Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Marshal Rohr]

What the :cuss were they thinking? Mono-loadout consuls? This is un:cussing believable. It’s trash. It has no redeeming value. This isn’t for “modern audiences” or 2nd Edition/RT nostalgia. It’s disgusting. There is nothing in this bland, video game designed slop worth commenting on positively. This is only paralleled by the one true mobile game on the table, 40K, in its brutal assault on player choice, theme, and customization and no amount of quirky “hey remember crayon whirlwind” callbacks in the arcane journals will ever bring back something as simple as giving your veterans flamers and combi-grandes to make trench raiders or taking meltaguns on Breachers to fight Contemptor in a boarding action. This isn’t an edition for competitive players or narrative players. It’s not for anyone. 
 

 

edit: you know who this is for? It’s for the troglodyte GW finance and product people who see these smooth brained zoomer AI-using illiterates constantly commenting “how do I get into the Horus heresy” and think the problem is a little math to add a special weapon and pistol in an army list. We are one coke fueled genius idea by an MBA trying to meet a sales goal from combined weapon profiles and 3+ to hit then save. 
 

 

@TheTrans I take back everything I said, you were right. @SkimaskMohawk you were right too. :cuss this. 

Edited Friday at 01:23 AM by Marshal Rohr

[Brofist]

 

1 hour ago, Sigismund's Ghost said:

Clearly the design team isn’t on a drug testing program.

 

They didn't do enough, imo

[Ripper.McGuirl]

It’s strange how much more intricate they made the base rules only to totally tone down the legion rules.

[crimsondave]

3 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I don't get why people think traitors look better.

My Alpha Legion. Can't play my Headhunters because GW made the weapons thry have illegal. 

My Saboteuer. Can't play him anymore because GW made his weapon options illegal. 

My Iron Warriors. Can't play my Warsmith because GW made his weapon options illegal. 

For my Death Guard I can't say anything so far because I haven't seen their rules but damn did they do my wolves dirty.

Which is crazy because I didn't touch them in three years. I started to buy and built that army at the end of 1ed and then 2ed hit the shelves and basically nuked my whole army. After considering to  completely change whole thing I just out them on a shelv and now again they nuked more of them.

Half of my troop models are now unplayable, I had two Speaker of the Dead and lets bot talk about the preposterous Varagyr. 

It is just so unnecessary. 

For instance I am cool with them putting Grey Stalkers and Slayers back together. In fact I never liked them being two different unit entries but why the didn't they give them the option to swap their axes for chainswords? It would have been so easy. Give them that option and people would still be able to use their models. And the close Combat weapon kit provides new players with enough chainswords to build them. 

Which seems important because apparently....

.... GW makes rules for the mouthbreathers this fine gentlement describes here. I get it, a ten year old will struggle to exchange the Boltguns from Breachers and replace them with Volkite Chargers from the special weapon kit, because he ate the glue or whatever but is this enough reason to nuke an option?

What should I do with my unit of Breachers? Cut off the Chsrgers again put those Boltguns back on because GW now majes rules for people who are unable to combine a unit kit with a special weapon upgrade kit? 

That is preposterous and it makes me so mad.

Not only because I lost models I will probably not play in this edition but also because they hit me AGAIN with their stupid changes which do nothing for the game but making it less appealing. 

And shall I tell you something really sad?

I find GW's “No model no rules” business model so disgusting, but I want a big, fat box full of awesome models even more, so I'm definitely going to give in.

 

I get it.  I quit playing 40K, but I still buy the models.  The good news is this is not a FOMO box so you can at least make them wait for a few months before you buy it.

 

I've been around since 93 and I've seen some gnashing of teeth over edition churn.  I don't ever remember a meltdown this bad this quickly and it's a much smaller community of players.  It probably will blow over but it will be interesting to see.  Internet nerd rage is one thing but when you see the local HH group up in arms it hits a little different.

[Brofist]

Most people came to 30k to escape the edition churn, the army invalidations, and the general direction of mainstream 40k. '40k refuges' came seeking stability, a narrative experience, and thematic armies. We're seeing the heart of this taken away through less options, less flavour, and army wide invalidations driven entirely by business decisions.

 

I mean this with respect. Given all that, and that your very own group is up at arms... are you, erm, sure you're not out of touch?

[01RTB01]

I'm very mild mannered generally and my response was to go buy a knight ruinator this afternoon. Was going to get saturnine but that ain't happening now. I am genuinely disappointed with what's happening.

