Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, Captain Idaho said:

 

It's not quite the Administration of Holy Terra. When I worked for Lloyds Bank, you were tasked to do something, you sent a copy of it to your QC team and they looked at it, then it was out the door.

 

When dealing with projects we'd send an explanation of your work to the line manager who would send you a thumbs up and that's done.

 

The article could have been done in 5 mins easily.

 

The article itself could take 5mins, but GW might have held the article back until they could determine if they needed to add a notice of delay for the PDF to it as a result of adding back in stuff or if the rules team in charge of HH were able to confirm what was or was not returning for the details in the article.

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

It's not quite the Administration of Holy Terra. When I worked for Lloyds Bank, you were tasked to do something, you sent a copy of it to your QC team and they looked at it, then it was out the door.

 

When dealing with projects we'd send an explanation of your work to the line manager who would send you a thumbs up and that's done.

 

The article could have been done in 5 mins easily.

I worked for the government (well the military, but same sort of nonsense of red tape) and honestly I can't imagine GW being as efficient as a bank.

[BitsHammer]

3 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Also, I feel like playing Devil's advocate a bit but if there's Jetbike/Outrider character units in the Legacies PDF couldn't one of those have some ability/trait which gives (some) Jetbikes/Outriders Line?

 

Say, the character unit grants Line to Outrider models taken in the slot(s) that character adds to your army?

It's possible, but that's one of those "need to see the pdf" things. Until then I'm just left shrugging my shoulders going "this is how it looks unless GW proves me wrong".

[Captain Idaho]

1 minute ago, BitsHammer said:

I worked for the government (well the military, but same sort of nonsense of red tape) and honestly I can't imagine GW being as efficient as a bank.

 

Sadly, the bank was horrendously inefficient.

 

Still massively immoral so least that stereotype holds true!

[SkimaskMohawk]

21 minutes ago, Indy Techwisp said:

The difference between 40k Legends and Horus Heresy Legacies is that HH is actually balanced around those units being used as

 

Ehhhh.....they definitely weren't in 2nd lol

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Ehhhh.....they definitely weren't in 2nd lol

 

They were still intended to be used at official events, even if GWs track record with properly balancing stuff was as poor as its always been.

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Ehhhh.....they definitely weren't in 2nd lol

Yeah, it's well known that most of them were pretty meh. Great flavor options sure, but you were playing with a handicap for most of those legion choices.

[Jings]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

I realised what this new edition nightmare is - it's when the Chaos Space Marines Codex 3.5 of 40K was replaced with the atrocious 4th Codex.

 

Clearly GW haven't learned any lessons.

 

I was only a wee sprog at that time, but what got me anxious was it was starting to smell a lot like 10th. I wonder how big a dent the 10th debacle has made on GWs bottom line, at least among existing customers. I know I completely dropped 40K when that came out, and I was very heavily considering dropping the hobby entirely looking at the options strip for 3rd Ed. Seeing as HH has acted as a catching zone for disenfranchised grogs, I wonder if the backlash to the removal of options will change GW marketing approach going forward. 

 

That said, it's absolutely astounding to me that they even have to use the whole Legacies approach at all. The options are for a second edition running explicitly intended to be part of the full game and they're using the new Journals to introduce new units specifically intended to be kitbashed. Just include the unit profiles and their full options in the books in the first place and be done with it. 

 

GW need to shut their MBAs up and drop the baffling approach to kitbashing and conversions they've had for the past decade. It's absolutely ridiculous. 

[Marshal Rohr]

10th has been an unmitigated financial success. Largest bonus payout ever last year no? What it lacks is replayability. 

Edited Thursday at 02:23 PM by Marshal Rohr

[Joe]

 

Look at the size of those lads!

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Marshal Rohr said:

10th has been an unmitigated financial success. Largest bonus payout ever last year no? What it lacks is replayability. 

It also just completely forgot that narrative exists for the most part.

[MoriyaSchism]

3 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Look at the size of those lads!

Somehow they don't feel as big. First things I noticed are the tassets and the shorter waist section. I'm not feeling parts of this design. The bottom half of the helmet looks good but the crest part splitting the top plate of the helmet in half doesn't appeal to me. 

[Nephaston]

35 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Look at the size of those lads!

Love it, now I just need them to be cut like the indomitus ones with very interchangeable chests, shins, and tassets, for those third party bit makers.

 

Also soft confirmation that MkIV assault will come with another jumppack design, which will be fun to mix and match across all the designs.

Edited Thursday at 02:58 PM by Nephaston

[BitsHammer]

4 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Somehow they don't feel as big. First things I noticed are the tassets and the shorter waist section. I'm not feeling parts of this design. The bottom half of the helmet looks good but the crest part splitting the top plate of the helmet in half doesn't appeal to me. 

Existing one has the crest too, they are just making it more prominent:

 

 

Shoulder pads are different too and the lower torso trim has changed. Like the inclusion of hip armour though.

[MoriyaSchism]

1 minute ago, BitsHammer said:

Existing one has the crest too, they are just making it more prominent:

 

 

Shoulder pads are different too and the lower torso trim has changed. Like the inclusion of hip armour though.

Only some of them do. The helmets in the current range of available Cataphractii miniatures are quite varied. What bugs me about both examples shown in that image is that they are both identical and they merge the crest with the vent thing. 

 

 

[Jings]

8 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

10th has been an unmitigated financial success. Largest bonus payout ever last year no? What it lacks is replayability. 

