Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Mogger351]

9 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

Leviathan didn't sell out quickly either, you could still get boxes from places like Element months later. I was able to grab Hivestorms for similarly deep discounts around Black Friday, but I don't remember anybody calling those failures - quite the opposite in Kill Team's case despite it being a FOMO box, but it's doing better than ever.

 

That's without mentioning Dominion and Skaventide which- yeah.

 

Basically when it comes to new edition launches, Indomitus appears to have been the exception and not the rule.

 

Leviathan sold out intial releases and had additional production waves.

 

Hivestorm was also produced in waves, just as even the fomo boxes such as typhon are only marked as "temporarily out of stock".

 

Dominion was a failure because it followed indomitus, the covid bubble was bursting and GW clearly didn't understand the game was less popular.

 

Skaventide hasn't been as bad for the offloading boxes, but the expectations were lower so again, not sure about failure, but not a massive success optics wise.

 

None of the above were ever sold at massive discount before release, for the big summer blockbuster it has a lot of problems that suggest it's less popular than predicted.

[Mr Farson]

My friend works for one of the larger online stores in the UK, he said they usually sell 100+ launch boxes ez on pre order day in the first hour. They've done 23 of this launch and two are his 

[Corswain]

My FLGS has sold out and gotten a second order and a large (for Australia) online store near me has sold through about two thirds of their stock. These things fluctuate.

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

Local stores notwithstanding, these things don't fluctuate really. GW summer launches sell out all the times. We had plenty of problems with even things like Siege of Terra books.

 

Hmm. Not even the scalpers are buying into it 

[Mogger351]

Darksphere just emailed that theyre dropping to match the 35%

[Mr Farson]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Darksphere just emailed that theyre dropping to match the 35%

Couldn't copy and paste that for me could you? I've got two ordered from them and haven't received anything about that 

[Mogger351]

1 minute ago, Mr Farson said:

Couldn't copy and paste that for me could you? I've got two ordered from them and haven't received anything about that 

Not mine but here you go.

[Mr Farson]

Ah just seen it posted on their facebook as well

 

Insane for a gw product, the last time discounts were this deep was dominion and that black Friday sale they did in 7th ed after the BA codex released

 

 

5 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Not mine but here you go.

 

[Corswain]

36 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Local stores notwithstanding, these things don't fluctuate really. GW summer launches sell out all the times. We had plenty of problems with even things like Siege of Terra books.

 

Hmm. Not even the scalpers are buying into it 

Yeah but not sure this is the same as the 40K and AOS FOMO launch boxes. It's got (at least) a three year shelf life so it feels a bit early to hit the panic button.

 

I'm not disagreeing that this seems like a soft launch but keep in mind GW have already sold those boxes. To them it's still a win. 

 

It's a shame some FLGS will be left holding the bag though.

[Mr Farson]

5 minutes ago, Corswain said:

Yeah but not sure this is the same as the 40K and AOS FOMO launch boxes. It's got (at least) a three year shelf life so it feels a bit early to hit the panic button.

 

I'm not disagreeing that this seems like a soft launch but keep in mind GW have already sold those boxes. To them it's still a win. 

 

It's a shame some FLGS will be left holding the bag though.

 

Aod sold out when 2.0 dropped and you couldn't get hold of it for a good month post release. I got one of the last few copies available in the UK online at Zatu, after they went out of stock it was de nada for quite a while 

[Mandragola]

16 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

 

Aod sold out when 2.0 dropped and you couldn't get hold of it for a good month post release. I got one of the last few copies available in the UK online at Zatu, after they went out of stock it was de nada for quite a while 

I think the success of AoD surprised GW. Maybe this will, too.

 

Interesting that DS is doing 30% off everything heresy though. I will try to resist.

[Captain Idaho]

33 minutes ago, Corswain said:

Yeah but not sure this is the same as the 40K and AOS FOMO launch boxes. It's got (at least) a three year shelf life so it feels a bit early to hit the panic button.

 

I'm not disagreeing that this seems like a soft launch but keep in mind GW have already sold those boxes. To them it's still a win. 

 

It's a shame some FLGS will be left holding the bag though.

 

Economically speaking it'll be interesting to see where the stores go if the launch isn't hot and they loss money on it. Likely they'd buy into new HH releases a lot less, so GW will not be hurt financially as much until further down the line, but who knows really for some stores.

 

GW also make direct sales and they will feel any suppressed sales.

 

But then, we don't know for sure if there are sales flagging etc. Only observations of behaviour and availability, plus the odd useful anecdote from people in the industry.

[Corswain]

5 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Economically speaking it'll be interesting to see where the stores go if the launch isn't hot and they loss money on it. Likely they'd buy into new HH releases a lot less, so GW will not be hurt financially as much until further down the line, but who knows really for some stores.

This would be my concern if I was GW. From what I understand they make more money through trade sales to FLGS than direct and if those FLGS have a bad experience from unsold product they will be less likely to invest next time.

