Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Captain Idaho]

Reactions are the least liked part of the game and the Ultramarines get to do more of it?

 

I'll pass 

[Marshal Rohr]

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

Reactions are the least liked part of the game and the Ultramarines get to do more of it?

 

I'll pass 

I think they weren’t liked because of lascannon deletion squads, which have been tamped down. I think some of these will actually be decent. The solar reactions are a ton of fun, even if not super lethal. 

[Mogger351]

Saturnine down to 35% discount at Wayland Games. Clearly going well!

[Vassakov]

https://www.facebook.com/WaylandGamesLtd/posts/pfbid02XYfGE8xBE2T1HiXaDTQKgbGG7dau1W8RQgjdhVR49skezPN5TpvuScrUn3oHBj1Zl

 

I don't remember seeing this for any previous pre-order windows. A 35% discount means that a retailer is probably barely breaking even at that point once you factor in shipping and other costs. 

[Redcomet]

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

Saturnine down to 35% discount at Wayland Games. Clearly going well!

Or it is the retailer over ordering and not factoring in that people generally have less money for fun stuff, and tend to save up money in uncertain times.

[Vassakov]

2 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Or it is the retailer over ordering and not factoring in that people generally have less money for fun stuff, and tend to save up money in uncertain times.

 

It's definitely plausible, but I've also seen other stores in the UK pushing a bit more aggressively. The Outpost has been making it clear they still have stock available, despite the fact that there doesn't seem to be any shortage. Warhammer.com in the UK isn't sold out, and I know a couple of local retailers who still have some which is a contrast to both 2.0 and the initial TOW launch. Leviathan didn't sell out as much as I think was suggested, but stock was certainly low after the initial rush and most of the big retailers were sold out at least initially. 

[Stitch5000]

14 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Saturnine down to 35% discount at Wayland Games. Clearly going well!

I don't think Wayland Games are reliably indicative of anything in particular,., I'd probably look at Element Games

[Irongert]

Several online retailers I use have stock/allocation numbers up and they are pretty high and not going down fast either. I don't think it's just the leaked rules though. The box simply isn't as attractive a starting point as the AoD box was. Add to that the marmite termies also turning some people off. That said, the direction they took the game in really doesn't help either. I know for me personally it's the reason I haven't ordered a copy. 

[Urauloth]

Part of it is just that Saturnine armour is divisive. A discounted box is a great buy if you like it, but if it does nothing for you it's a lot less appealing. If someone had offered me 35% off the 2E box with the Spartan and Contemptor I wouldn't even have deliberated, but I'd still have to talk myself into Saturnine and I'd be selling the TDA if I did it. I'm not saying "people don't like the rules" isn't a factor, just that there's a few reasons the box might be underselling compared to expectations.

I also can't afford to buy big Warhammer boxes like I used to, because my bills have gone up and my pay hasn't, and I can't be the only one in that camp. I already have a set of Mk.II tacticals on preorder, I'd rather wait for breachers, get some weapon sets or start building up a motor pool.

[Mandragola]

20 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

Part of it is just that Saturnine armour is divisive. A discounted box is a great buy if you like it, but if it does nothing for you it's a lot less appealing. If someone had offered me 35% off the 2E box with the Spartan and Contemptor I wouldn't even have deliberated, but I'd still have to talk myself into Saturnine and I'd be selling the TDA if I did it. I'm not saying "people don't like the rules" isn't a factor, just that there's a few reasons the box might be underselling compared to expectations.

I also can't afford to buy big Warhammer boxes like I used to, because my bills have gone up and my pay hasn't, and I can't be the only one in that camp. I already have a set of Mk.II tacticals on preorder, I'd rather wait for breachers, get some weapon sets or start building up a motor pool.

This is a tricky one for me. I haven't yet ordered Saturnine but £126 feels like a no-brainer. I do need a physical copy of the book.

