Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Captain Idaho]

No, the bad press came from us customers reading their leaks, the entire rule set, then making our minds up.

 

Let's not pretend it was all caused by leakers of bad faith.

 

The rules aren't great. Even with Legacies, army building is pretty poor and a confusing mess. The army specific rules are anemic and things like Primarchs are very much much more bare of character.

 

We made our minds up on that. And it isn't our fault I'm afraid. Our expectations arent even unrealistic since we have a previous edition that covered the rules we wanted much cleaner.

[Mana]

Disclaimer: All of this is my personal opinion:

The post in warcom is 100% damage control and wasn't planned, it still amazes me people from the community can't see it for what it is. They specifically give examples of the things everyone was worried about in the leaks. GW has a history of addressing things like this when possible (if it fits in their corpo views/needs), and as seeing this is directly affecting the launch of THE product launch of 2025, they are worried.

 

The leaks were at the end of last week, we got the article today probably because it was the fastest they could do it (I imagine it had to be approved up the chain.).

 

They already had the legacies pdf ready for the launch, but with the leaks and the damage control, I imagine they have to add more stuff.

 

Yeah we are getting new tartaros kits, but the excuses they give in the article makes no sense:

 

"The army lists in the Liber books are a reflection of the current range of miniatures. "

Like the current tartaros kit with powerfists?

 

"They are written to reflect the contents of boxed units, so new players can build armies without feeling the need to buy multiple kits just to make one unit. "

I was under the impression HH was part of the specialist studio and aimed at "veterans"of the hobby, which also is part of the excuse they give for 3.0 "complex" rules. This also doesn't make sense to me, new players would be veteran hobbyists,  this is clearly an excuse for a mandate from management.

Also where are my despoilers kit GW? I have to buy 2 boxes to make those. Or my heavy support squad? also 2 boxes, or my support squad? 2 boxes.

 

"The boxes themselves are designed to represent the most typical wargear loadouts those units would have."

Like it was said before, tartaros the most advanced terminator suit at the time of the heresy in the lore can't get powerfists?

 

"It also means that these rulebooks can still be compact enough to transport to your games."

Lmao, won't even bother commenting on this. Thanks GW.

 

Even with the legacy pdfs many units have lost options, and they haven't said specific units in the libers will get them back, just that character units will:

"In addition to the units, the PDF will include options to equip many characters with more exotic wargear including bikes, jump packs and Terminator armour."

So Varagyr are still limited to a combi-bolter and frost axe, night lords raptor squads can't take meltaguns or flamers or the huntmaster dual lightning claws, Terror squads can't have a weapon like a rotor cannon and a melee weapon at the same time, etc. I really hope we get those options back in a day 1 FAQ, but honestly? I doubt we will.

Edited Wednesday at 08:39 PM by Mana
grammar

[Norman Paperman]

Absolutely top tier nerd drama. I hope GW never loses sight of the fact that a community as passionate as this is a vibrant life blood that shows how good of a thing you've got going. 

 

And fair play to GW as well. I've only been in this hobby a touch under two years, but they're far from the anti-player/consumer monsters that they get called so often. 

[MoriyaSchism]

30 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

This.

 

Peoples ridiculous need to know everything weeks ahead of the games release and the community’s knee jerk response to everything the company does. 
 

There is an almost glee and a desire to have the absolute worst reactions to everything they do.

 

If the edition is DOA, which it won’t be, then it the community has itself partly to blame. 
 

 

So what? What are we as consumers supposed to do? I guess my role here is to buy it without knowing and then act surprised once I get my hands on a subpar product. Am I supposed to feel bad for people who work in marketing departments when their influencer-led advertisement campaign gets spoiled? 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:42 PM by MoriyaSchism

[01RTB01]

1 minute ago, Norman Paperman said:

Absolutely top tier nerd drama. I hope GW never loses sight of the fact that a community as passionate as this is a vibrant life blood that shows how good of a thing you've got going. 

 

And fair play to GW as well. I've only been in this hobby a touch under two years, but they're far from the anti-player/consumer monsters that they get called so often. 

You've not been here long have you?...

