Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[derLumpi]

2 of my buddies and I decided to stay with 2.0 because we don't want to buy new books every 3 years. It's not because we couldn't afford it we just want to stick with a given ruleset (this leaves out all the mess that GW is doing with this new edition).

 

We are all 'refugees' from 40k and to some degree from competitive gaming. We don't like restricting wargear options to what is in the box. 

 

The thing is we will probably still buy heresy kits because you can use the new stuff for all the units that were available in 2.0. I don't think that heresy sales will decline that much. The numbers for Saturnine will probably be bad. The rest I'm not so sure about. 

Edited 16 hours ago by derLumpi

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, Redcomet said:

The negativity on this forum.

 

Holy moly.

Still better than the three hours of whining that Mordian Glory recorded. 

 

I get having issues with the game, or with how GW fumbled the marketing but that level of salt only comes from grifting for clicks.

Edited 16 hours ago by BitsHammer

[lokkorex]

Bought the Hereticus, Auxilia and Mechanicum Libers today, guess I'll be focusing more on the Auxilia if I want to play any 3.0 in the future.

 

The Astartes rules feel confused, one the one hand I really like the expanded wargear options for Assault Squads, so I'm already looking forward to converting up more World Eaters to take advantage of this.

But on the other hand I see no point in taking any Techmarines, Apothecaries or most of the Consuls, why would I take a Siege-Breaker to unlock a Storm Battery Detachment, when I can just take Centurion and unlock both a Tactical Support Detachment and a Armoured Support, giving me more slots to fill with less restrictions?

 

The Mechanicum list feel.. complicated but I may need to give the Liber a couple more readthroughs. Splitting Castellax into two units, letting all Thallax in a unit exchange their weapons and leaving Photon weapons with no drawbacks except for a higher points cost all seem like strange and a bit confusing changes to me.

 

The Auxilia list seem to have inherited the most from the 2.0 Tercio rules, with many of them preserving the flavour of the forces they made possible. This is the only book that has actually got me feeling excited for building an army based on the new system!

[No Foes Remain]

I have bought two of the boxset from Dark Sphere which I will be splitting with a mate who will be painting and probably selling his Saturnine half, I mainly wanted the Mk2 (I've got some of the old Mk2 style heads from Red Warden via Archie's Forge) but I'll be taking 1 of each HQ and 3 of the termies and see how they look without the 'shell' shoulder pads.

 

As it stands, none of my armies (actual or planned) will work in 3.0 either because models are no longer legal (Ultramar Invictarii Chaplain, sword and board with comb-plasma. SoH Delegatus, Vigilator and Champion in Tartaros armour [one planned Blackshields revolved around the All Veterans with Mini Hqs as Sgt - with no HQ or troop slots- which lacks any melee ability now) or the actual armies can't function with the new force org chart because of units I've built and planned around a Force Org that's been around for nearly as long as I've been alive.

 

So me and my small circle will probably stick with 2.0, we may try a small 1k game of 3.0 but with all the issues with the rules and that (which just seems like it was all pushed to the printers before the final edit passover could be done) it just doesn't give me confidence in 3.0 at all.

[Mandragola]

47 minutes ago, lokkorex said:

I see no point in taking any Techmarines, Apothecaries or most of the Consuls, why would I take a Siege-Breaker to unlock a Storm Battery Detachment, when I can just take Centurion and unlock both a Tactical Support Detachment and a Armoured Support, giving me more slots to fill with less restrictions?

I think there’s definitely a case for techmarines. They can remove statuses from vehicles at the start of your turn, letting them function. A techmarine removing Pinned from a Spartan could win you the game. Apothecaries I’m less convinced by, to be honest. 
 

As for the Siege Breaker, you take him to unlock Phosphex and for his Cognis Signum. 

[Valkyrion]

Negativity and positivity on the internet has always been a bit misunderstood and/or given too much authority. 

 

If you like new 30k or you don't, no one has played anywhere near enough of it to make a sound judgment, so form your own judgment when you can. 

If you like the new models or not, that is your own opinion that needs no validation from elsewhere.

If you like the new fluff or not, as above. 

 

'the internet doesn't like HH3.0' - no, people with loud voices on the internet don't like HH3.0. Form your own judgment. 