 

I'm not a power gamer and my heresy army was a reflection of that. I've collected 14,000 points of Emperor Children and painted 8000 points. 

 

2.0 wasn't perfect but the flexibility and options available allowed for people to do different things. Yes, there'll always be those that exploit things but that's the same regardless of edition or how toned back things are.

 

I don't think the EC legion and units rules are problematic. However, the core list leaves a lot to be desired. Due to local investment in the game I'll give it a go. However, I've numerous options and units that I don't know how I'm going to shoehorn in. Meh.

[crimsondave]

1 hour ago, Brofist said:

Most people came to 30k to escape the edition churn, the army invalidations, and the general direction of mainstream 40k. '40k refuges' came seeking stability, a narrative experience, and thematic armies. We're seeing the heart of this taken away through less options, less flavour, and army wide invalidations driven entirely by business decisions.

 

I mean this with respect. Given all that, and that your very own group is up at arms... are you, erm, sure you're not out of touch?

Who are you talking to?

[Djangomatic82]

Just saw the BA changes

RULES

-Legion rule is +1 S on charge

-Special Auxiliary Detachment is a Prime troop slot + reg troop slot + 2 Elite slots. can only take Assault squads for the troop slot and Dawnbreakers or vet assault squads for the elite slots.

-Special Prime Advantage rule is a unit get  Fear (1)

-BA advanced reaction when an enemy shoots at one of our units, after they are done, we can make a normal move towards that unit, but cannot end closer than 1" from it. if we are within 6", they have to take a Cool check and are pinned if they fail.

-BA gambit is, This model may ignore negative modifiers for wounds lost, but cannot gain Outside suppport.

 

ITEMS

-Inferno Pistols-any model with the blood angels trait may exchange a plasma pistol for one inferno pisto at +5pts

R6/FP1/RS8/AP2/D1-Pistol, Melta(3)-Traits:Assault, Melta

-Perdition Weapons-any model with the command, Champion or Sergeant subtype can exchange a power weapon for an perdition weapon. +5pts

Blade/I/A/S/AP3/D1-Breaching 6+, Aflame(1)

Axe/-1/A/+1/AP3/D1-Breaching 5+, Aflame(!)

Maul/-1/A/+2/AP3/D1-reaching 6+, Aflame(1

Spear/+1/A/S/AP3/D1-Precision (6+), Aflame(1)

-Illiastus Assault Cannon

sustained fire-R24"/FP3/RS6/AP4/D1-Heavy(FP), Breaching(6+)

Maximal fire-R24"/FP5/RS6/AP4/D1-Heavy(FP), Breaching(6+),Overload(1)

-Veteran Tactical squads and command squads can replace a HF with one for +10pts, 

-any cataphractii termy with a HF can exchange for +10pts

-Any Pred can exchange for free

-Any Leviathan can exchange nipple guns for +30pts

-can have one on a legion pintle mount for +20pts

UNITS

-Crimson Paladins only have power swords and Coriolis shield, exemplar can take a perdition weapon, 1 in 5 can take an assault cannon. lose power fists, chain fists, sunset swords, power axes, power spears and power mauls.

-Coriolss shield is -1 damage, minimum 1

-Dawnbreakers lose the sword case, only have falling star spears and champion can take a perdition weapon. can take meltas for 25pts. still have grenade discharger. special rule is cannot be shot by interceptions more than 12" away.

-Angels Tears-have 2x volkite serpentas and can trade for a grenade launcher-thats it.

they still have rad grenades and jump packs, no chain swords or melee weapons. special rules are -Deepstrike, bulky2, vanguard 3, bitter duty and Firestorm.

-Incaedius Dreadnaught can deepstrike, has paired perdition talons with 2 heavy flamers, can change those to 2 meltaguns for 20plts, or 2 Illiastus assault cannons for 30pts. Its special rule is, when it Rush's, it gains Antigrav subtype. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 04:48 AM by Djangomatic82
adding missing info

[Redcomet]

5 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

It’s strange how much more intricate they made the base rules only to totally tone down the legion rules.

There are Legion journals coming out. There will be more rules in there. 
 

A :cuss:ty way to do it, but it is what it is

[hinace]

SoH changes

RULES

-Make Volley attacks at full BS

-Special Auxiliary Detachment is 2 Prime troop slots + Elite + Army Vanguard slots. 