[Pacific81]

9 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Or it is the retailer over ordering and not factoring in that people generally have less money for fun stuff, and tend to save up money in uncertain times.

 

The owner of Wayland posted on DakkaDakka that it is a combination of over ordering and sales not reaching expected levels.

[Lord Marshal]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Leviathan sold out intial releases and had additional production waves.

 

Hivestorm was also produced in waves, just as even the fomo boxes such as typhon are only marked as "temporarily out of stock".

 

Dominion was a failure because it followed indomitus, the covid bubble was bursting and GW clearly didn't understand the game was less popular.

 

Skaventide hasn't been as bad for the offloading boxes, but the expectations were lower so again, not sure about failure, but not a massive success optics wise.

 

None of the above were ever sold at massive discount before release, for the big summer blockbuster it has a lot of problems that suggest it's less popular than predicted.

 

Thing is the ancedotes can be spun either which way. I don't remember anybody griping they missed out on Leviathan because it had 'sold out until the next wave', nobody had issues getting hold of that.

 

I definitely saw places offering deep discounts on Dominion before release.  Hell, I saw places offering deep discounts on boxes like the Black Templar Army Set during it's pre-order period and I never in a million years thought I'd see that. Wayland had deep discounts on Age of Darkness a month or two after launch as well. These things do happen.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I'm embarrassed to say, I do not.

 

Big launch "be there to beat the rush or you'll miss out for sure!" with stores overordering/not being the demand they expected. Deep discounts very quickly (at least for Dominion, I saw some 30% Skaventides during launch weekend but not as many/as deep as Dominion) because stock sat on shelves. Even GW was offering money off Dominion on Warhammer Day one year. Since AoS is still persona non grata for many people, there was a lot of rejoicing from certain corners.

 

Edited Wednesday at 11:57 PM by Lord Marshal

[BitsHammer]

9 hours ago, Redcomet said:

Or it is the retailer over ordering and not factoring in that people generally have less money for fun stuff, and tend to save up money in uncertain times.

There is also the chance that people aren't jumping to grab a box that they can reasonably assume based on the AoD box will be around all edition. Less FOMO on this one.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

Local stores notwithstanding, these things don't fluctuate really. GW summer launches sell out all the times. We had plenty of problems with even things like Siege of Terra books.

 

Hmm. Not even the scalpers are buying into it 

Scalpers may have learned their lesson after they got stuck with AoD boxes that they couldn't sell at a mark up because GW waited until they had them *then* announced it was an edition long box set.

That said it is clear this box isn't selling out as fast if the discount FLGS retailers still have loads of them, but I think sometimes we shouldn't assume that the game is automatically DOA just because it is selling slower. I mean it's selling for a start, that's better than Apoc 2.0 did.

[Lord Marshal]

7 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

that's better than Apoc 2.0 did.

 

And it still hurts. My personal conspiracy theory is that Apocalypse '19s failure set GW moving 40k/AoS into Alternating Activations back by at least another four editions. 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:01 AM by Lord Marshal

[BitsHammer]

40 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

And it still hurts. My personal conspiracy theory is that Apocalypse '19s failure set GW moving 40k/AoS into Alternating Activations back by at least another four editions. 

 

I still think it had one of the best mechanics to remove alpha strikes with having you resolve rounds at the end of the game turn meaning no unit was ever removed from the table without the chance to do *something* first.

[Dudley Nightshade]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

I still think it had one of the best mechanics to remove alpha strikes with having you resolve rounds at the end of the game turn meaning no unit was ever removed from the table without the chance to do *something* first.

This is pretty much all I have ever wanted from GW! Well, no, that's a lie. I didn't realize they had ever used such a mechanic. If they brought that into HH and gave each edition longer than three years of life, I would seriously consider starting a new army, even with the word salad rules.

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, Dudley Nightshade said:

This is pretty much all I have ever wanted from GW! Well, no, that's a lie. I didn't realize they had ever used such a mechanic. If they brought that into HH and gave each edition longer than three years of life, I would seriously consider starting a new army, even with the word salad rules.

There is a place for technical rules writing, but it should be in an appendix or seperate document like MtG does. Use simple language for the rules, save the technical stuff for when you need to clear up potential rules debates.

 

I'd love to argue for something like and eight year cycle (rotating between big and little games so we'd see something like 40k, Underworlds, AoS, Necromunda, 30k, Kill Team, Old World, Legions Imperialis and/or Blood Bowl) but I'd settle for a four year cycle between the big games so they have an extra year to cook.

[Hfran Morkai]

8 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Another in my stream-of-consciousness articles on the Astartes units. This one covers the scarier infantry: Elites, Heavy Assault and Retinues. I blather on a bit at the start looking at the various melee weapons you can give these people.