 

Its success wasn't my point. It's indisputable that GW are enjoying unprecedented year-on-year success. If I were to hazard a guess, that success is largely spurred on by the continuing increase in popularity 40K has been enjoying for the past few years rather than the ruleset itself. My point was that 10th Edition had a notable drop of veteran players, and many of those players went to Horus Heresy - meaning they retained some of those customers. The fact that GW have repeatedly used language such as "this is the same game", "we're building from the previous system" rather than "we're overhauling it completely" strongly supports the idea that HH is a retention system for narrative and veteran players. What I was wondering is if the outcry and subsequent damage control "don't worry it's still there" article can be construed as a positive indicator that it will remain so going forward. 

[Nephaston]

One thing I noticed is that the book display versions don't have the round servo bit. Would not be surprised if they have an upgrade kit lined up since that bit also appears on the power armour upgrade kits:

[Indy Techwisp]

1 minute ago, Jings said:

 

Its success wasn't my point. It's indisputable that GW are enjoying unprecedented year-on-year success. If I were to hazard a guess, that success is largely spurred on by the continuing increase in popularity 40K has been enjoying for the past few years rather than the ruleset itself. My point was that 10th Edition had a notable drop of veteran players, and many of those players went to Horus Heresy - meaning they retained some of those customers. The fact that GW have repeatedly used language such as "this is the same game", "we're building from the previous system" rather than "we're overhauling it completely" strongly supports the idea that HH is a retention system for narrative and veteran players. What I was wondering is if the outcry and subsequent damage control "don't worry it's still there" article can be construed as a positive indicator that it will remain so going forward. 

 

I know we like to complain about GW being an Ontologically Evil Megacorp and all that, but the majority of the Backlash for 3.0 has come from the Leaked Libers, stuff that we weren't really supposed to see until we already had the PDF in hand so until we can actually check edit dates on the PDF in question we have no way of knowing if this was planned from the start or not.

 

It's entirely possible that GW haven't changed  about the Legacies PDF and that article was supposed to release closer to launch to explain what was in it but has had the "Don't worry..." bit tacked on because it's now also a damage control article.

[Lord Marshal]

40 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Look at the size of those lads!

 

I did not hate it. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

They were still intended to be used at official events, even if GWs track record with properly balancing stuff was as poor as its always been.

 

But they definitely weren't balanced to be a takeable choice or with the rest of the printed stuff in mind lol. 2nds legacy units were very much token supported by having rules, but the rules being so bad the units had no impact on the game or design space.

[Fire Golem]

Love the new Cataphractii. 

[Northern Walker]

1 hour ago, Marshal Rohr said:

10th has been an unmitigated financial success. Largest bonus payout ever last year no? What it lacks is replayability. 

It's certainly my least favourite edition by a long way, we've been using narrative missions from older editions to try and make it less awful.

I do wonder if the financial success is down to models rather than rules.

I would be very upset if heresy went the same way and the target player demographic was changed similarly

[Marshal Rohr]

6 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

It's certainly my least favourite edition by a long way, we've been using narrative missions from older editions to try and make it less awful.

I do wonder if the financial success is down to models rather than rules.

I would be very upset if heresy went the same way and the target player demographic was changed similarly

That’s really it. There have been some banger marine releases and they kept trapping people into combat patrols. 

[BitsHammer]

Just now, Marshal Rohr said:

That’s really it. There have been some banger marine releases and they kept trapping people into combat patrols. 

I don't even get the target demographic for 40k at the moment. It isn't young people because of the cost, it isn't narrative players because the only narrative they offer is a spreadsheet stapled to the rules that were written for tournament play, it isn't casual players because they need to own enough terrain to make three 5th edition tables just to play one game, and it isn't tournament players because the balance changes aren't frequent enough (nor aggressive enough about buffing underplayed detachments or units) and armies go too long between codex releases for the game to be balanced properly. Plus the high cost of rulebooks and model kits keeps people from switching armies through a tournament season.

 

I literally don't know who they are aiming 40k at because it hits none of the normal targets.

[gideon stargreave]

12 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I don't even get the target demographic for 40k at the moment. It isn't young people because of the cost, it isn't narrative players because the only narrative they offer is a spreadsheet stapled to the rules that were written for tournament play, it isn't casual players because they need to own enough terrain to make three 5th edition tables just to play one game, and it isn't tournament players because the balance changes aren't frequent enough (nor aggressive enough about buffing underplayed detachments or units) and armies go too long between codex releases for the game to be balanced properly. Plus the high cost of rulebooks and model kits keeps people from switching armies through a tournament season.

 

I literally don't know who they are aiming 40k at because it hits none of the normal targets.

I strongly suspect it’s people like me. I’ve built two armies in two years and don’t play at all. They are extensively converted and kitbashed from almost all of the model ranges. Most of the people I know who do actually play, use a whole bunch of editions depending on what they feel like. Having a look through the hall of honour here I can see a whole bunch of threads that showcase spectacular collections that are so big they’d never get used in any case. 
im sorry that this edition is disappointing to many people. Personally I haven’t enjoyed a game qua game since 5th edition, but the odd occasion I do play I like the social aspect. It’s a pity that this seems to have removed the social contract of the game on favour of a strange legalese. 
 

 

eta 

 

those new terminators are amazing, and will find their way into my blood angels and space wolves for sure. I also hope the previous ones flood eBay so I can make truescale mark 3 armour 

Edited Thursday at 04:01 PM by gideon stargreave