 

I *think* I'm going to start a new Legion - probably Sons of Horus. I'm not happy about my Raven Guard and I haven't done traitors before. I've also got some spare tanks I never used, which happen to include the Spartan from AoD. I guess that's a decision made then.

[Mogger351]

47 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Or it is the retailer over ordering and not factoring in that people generally have less money for fun stuff, and tend to save up money in uncertain times.

It's a trend across many places, it might be that they over-bought (seems unlikely given many places have high stock availability) but it's a definite strong indicator that it isn't a smash hit for GW and if used as an indicator of game health, they'll be worrying I'd imagine.

[Urauloth]

19 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

£126 feels like a no-brainer.

On second thoughts, you're right. Looking at the cost of buying the 40 tacticals separately and adding the disintegrators and the Mk.II Centurion... yeah. With store credit it's 100 and I can't pass that up.

[Rusted Boltgun]

Wayland have also discounted the

Mark ii Tactical squad and the Libers by 35%.

The 3.0 rulebook on its own is only discounted by 15%.

 

[Inquisitor Verhek]

Now, if I can find similar discount in the USA... My search-fu is pretty weak.

[Valkyrion]

It is a funny box for buying multiples of. Once you're buying 2nd and 3rd sets you are paying a rulebook and praetor tax, which might be worth it - 80 marines, 20 terminators, 2 spartan, 2 contemptor, 2 praetors for around £280 is a good deal for expanding existing armies or starting new ones, but 80 marines, 12 saturnine terminators, 2 saturnine dreads, 2 weapon platforms and 2 praetors isn't as flexible or useful, especially if you've already bought one or two sets of 2nd edition.  

 

For me, the biggest reason against buying two boxes is the weapons platform. I don't want the one I'm getting, let alone another.  If that was 10 Breachers or MKII Assault Marines then the box becomes much more viable for multiples. But if the sky was green it'd simply mean I'm standing on my head, so it is what it is. 

[MagicHat]

With a second box, you could bling down the praetor into a centurion and have 3 weapons over for a Saturine command squad.

[Misterduch]

Anyone have actual experience with ordering from wayland from the EU nowadays?

 

Once I out my address in its comes out to 139 quid, which nets me almost 100 euro of savings compared to GW, and almost 60 compared to local 3rd parties, apperently this includes customs but I heard some conflicting information, like if you are past 145 incl shipping & vat you are slapped with almost 100 euro of customs etc

Edited Wednesday at 06:08 PM by Misterduch

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

The more I read of this new edition, the less I like about it. And the lack of care in the editing and the errors are appalling. I have a hard time finding anything good about it. It depresses me a little, I have to confess.

 

And I was very interested in this edition, to the point of putting aside other things. Necromunda, for example.

Sad, so sad...

Edited Wednesday at 06:16 PM by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Lord Marshal]

3 hours ago, Urauloth said:

Part of it is just that Saturnine armour is divisive. A discounted box is a great buy if you like it, but if it does nothing for you it's a lot less appealing. If someone had offered me 35% off the 2E box with the Spartan and Contemptor I wouldn't even have deliberated, but I'd still have to talk myself into Saturnine and I'd be selling the TDA if I did it. I'm not saying "people don't like the rules" isn't a factor, just that there's a few reasons the box might be underselling compared to expectations.

I also can't afford to buy big Warhammer boxes like I used to, because my bills have gone up and my pay hasn't, and I can't be the only one in that camp. I already have a set of Mk.II tacticals on preorder, I'd rather wait for breachers, get some weapon sets or start building up a motor pool.

 

Also unlike 2nd when 95% of people were brand spankin' new to the actual model range and almost certainly bought AoD at least once, there's now a large percentage of the 30k community who simply... don't need anymore models, or at least, don't feel the need to rush for a non-FOMO box. I think even if 3rd had been received by every single person as the best edition of 30k ever, it was still never going to do crazy numbers by comparison.