 

As an aside, terminators were originally conceived for space Hulk warfare? If they're only bumbling around with regular power weapons, how are they cutting through hulk bulkheads and such?

[Vogon]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

Minimum of 5, maximum of 12, whole unit comes with volkite charges and power weapon baseline

Sorry,  I've not really been keeping up with this but if Cataphractii terminators now come withe volkites as standard, what makes Alpha Legion Lernean terminators stand out from the crowd? 

 

I'm assuming that "power weapon" can include a power fist or chain fist which the plastic models all come with.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon 

[Fire Golem]

3 minutes ago, Vogon said:

Sorry,  I've not really been keeping up with this but if Cataphractii terminators now come withe volkites as standard, what makes Alpha Legion Lernean terminators stand out from the crowd? 

 

I'm assuming that "power weapon" can include a power fist or chain fist which the plastic models all come with.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon 

Power Weapon is your power axe, sword, maul, spear. Power fist and chainfist are in the Legion Terminator Melee Weapon list that the Cata have access to. 

[Irate Khornate]

I really hope the new Terminators are roughly the same size as the old ones. I get the appeal of hulking huge terminators, but I'd rather not deal with indomitus size terminators 

[Nephaston]

11 minutes ago, Vogon said:

I'm assuming that "power weapon" can include a power fist or chain fist which the plastic models all come with.

"Power Weapon" usually only means swords, axes, mauls, spears(?), while power fists and chain fists are usually kept separate. They are however found on the legion terminator melee weapons list.

 

11 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

As an aside, terminators were originally conceived for space Hulk warfare? If they're only bumbling around with regular power weapons, how are they cutting through hulk bulkheads and such?

As far as I remember Tartaros at least was intended as a full replacement for power armour, so there at least not having the slowest of melee options for broad use does make some sense. Combi-weapon and fists remains iconic however.

Edited Wednesday at 08:56 PM by Nephaston

[Irate Khornate]

13 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

Absolutely top tier nerd drama. I hope GW never loses sight of the fact that a community as passionate as this is a vibrant life blood that shows how good of a thing you've got going. 

 

And fair play to GW as well. I've only been in this hobby a touch under two years, but they're far from the anti-player/consumer monsters that they get called so often. 

Unfortunately....give it time. You'll start to see the cracks appear.

[Fire Golem]

2 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

I really hope the new Terminators are roughly the same size as the old ones. I get the appeal of hulking huge terminators, but I'd rather not deal with indomitus size terminators 

The only real reason to update the kits is to make them bigger. The Indomitus termis are perfect size wise imo. 

[Rusted Boltgun]

37 minutes ago, Vogon said:

Sorry,  I've not really been keeping up with this but if Cataphractii terminators now come withe volkites as standard, what makes Alpha Legion Lernean terminators stand out from the crowd? 

 

I'm assuming that "power weapon" can include a power fist or chain fist which the plastic models all come with.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon 

 

Hang on, my box of Cataphractii came with combi-bolters, no Volkites?

[Wibbling]

38 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

There is an almost glee and a desire to have the absolute worst reactions to everything they do.

 

This is an unfair - and, respectfully, inaccurate - statement. I was all set to get the box (although I thought the Saturnine and gun turret were a bit 'new shiny' rather than awaited models. I read the leaks and re-read them and couldn't get my head around them. It was not grabbing me and saying 'play me!' It said 'Here's the EU directive on carrots' (or worse, the UK tax code - 17,000 pages of utter dogwaffle and another 7000 of explanatory notes).

 

Now, I read a lot, especially technical manuals and legal documents and the wording around some of the text is impenetrable. The intent was precision - they were written to be as narrow as possible because some players abuse 'rules as intended' for advantage -  but the rules were not - in my view - clear.

 

That is not my fault. It is not 'Peoples ridiculous need' (you want an apostrophe in there, by the way). I want to have fun playing a game not read and re-read text deciphering a logic bomb. It isn't a determination to have the worst reaction. I was disappointed that I wasn't excited. That's not my (or anyone else's fault. It's Workshop's for the writing choices and development decisions. There's no desperation - no emotion that you're ascribing. It's indifference and a lost sale (not that Workshop will notice) but it's my only way of saying no, this product isn't good enough for me. 