'GW hates their players' - no, people with loud voices on the internet think this. Form your own judgment. 

'Magnus did nothing wrong' - no, Magnus jeopardised the future of the human race and was rightly punished. /jk(?)

 

There are almost zero absolutes in this hobby and just because you agree or disagree with a popular point of view doesn't make it true. 

[Irate Khornate]

Something I have noticed is a lot of people receiving damaged boxes and sprues for this release. 

 

It might be that I'm starting to keep an eye out for it at this point, but I don't think I've previously seen this many people saying theirs arrived damaged before. 

[The Yak]

39 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Something I have noticed is a lot of people receiving damaged boxes and sprues for this release. 

 

It might be that I'm starting to keep an eye out for it at this point, but I don't think I've previously seen this many people saying theirs arrived damaged before. 

 

Yeah maybe GW are smashing them all up because they hate their customers so much!

 

Note* The above statement is intended as a joke, please don't quote me and drag me into all the debate. This isn't my battlefield. Im Badab till I die (insert happy face emoji here)

[Matcap86]

49 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

Something I have noticed is a lot of people receiving damaged boxes and sprues for this release. 

 

It might be that I'm starting to keep an eye out for it at this point, but I don't think I've previously seen this many people saying theirs arrived damaged before. 

 

It's happened a lot with launch boxes. Both my leviathan and age of darkness boxes had issues, my Saturnine box had a disintegrator popped off the sprue but no damage so all good.

 

Think the producing tons of those to prevent another Indomitus type shortfall means they cut corners in qa on these sets. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Matcap86

[No Foes Remain]

1 hour ago, Irate Khornate said:

Something I have noticed is a lot of people receiving damaged boxes and sprues for this release. 

 

It might be that I'm starting to keep an eye out for it at this point, but I don't think I've previously seen this many people saying theirs arrived damaged before. 

A few have suggested that the rulebook is so beefy it's knocking it around in transit, though I have also seen some people get no termie sprues and extra Mk2 as well.

 

So check your boxes when they arrive, kin!

[Pacific81]

A rulebook so bad it actually physically breaks the miniatures

[Mr Farson]

13 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Well there's something on warcom https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/x0zklar7/take-the-dropsite-massacre-into-your-own-hands-with-a-free-mission-and-three-battle-reports/

 

The mission from the isstvann journal tactica for free.

 

Imagine telling your customers not to buy your dlc content because you will release chunks of it for free on warcom before it even releases

 

 

Absolute clown content

[caladancid]

I’m going to add this photo here as an illustration to the earlier comments on ‘contempt’ for customers. Call it whatever you’d like, this is not acceptable for a 70 USD book. 

[Xenith]

Why do you mean?

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, caladancid said:

I’m going to add this photo here as an illustration to the earlier comments on ‘contempt’ for customers. Call it whatever you’d like, this is not acceptable for a 70 USD book. 

I wouldn't call it contempt because that requires an emotional component.

 

No, this is caused by devs being forced to push out a product that isn't fully complete to meet an arbitrary deadline set by management to please investors.

 

The people who make those decisions aren't thinking about us therefore they can't feel contempt.

[Xenith]

9 hours ago, Sky Potato said:

They’ve removed Destroyers from the Libers. They will be in Legends so until that drops, I can’t use those models. 

 

You can currently use destroyers in 2.0. You'll be able to use destroyers from day1 in 3.0 when they release the legends pdf. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Xenith

[crimsondave]

4 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

A few have suggested that the rulebook is so beefy it's knocking it around in transit, though I have also seen some people get no termie sprues and extra Mk2 as well.

 

So check your boxes when they arrive, kin!

Baldermort posted on YouTube he got 70 Mk2s and no Saturnine.  Good news is those folks will get their Saturnine and a ton of extra mk2 when it’s said and done.

Edited 8 hours ago by crimsondave

[Sky Potato]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

 

You can currently use destroyers in 2.0. You'll be able to use destroyers from day1 in 3.0 when they release the legends pdf. 

Except Day 1 has been and gone without the Legends pdf. Which is my whole point.

[BitsHammer]

12 minutes ago, Sky Potato said:

Except Day 1 has been and gone without the Legends pdf. Which is my whole point.