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/horus-heresy-tactica-astartes-elites-heavy-assault-and-retinues-in-third-edition/

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

There goes my hope that Tartaros Command Squads at least would get access to fists and hammers (even if it meant an upgrade sprue for the suspected new kit), at least for now. I wanted to be able to take a wide range of weapons on my Command Squad.

 

I suppose they could launch an upgrade kit still down the line with rules in either a journal or PDF (I know we're getting the Legacy Tartaros).

[Razorblade]

On 7/22/2025 at 10:19 AM, Mandragola said:

Fair point. They’re certainly improved by getting +1A on the charge or something like that. But not by enough, in my opinion. A charging world eater despoiler has three attacks hitting on 4s. Give him a bolter and have him stand still, he gets three shots hitting on 3s. 
 

So I don’t think World Eater despoilers are good. I think despoilers probably drag World Eaters down a bit, instead. I’d probably take tactical squads for them, so I could have good shooting and a respectable number of attacks on the charge too, if I was going for pure utility over the fluff. 
 

Workd Eaters and equivalent do have access to plenty of good melee units, like veteran assault squads, retinues and terminators. And the problem for despoilers is that they might see exactly that kind of thing on the other side of the board. The elite melee units tend to have more attacks, more wounds and WS5, yet pay the same price for power weapons that despoilers do. It’s far more efficient to spend those points on a weapon for someone who’ll do a much better job using it. 

Despoilers are completely dead between the unforgivable dumb shred changes, the mind-boggling display of unfettered stupidity that is the new Apothecaries and the unfathomable decision to make pin the most common status. Which sucks. In 2.0 there were plenty of incentives to go for shooting but Apothecaries, hotl and mission design still made despoilers usable (better than tacticals). There is no reason or excuse for any of these changes.

[Mike8404]

8 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

Leviathan didn't sell out quickly either, you could still get boxes from places like Element months later. I was able to grab Hivestorms for similarly deep discounts around Black Friday, but I don't remember anybody calling those failures - quite the opposite in Kill Team's case despite it being a FOMO box, but it's doing better than ever.

 

That's without mentioning Dominion and Skaventide which- yeah.

 

Basically when it comes to new edition launches, Indomitus appears to have been the exception and not the rule.

 

 

I feel like Indomitus did so well because it expanded on the Primaris line by giving players a new Veteran/Bodyguard unit that the rangewas in desperate need for,  a new and visually improved Chaplain, the Judiciar,  melee Primaris, and new Necrons, which added a lot to the hype.  Leviathan was great for new Termies, but nothing in that box was really exciting for SM players, who are the target audience for boxset sales. 

 

This is what hurt the 3.0 box.  I think GW overestimated how much the base would buy Mk II, so they packed units in the box that are either loved or hated by fans hoping to piggy back them off the Mk II hype.  If they had kept the Mk II, the Saturine Dread, and replaced the termies with new Tartaros, or even new Cataphractii (which wouldn't make sense considering they were in the 2.0 launch box), they probably would have sold more

[Irongert]

2 hours ago, Mike8404 said:

This is what hurt the 3.0 box.  I think GW overestimated how much the base would buy Mk II, so they packed units in the box that are either loved or hated by fans hoping to piggy back them off the Mk II hype.  If they had kept the Mk II, the Saturine Dread, and replaced the termies with new Tartaros, or even new Cataphractii (which wouldn't make sense considering they were in the 2.0 launch box), they probably would have sold more

Maybe but I think the box would need more than just have the saturnine replaced by refreshed normal terminators. There's still the AA gun which to many is just not attractive at all. Sure, they chucked in a weapon upgrade sprue but that doesn't feel like actual contents/value. You don't see that represented in a nice big amount of models on the box photo. Now I really start thinking about it, this box just doesn't have the momentum behind it that the AoD box had. Aside from the actual contents not being to everyone taste.

 

The AoD box had plastic vehicles/dreads in the form of a spartan and contemptor, which at that point were brand new. Dedicated plastic HH vehicles/dreadnoughts weren't a thing yet so that novelty alone made it more attractive. Nowadays that is no longer special, there are so many plastic kits for HH that it's not a draw in and of itself. 

 

The AoD box was the start of the special/heavy weapon upgrade sets. People needed the mk6 marines anyways to make use of all the new weapon upgrade kits to finally cost effectively build special/heavy weapon squads. That is another thing that is no longer a factor. People have their units already so that wave of people is also missing. 

 

More importantly, the AoD box was the first "official" big box for HH, in and of itself a novelty. BAC and BOP were still in essence board games that "accidentally" happened to be very good for getting affordable palstic HH models. 

 

The Saturnine box has none of those points going for it. Even if you don't take into account the divisive reception of the rules it's just not a great starting point for an army. I have bought several AoD boxes for my various legions because everything in that box would be usefull in one way or another. The new box just doesn't have content good enough to do the same. 

[LameBeard]

I have no particular interest in the rules or about half the models. But 35% off a box that already includes a bulk discount does look too good to pass up. I think my problem is do I have the physical space in my house?