction in wargear options very strange. Wargear that doesn't come in the model kit only encourages you to buy other kits, right?

 

 

[redmapa]

The loss of options in certain units and the outright removal of units is really ugly but at a first glance the game still has plenty of space to personalize your army and way more options than 40k so its still a winner to me, the VIIth legion is still looking good since it wasnt like their units had options to begin with so not much changed for Templars and Wardens and their rules are still solid!.

 

I gotta see the rules for Veteran Tacticals, Recon and Seekers.

[Joe]

7 hours ago, Nephaston said:

We got another imgur gallery, though this one contains one slur; the R-word.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

from cursory glances it might be pardo having a discord server and enacting an anti-leak policy,

 

I can kind of expand on this one.

 

There's two chaps at play here; one that posted the leaked documents on /r/warhammer30k and was banned due to the sub-reddits policies, and another chap in the HH Discord last night discussing content from the book. The latter quieted up when Pardo re-joined the server, and a few other people started spinning that "Games Workshop gives bounties to influencers for reporting other influences or potential leakers." I'm doubtful that there's any truth to that.

 

Personally, having been in said Discord for years at this stage, the last time Pardo was in there was at the start of second edition to ~checks hand~ advertise his battle reports. I don't believe there's any big conspiracy at play here.

 

 

Edited July 10 by Brother Tyler
Link removed due to profanity

[Vassakov]

25 minutes ago, Lautrec the Embraced said:

I don't think it's fair to just potray it as that. If I tweak it to :

 

"why did you equip your guys all with the best  possible weapons?

 

well, because ... we could? Because someone thought it is thematic for often a single elite unit to be equipped in *some* way, maybe all hammer, maybe some cannon, maybe combis etc, often paying quite a lot for it in both $ and pts... And for each power gamer, there will be many,many folks who just equipped units in some fashion because they just thought it's neat

 

If you want to punish power gamers and certain loadouts, you can just increase the price for given wargear or unit

 

Because a lot of the comments I'm seeing are "I built the unit to take advantage of the best possible wargear and now they suck." Admittedly not as much here, but it's definitely telling that as much of the complaints seem to be that there's a perception that the unit is worse because the weapons are worse. And again, I go back to (in my opinion) the elite units should be using their specialist wargear and not the generic stuff.

 

I also wonder if I've just got a fundamentally different perspective on kitbashing from others - I often don't necessarily change the wargear on units, just use different components/heads/etc and make judicious use of "Counts As" - but then, I'm using Word Bearers who do double duty as HH and 40k units, so I've built with that in mind. That said, at different points my Praetor has been equipped with a Tainted Maul, Power Maul, Paragon 'Blade' and Thunder Hammer without changing the model at all... and no one has ever had an issue. And that's not to mention the fact he's been a Dark Apostle and Chaos Lord in 40k, and my Apothecary has rocked up as Bile. 

[Astartes Consul]

48 minutes ago, Vassakov said:

I do though have to ask - why did you equip your guys all with the best possible weapon? Was it for the fluff and the lore and the joy of conversion, or was it because that loadout was objectively the best?

 

People are always going to have mixed motives, I guess. But part of the issue with these changes is that it isn't just the OP loadouts that have been removed, but all of them.

 

As an Ultramarine player, I am fine with no longer being able to take a ten-man, thunder hammer wielding Suzerain squad. It was OP and arguably unthematic (although I ever ran one so maybe I'd think different if I had)

 

But things like Varagyr losing all their options? Or Immortals losing the Volkites? That's both unthematic and affects their potential in-game use. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

from cursory glances it might be pardo having a discord server and enacting an anti-leak policy,

A lot of people seem to have hugely inflated beef with SN Battle Reports for, as far as I can tell, generally being positive about GW and having *only* fully jumped onto the Heresy train with 2.0. This fella in particular seems to think that SN should have broken their NDA with GW - if they have one IDK - to leak the rules themselves. Odd.

[phandaal]

7 hours ago, Nephaston said:

We got another imgur gallery, though this one contains one slur; the R-word.

  Hide contents

 

 

from cursory glances it might be pardo having a discord server and enacting an anti-leak policy,

 

"Maybe I was too harsh on Pardo actually." 

Edited July 10 by Brother Tyler
Link removed due to profanity

[Marshal Rohr]

I don’t know what plasma did to the designers but I can only assume a plasma gun dated one of their mothers for a short time. 

[Trokair]

Amongst all the Marine leaks have there been any Mechanicum or Solar Aux leaks?

[jaxom]

“I’m not a big fan of 3rd edition, but I’m willing to play it with you if I can use the army I built in 1st/2nd edition. I’ve pointed it out using 3rd edition weapon costs for units with weapons they can no longer take and it doesn’t fit the new detachment style exactly. Here’s what it looks like, do you still want to play?” 
- generic starter you can use for HH pick up games in the future

[TheVoidDragon]

 

Is there a specific list somewhere of what's gone? I don't really follow the rules side of the game too much, but removing so many options like this seems terrible.

 

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

 

Bro is gonna get himself blacklisted, ignoring an embargo like that. 

 

He's claiming that he hasn't broken any rules, because he doesn't know of any saying he can't show it before the release date....

 

Obviously i'm not a retailer myself so don't know specifics, but I'd expect some of the terms of getting warhammer stock before release would include not making it available (whether that's showing or selling) before the release date.

Edited July 10 by TheVoidDragon

[Brofist]

Apparently the Pardo thing is about him reporting the leaker while he was posting on discord

[Robbienw]

I feel like Dr Manhattan reading this thread.

[Nephaston]

1 minute ago, TheVoidDragon said:

Is there a specific list somewhere of what's gone? I don't really follow the rules side of the game too much, but removing so many options like this seems terrible.

not a formatted list, but from quick recollection;

• Primus Medicae
• Forge Lords
• Default Destroyers
• Weapon Options for legion specific resin kits beyond the ones that come by default
• except gorgon terminators, which don't even have combi bolters anywhere on the page
• also except Lerneans which apparently have gained options
• graviton shredders
• bikers lost access to twinned guns that  are not bolters or plasma, but gained more pistol options
• praetors can't have bikes anymore, but can get a cyber familiar by default
• presumably the same with the centurion
• Inductii are gone but will be in a PDF later down the line
• Scouts, unless it's baked into one of the other units of similar stealthy proclivity

 

17 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

He's claiming that he hasn't broken any rules, because he doesn't know of any saying he can't show it before the release date....

 

Obviously i'm not a retailer myself so don't know specifics, but I'd expect some of the terms of getting warhammer stock especially for pre-order would include not making it available before the release date.

Right, if he's a retailer he should be aware of such rules, unless they have different sets of rules for retailers that don't specifically disallow reviews? weird either way.