 

[I've tried hard to not complain about the game or the box as there are, and I sincerely hope there are - a lot of folk loving it and waiting for the release day to devour it all. That's genuinely great. I can only talk about my feelings and rebut the suggestion a bad product is the fault of the customer for not liking it]

[Matcap86]

2 minutes ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

 

Hang on, my box of Cataphractii came with combi-bolters, no Volkites?

 

Wait until friday 

[Nephaston]

3 minutes ago, Rusted Boltgun said:

 

Hang on, my box of Cataphractii came with combi-bolters, no Volkites?

 

New kit.

Edited Wednesday at 09:23 PM by Nephaston

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Nephaston said:

 

New kit.

 

Well, mine have converted from the vehicle sprue. They fit nearly perfect.

[Northern Walker]

45 minutes ago, Norman Paperman said:

Absolutely top tier nerd drama. I hope GW never loses sight of the fact that a community as passionate as this is a vibrant life blood that shows how good of a thing you've got going. 

 

And fair play to GW as well. I've only been in this hobby a touch under two years, but they're far from the anti-player/consumer monsters that they get called so often. 

You sweet summer child, oh for the optimism of hobby youth. I'm afraid I'm hardened by 26 (now I feel old) years of being annoyed by all manner of GW rules decisions.

[Wibbling]

29 minutes ago, Fire Golem said:

The only real reason to update the kits is to make them bigger. The Indomitus termis are perfect size wise imo. 

 

I'd quite like upscaled terminators. They can look a bit small around the new power armour marks. A new kit would have a bit more detail as well and having assault and siege terminators is a nice differentiator. But that's just me. I've a tray full of the old metal ones that still see the field. They look very funny but hide behind cover well!

[Wibbling]

2 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

You sweet summer child, oh for the optimism of hobby youth. I'm afraid I'm hardened by 26 (now I feel old) years of being annoyed by all manner of GW rules decisions.

It was reading the 6th edition of Codex Chaos Daemons and seeing it was a word for word - almost image to image - reprint of 5th that did it for me. 

 

If they didn't care, I wouldn't. 

[Marshal Rohr]

I complained and preordered everything. I don’t think the edition is dead and I’m glad they’re putting stuff in legacies. If they don’t return the options I will just build my army using the points in the wargear list for things I lost. Hate change. Hate losing thing. Love wargear. Love flavor. Simple as. 

[Rusted Boltgun]

16 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

New kit.

I'd forgotten about that image! I have read the whole thread, honest!

[Marshal Loss]

While I don't like e.g. Tartaros losing fists (come on...), I'm largely pleased with the article and announced legacy PDF contents. I'm still baffled why they didn't decide to preemptively publish this article or one like it last week before the reviews and leaks came around. Sure, they aren't obliged to acknowledge people leaking their products before release, but reviews were always going to (and did) highlight the issue on preorder day, their products almost always tend to leak early, and it doesn't take a genius to predict that the reaction to those without knowledge of the extent of the legacy PDF contents was always going to cause a firestorm. I really want 30k to do well and this release was not well managed by whichever part of the company plotted out the game's announcements. 

 

At least now I can go into what will hopefully be an exciting preview for yet more plastic heresy later this week without this cloud hanging over the game. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Very happy to be wrong. Very happy they're not binning people's collections 40k 10th style, and I'm hopeful that the usability of legacies is better than 2nds track record.

 

I'm personally still not a fan of the army building structure and super not a fan of how they wrote the rules, but I'm interested in at least looking at the edition and glad for the people who don't share my particularities.

[Matcap86]

1 hour ago, Fire Golem said:

The only real reason to update the kits is to make them bigger. The Indomitus termis are perfect size wise imo. 

 

Disagree on that one, the 40k termies tower over primaris which are quite a bit bigger than HH marines. I feel they would be far too big to represent a marine in heavier armour. Saturnine (barely) gets away with their size with them being more like mini dreadnaughts.

[Joe]

I wound up pre-ordering the box, Liber Hereticus and the journal, partly as I didn't want my LGS to be out of pocket on people not buying anything and partly as I've been waiting on Mark II in plastic for an eon - I'll be selling the Saturnine bits on by and by the large.