Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Brofist]

4 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Wait wait. The scars prime advantage, the thing all prime slots will gain....is the sagyar mazan. So one of the defining aspects of the white scars lists in heresy 3.0 will be everyone's on a redemptive death crusade. And then the primarchs sire of the legion allows for....more land raiders? You just get an armoured column with jaghatai now lol. So weird.

 

It sucks so hard man, its all really hard to take in. Me and the other 15 white scar players are reeling 

[Brother Tyler]

=][=

 

The links to the leaked images into which someone had edited the profanity and abusive language have been removed.

 

The links to the leaked images that weren't edited in such a way remain.

 

Any subsequent posting of content or links to content that includes profanity / abusive language will be removed and the posting members subject to disciplinary action.

 

=][=

[No Foes Remain]

This is complete madness, I wasn't going to buy everything on day 1 as I was skeptical on the rules and wanted to wait and see how they pan out (and because of RL I don't have the money either). A friend and I were going to split two of the boxes, him taking most of the Saturnine stuff with me having most of the rest, as well as me buying all the books bar the Knights and Titans ones.

 

But now? I don't think I'm going to buy into 3.0 at all, not unless they add the options back in either via FAQ or legacies (the latter feeling like a bit of a cop-out to be honest). I'm still annoyed about my 2k SoH no longer being legal (even more now the Delegatus is bloody gone) and this has just killed any enthusiasm I had for it. 

 

Anyone else looking to stick in 2.0, download all the FAQs and unit entries from warhammer community I already have done so.

[Brofist]

I haven't had that conversation yet, but its probably in the cards. In my local (about 30 people) the reception has been overwhelmingly negative. We'll have to decide what to do- play an edition we really don't want and support the company we don't like or stick with a dying older edition that never got finished.

[Urauloth]

44 minutes ago, jaxom said:

If they are in the day 1 launch Legacy pdf there wouldn’t be a gap?

That's still a gap in full rules coverage though, right? Legacy pdfs are liminal zones with no balance passes or FAQs and generally aren't allowed at a lot of events. Is it different in this case?

[Sigismund's Ghost]

What GW is calling refreshing the rules is essentially invalidating all army lists. Many fled the hot mess that is 40k for the stability and hobby opportunity Heresy provided. This is a hard pass for me, I’ll stick with 2.0 for the foreseeable future. 

[Waaagh?]

Oh no, the sky is falling.........just like every edition of every game. 

 

I'm sure in 3 years time there will be folks saying the same things and "sticking with 3rd ed" same as when 2nd came out.

Edited July 10 by Waaagh?

[Dhar'Neth]

I'm quite shocked about all the negativity based on leaks to be honest.

Yes it's a bummer that most units lost options. I feel sorry for all the Space Wolves in particular.

Yes it's sad that most fluffy rules are gone. As a Word Bearers player, looking at Lorgar rules I feel super sad. He lost almost all his rules and now his Primarch rule is basically "can join Gal Vorbak". And hits most special characters on 5+ with his Ws6 (sigh). Yet still costs an arm and leg in points.

BUT

Whenever I read that someone's army is invalidate, I'm baffled. I have three Marine armies with core of 40+ tacticals, support squads, rappiers, bikes, jump packs, handful of different terminators, etc. and I can't imagine one army being invalidated. Most of my armies aren't great on battlefield - but I don't play competitive tournament games, I want my army to look like an army (not like a snapshot of Special characters/Primarchs personal guard). People that play will always flock to the "best-rules-legion-of-edition".

I always wished for that 4th and 5th HQ slot and it appears that everyone was playing min-max armies with token Delegatus, Contemptors, ThunderHammerWs5 units, etc. etc. Sure, if your army was a power gaming min-max (no offense, I also love to powergame sometimes and one of my armies was just that) then edition change will always invalidate it. If unit A in my army is bad this edition I will shelf it and use something else. Or play it and don't care I lose. It's fluffy for my Word Bearers to die in droves!

P.s.

I truly hope that we will see a lot of missing profiles in the legacies PDF including missing profiles and options. I'm very sorry for all of you who spent hundreds of hours converting and painting miniatures (just like me). But some illegal equipment on model won't stop me from playing that model. You see that thunder hammer? Its a count as Terranic Greatsword this edition.

[Robbienw]

This happens every time there is a new edition.  GW line continues to go up.