 

Being so close to the Space Wolf releases probably didn't help either, given how many people I knew who were weighing up which to grab.

 

Nonetheless, 40k youtubers temporarily pretending to care about 30k while the algorithm is hot on it will no doubt love another headline and thumbnail to spin from this.

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:28 PM by Lord Marshal

[Mandragola]

Another in my stream-of-consciousness articles on the Astartes units. This one covers the scarier infantry: Elites, Heavy Assault and Retinues. I blather on a bit at the start looking at the various melee weapons you can give these people.

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/horus-heresy-tactica-astartes-elites-heavy-assault-and-retinues-in-third-edition/

 

I've now ordered Saturnine from Wayland, plus some books. £126 was too good to pass up.

 

Edit: and one of my fellow shills has an article on Psykers: Wizards With Machineguns: Psykers in Horus Heresy Third Edition | Goonhammer

Edited Wednesday at 07:17 PM by Mandragola

[Captain Idaho]

Huh, GW normally sells out of new editions and boxes within minutes, yet everywhere I go there's plenty of availability and the 4th factory at Nottingham hasn't been completed yet...

 

I notice plenty of comments over the years that GW sells out and therefore are successful, so by that logic if a new such edition release doesn't sell out it means the opposite right?

Edited Wednesday at 09:12 PM by Captain Idaho

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Huh, GW normally sells out of new editions and boxes within minutes, yet everywhere I go there's plenty of availability and the 4th factory at Nottingham hasn't been completed yet...

 

I notice plenty of comments over the years that GW sells out and therefore are successful, so by that logic if a new such edition release doesn't sell out it means the opposite right?

On reductionist logic, which seems to be what they fall back on, yes. It does appear either they made too many, stores bought too many or it simply isn't popular. Unless the sales meet forecast it will probably be a red flag for GW that this sort of thing isn't popular, so cut it off type jobby. I suspect you won't find out for 12 months as they'll already have produced or be producing that far ahead and might as well roll with it to see if it recovers.

[Lord Marshal]

14 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Huh, GW normally sells out of new editions and boxes within minutes, yet everywhere I go there's plenty of availability and the 4th factory at Nottingham hasn't been completed yet...

 

I notice plenty of comments over the years that GW sells out and therefore are successful, so by that logic if a new such edition release doesn't sell out it means the opposite right?

 

Leviathan didn't sell out quickly either, you could still get boxes from places like Element months later. I was able to grab Hivestorms for similarly deep discounts around Black Friday, but I don't remember anybody calling those failures - quite the opposite in Kill Team's case despite it being a FOMO box, but it's doing better than ever.

 

That's without mentioning Dominion and Skaventide which- yeah.

 

Basically when it comes to new edition launches, Indomitus appears to have been the exception and not the rule.

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:26 PM by Lord Marshal

[Captain Idaho]

Indeed, GW rarely if ever explains how things are doing. Likely we'll see chatter as if things are normal anyway, though product sales could very well not increase and we'd see that in the annual report.

 

All I know is I'm not paying for the HH3.0, Chaos Codex 3.5 to 4th, debacle.

1 minute ago, Lord Marshal said:

And everybody knows Dominion and Skaventide's story.

 

I'm embarrassed to say, I do not.

 

Leviathan did sell out in some places but was better stocked anyway as the lead game for the lead faction of GW's golden goose.

[crimsondave]

I can only speak for myself but I know there is a meaningful number of GW customers like me who collect and paint but don’t play.  I’m not a fan of Saturnine so that adds no value for me.  I don’t care to play so the rule book doesn’t add much value, though I like new lore if there is any.  The only thing in it that really excites me is the mk2 so I just preordered a box of mk2 marines.

 

I think it’s too early to read much of anything into sales numbers now.  This isn’t like Indomitus or Leviathan.  It’s an edition spanning box, not fomo.  No need to make a mad dash to grab it.

Edited Wednesday at 09:36 PM by crimsondave