They said we are getting it in a couple days on WHC. People need to chill and stop jumping to conclusions when we have clear timelines for things.

 

Edit: because I know people don't actually read WHC and just assume stuff I went back to the pdf article we got on Friday and the news hasn't changed.

 

 

Look, I get it's fun to complain about GW. I do it too. But let's not make mountains out of molehills just to have an excuse to complain.

Edited 8 hours ago by BitsHammer

[Xirix]

3 hours ago, caladancid said:

I’m going to add this photo here as an illustration to the earlier comments on ‘contempt’ for customers. Call it whatever you’d like, this is not acceptable for a 70 USD book. 

I've just woken up so for a second I was unsure what the issue was, then.... oh. That's pretty bad. XD

[Urauloth]

5 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

I have also seen some people get no termie sprues and extra Mk2 as well.

Man, some people have all the luck. 

[Sky Potato]

39 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

They said we are getting it in a couple days on WHC. People need to chill and stop jumping to conclusions when we have clear timelines for things.

 

Edit: because I know people don't actually read WHC and just assume stuff I went back to the pdf article we got on Friday and the news hasn't changed.

 

 

Look, I get it's fun to complain about GW. I do it too. But let's not make mountains out of molehills just to have an excuse to complain.

Well then, that goes back to my point about all this being lazy and minimum effort. Why are GW not syncronising release day of physical and digital products?

 

Common sense would say release the Legends pdfs on the same day as the Liber books, so people can go into their local Warhammer store or FLGS, buy Liber Astartes, go home, download Legends, and play a game on the first day of the edition using their existing collections.

 

In my head, the fact they managed to upload a Day -1 FAQ but not Legends on Day 0 is concerning. For GW not to manage to upload a key document to their own website - on launch day of what is now one of their three main game systems - suggests either indifference or incompetence.

 

As a stockholder, having my money tied up in a company that is displaying indifference or incompetence is not particularly confidence inspiring.

 

[BitsHammer]

Just now, Sky Potato said:

Well then, that goes back to my point about all this being lazy and minimum effort. Why are GW not syncronising release day of physical and digital products?

 

Common sense would say release the Legends pdfs on the same day as the Liber books, so people can go into their local Warhammer store or FLGS, buy Liber Astartes, go home, download Legends, and play a game on the first day of the edition using their existing collections.

 

In my head, the fact they managed to upload a Day -1 FAQ but not Legends on Day 0 is concerning. For GW not to manage to upload a key document to their own website - on launch day of what is now one of their three main game systems - suggests either indifference or incompetence.

 

As a stockholder, having my money tied up in a company that is displaying indifference or incompetence is not particularly confidence inspiring.

 

Or if you stop ascribing malice for five seconds it could be that they are proofing the document one last time after the uproar the community made to make sure it's good to ship and won't make things worse due to errors.

 

Look, I get you have a chip on your shoulder but not every decision is being made out of spite for you or anyone else.

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, caladancid said:

I’m going to add this photo here as an illustration to the earlier comments on ‘contempt’ for customers. Call it whatever you’d like, this is not acceptable for a 70 USD book. 

 

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

Why do you mean?

There’s a legionary picture on top of a legionary picture. It’s most noticeable at the right-side leg and power pack.

[Sky Potato]

Just now, BitsHammer said:

Or if you stop ascribing malice for five seconds it could be that they are proofing the document one last time after the uproar the community made to make sure it's good to ship and won't make things worse due to errors.

 

Look, I get you have a chip on your shoulder but not every decision is being made out of spite for you or anyone else.

I’m quite clearly not ascribing malice. I’ve never thought anything was being done out of spite, for me or for anyone else.
 

I’m asking why it’s taking so long to proof read a document and release it. I’m asking why a logical deadline wasn’t met.

 

I’m worried about the internal workings of a company I’ve invested in - both as a customer and a stockholder - who are showing signs of either indifference or incompetence by:

- Not having a strategy mapped out for their big annual summer release. 
or

- Rushing a known bad product out the door to meet their own deadlines.

This is a FTSE100 company now, and this is their sixth or seventh consecutive summer release. They should be better at this.

 

No chips on shoulders here, just genuine concern.