[Sigismund's Ghost]

1 hour ago, Dhar'Neth said:

I'm quite shocked about all the negativity based on leaks to be honest.

Yes it's a bummer that most units lost options. I feel sorry for all the Space Wolves in particular.

Yes it's sad that most fluffy rules are gone. As a Word Bearers player, looking at Lorgar rules I feel super sad. He lost almost all his rules and now his Primarch rule is basically "can join Gal Vorbak". And hits most special characters on 5+ with his Ws6 (sigh). Yet still costs an arm and leg in points.

BUT

Whenever I read that someone's army is invalidate, I'm baffled. I have three Marine armies with core of 40+ tacticals, support squads, rappiers, bikes, jump packs, handful of different terminators, etc. and I can't imagine one army being invalidated. Most of my armies aren't great on battlefield - but I don't play competitive tournament games, I want my army to look like an army (not like a snapshot of Special characters/Primarchs personal guard). People that play will always flock to the "best-rules-legion-of-edition".

I always wished for that 4th and 5th HQ slot and it appears that everyone was playing min-max armies with token Delegatus, Contemptors, ThunderHammerWs5 units, etc. etc. Sure, if your army was a power gaming min-max (no offense, I also love to powergame sometimes and one of my armies was just that) then edition change will always invalidate it. If unit A in my army is bad this edition I will shelf it and use something else. Or play it and don't care I lose. It's fluffy for my Word Bearers to die in droves!

P.s.

I truly hope that we will see a lot of missing profiles in the legacies PDF including missing profiles and options. I'm very sorry for all of you who spent hundreds of hours converting and painting miniatures (just like me). But some illegal equipment on model won't stop me from playing that model. You see that thunder hammer? Its a count as Terranic Greatsword this edition.

Invalidated. Day of Revelation and All Grav armies no longer exist 

 

 

Edited July 10 by Sigismund's Ghost
Clarification

[Shovellovin]

24 minutes ago, Sigismund's Ghost said:

What GW is calling refreshing the rules is essentially invalidating all army lists. Many fled the hot mess that is 40k for the stability and hobby opportunity Heresy provided. This is a hard pass for me, I’ll stick with 2.0 for the foreseeable future. 

This is my plan as well. I love 40K models and lore but quit playing/buying/painting 40K because I am tired of the edition churn. My solution was to play Horus Heresy because it scratched my Warhammer itch. I don't want to purchase new books every 3 years. I hate being drip fed rules/content. 

 

[Jings]

9 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

This happens every time there is a new edition.  GW line continues to go up.

 

I know it isn't just you, but I don't think this dismiss attitude is constructive to the discussion. Yes, there's always complaining on a new edition, but this isn't complaining a gun getting a rules tweak or a stat getting nerfed. The stripping of options and legion rules (read: flavour) that we've seem so far is devastating considering a large contingent of those of us who returned to Heresy did so because they were removed from 40K. 

 

It really is a damn shame honestly because the core rules put forward for 3rd look solid. I'm hoping that some of the removed options return in the Legacies PDF, but I know in my heart of hearts I'm coping. With any luck, Panoptica will come along and add some seasoning to the Legio rules and return the options (and maybe get a Battlescribe file), but if not I'll probably stick with 2.0 with fan rules for the new units and options. 

[Fire Golem]

43 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

That's still a gap in full rules coverage though, right? Legacy pdfs are liminal zones with no balance passes or FAQs and generally aren't allowed at a lot of events. Is it different in this case?

Legacy in 30k is a bit different to 40k legends stuff. For a start nothing in the last edition got an FAQ so there was no gap there, and they were basically universally accepted by the community. I don’t think I ever saw an event that didn’t allow them. Even GW have specifically said that legacy units will be allowed in their events in 3.0. Functionally there isn’t really any difference between legacy and core units as far as I’m concerned/aware. 
 

Someone in the heresy hammer WhatsApp has been compiling everything (with the profanity edited out where it was there too): https://mega.nz/folder/o1lmkIRC#IiK-WhZtLghM25krZran9A https://mega.nz/folder/o1lmkIRC#IiK-WhZtLghM25krZran9A

[jaxom]

I’m very curious; does anyone know if a major HH event organizer has issued an opinion? If HH at Adepticon stays 2.0 or adopts a hybrid for list building that could have a major impact among the wider HH community.

[Joe]

I've discussed it with a few friends from across the globe (including an EO) and the general consensus is this may wind up fragmenting the community outright. You'll have a segment that decides to go to 3E, a segment that decides to stay with 2E, a segment that decides to stay with 2E but start rolling in homebrew rules more (see; Panoptica), etc.

 

This is a fairly different situation from previous edition shifts.

[Brother Tyler]

What I have been thinking about doing is creating an "Oldhammer Horus Heresy" club in the same way that we have the Oldhammer 40K club. I see these clubs as a way to support players who want to stick with/discuss previous editions of games, especially when those editions become invalidated by newer ones. And we may similarly create clubs for other games in which there are significant edition changes and segments of the community want to stick with older editions. There are definitely some kinks to be worked out as the Clubs feature doesn't have the visiblity that the Forums have, but this is an issue the staff is discussing. In all likelihood, there will be links directly to the clubs from the forums, similar to the ones we currently have for blogs and galleries.

[Dhar'Neth]

41 minutes ago, Sigismund's Ghost said:

Invalidated. day of Revelation and all grav armies no longer exist 

 

 

The first one seems saveable with some centurions. About the other one - There might be rules for bikes in PDF

Edited July 10 by Dhar'Neth

[Evil Eye]

Well, I'm glad I didn't take the plunge on HH now. Sweet Emperor, what a mess. The worst part being either sales will tank and GW will go "Gee, seems people don't like HH after all!" and can the whole thing, or sales will continue and GW will assume people want more of nu40K's dreck to turn the rest of their games into slop.

[StrangerOrders]

Nearly all the Traitor Legions are leaked at this point.

 

And its safe to say nearly all the panic and issues were Loyalist specific.

 

Traitors kept most of their wargear options, gained in places, got more rules, more balanced prices and more fluff. 

 

TSons have 4 pages for each cult plus a Khenetai Jedi Page. 

 

WE have better Caedere weapons and two rites of war (base and heretic).

 

Those with limited wargear or lost something gained something else, including a large uptick in combi-weapons.

 

Its not even op or unbalanced internally to my eye, just mass improvements.

 

I mostly play Traitor so I am laughing, but this is weird.

 

Honestly, I cannot speak to what management was thinking greenlighting the Loyalist book.

Edited July 10 by StrangerOrders

[Mogger351]

As Valrak keeps pointing out, if the legends pdf is tournament and event legal, why aren't they in the book though? It's a really weird division.

[Dhar'Neth]

4 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

As Valrak keeps pointing out, if the legends pdf is tournament and event legal, why aren't they in the book though? It's a really weird division.

The book would be to thick and expensive to produce.

[Robbienw]

46 minutes ago, Jings said:

 

I know it isn't just you, but I don't think this dismiss attitude is constructive to the discussion. 

It’s not being dismissive, it’s just a pattern I have observed during 30+ years in the hobby that occurs repeatedly.

 

 

[LameBeard]

32 minutes ago, Brother Tyler said:

What I have been thinking about doing is creating an "Oldhammer Horus Heresy" club in the same way that we have the Oldhammer 40K club. I see these clubs as a way to support players who want to stick with/discuss previous editions of games, especially when those editions become invalidated by newer ones. And we may similarly create clubs for other games in which there are significant edition changes and segments of the community want to stick with older editions. There are definitely some kinks to be worked out as the Clubs feature doesn't have the visiblity that the Forums have, but this is an issue the staff is discussing. In all likelihood, there will be links directly to the clubs from the forums, similar to the ones we currently have for blogs and galleries.

I think the stop-gap here is we should restart all the Tactica threads and explicitly name the new ones 3.0 tactica and the old ones 2.0 tactica.

[DemonGSides]

12 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

As Valrak keeps pointing out, if the legends pdf is tournament and event legal, why aren't they in the book though? It's a really weird division.

 

The silliest complaint.  Who cares WHERE a rule is located when they can all be accessed easily digitally.

Oh wait.

Edited July 10 by DemonGSides

[Ripper.McGuirl]

10 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

As Valrak keeps pointing out, if the legends pdf is tournament and event legal, why aren't they in the book though? It's a really weird division.

Because their line of thinking is that too many options in the book confuses people if they can’t buy the model. I think most people are smart enough to be able to deal with it, but they don’t seem to want to do that with the core books.