-Special Prime Advantage rule is a unit gains champion sub-type  and Duelist's Edge  

-SoH advanced reaction can ignore challenges from opponents with lower WS.

-SoH gambit is, the controlling player's model gains the Phage (T) Special rule.

 

Looks fine.

 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

 

[Astartes Consul]

I've been in and out of the hobby since 40k third edition. While I'm no rules encyclopedia, this is one of the most chaotic releases I've seen GW do. The complete lack of nuance, the disparity between factions, the mistakes. Not that previous rules have been free of some of these aspects - in Heresy 1.0, the printed Militia list was released without points costs on some units and with non-existent wargear as options - but I've never seen so many different problems in a single package. 

 

While every new edition has its pros and cons, and always generates a certain amount of negativity and pessimism, it is not fair to say that the reactions to these leaks have been just the normal new edition jitters. Almost everything I've read, on here and in other spaces, from people disappointed about these rules has been based on what the army lists will do to existing armies and how they will change the whole nature of the game. Rather than people who power game or are just annoyed their favourite unit has been nerfed. 

 

Not sure I've ever seen anything like this before, tbh.

 

[Northern Walker]

It appears the current malaise of rules design has metastasised from 40k to 30k, very sad to see.

I hope that GW have the sense to course correct but I've been burned by what they've done to 40k. As other's have said the only recourse is to withhold your financial support of products that don't fit your needs and wants as a consumer. 

[HeinzD]

A lot of talk about the traitor liber, did someone post it in here already, did i miss it? 

Only seen the Loyalist one and the weapons

[Lord Sondar]

24 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

While every new edition has its pros and cons, and always generates a certain amount of negativity and pessimism, it is not fair to say that the reactions to these leaks have been just the normal new edition jitters. Almost everything I've read, on here and in other spaces, from people disappointed about these rules has been based on what the army lists will do to existing armies and how they will change the whole nature of the game. Rather than people who power game or are just annoyed their favourite unit has been nerfed

I think this might sum a lot of it up.  Heresy was driven by two factors people who wanted to recreate the characters and units we read about in the Black Library and people would didn't like the way 40k was heading.  

 

I'm primarily a builder and painter but like to make lore accurate models.  I do game but not as much as I build and paint.  I'm going to pick up the new rules but will continue to make whatever fits my head canon.  If my consol wants a different weapon set that's okay for me.

 

[MARK0SIAN]

None of the stuff we’ve seen so far is good but It feels like they accidentally sent a first draft of the loyalist book to the printers and haven’t noticed the mistake.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

5 minutes ago, HeinzD said:

A lot of talk about the traitor liber, did someone post it in here already, did i miss it? 

Only seen the Loyalist one and the weapons

I just checked the part of Sons of Horus and the common one and some things are good (Little Horus f.e is a bit more fine),others are just OK (Abaddon now must choose between combi bolter or Parangon blade, but for free) other I dislike them (f.e Justaerin now must pay for the Carsoran axes. Or the legion trait) others are terrible (No paired lighting claws for Reavers or Justaerin or characters. Or jump packs or bikes for characters), and other are aberrant(No power fist or chain fists for terminator. Tartaros for example)

 

Still digesting this info, but this doesn't look good at all in my opinion 

[Wibbling]

For me it's not so much the intent, but why change attacks to :cuss:, or strength to RS? We had brutal for damage OK, flatten it but hey ho. 

 

Yesterday I read the Alpha Legion 'Rewards of Treachery' entry and it read like a badly written logic problem. I'm sure to a rules lawyer power gamer it's ideal. For me, I left with a headache, disinterest and not knowing if I could include other legion army list entries or not. 

 

And I don't have the time to decipher it all. I'm too old, too damned tired and when a challenge commentary ends with 'once you get the hang of it' I just can't be bothered. Rolling endless dice hoping for a 6 for some 'gambit' to work isn't fun. It's tedious. The lad and I created a card based system for our tank/titan battles. You bash down a card to hit/damage and then you counter with another of the same suite or higher/lower and that's the damage you take. Yeah, it's creaky but our group liked it and we had fun - which seems to have been lost. 

 

Apologies for  ranting. I can't imagine anyone wants to listen to my tale of whinge!

[Razorblade]

21 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

It appears the current malaise of rules design has metastasised from 40k to 30k, very sad to see.

I hope that GW have the sense to course correct but I've been burned by what they've done to 40k. As other's have said the only recourse is to withhold your financial support of products that don't fit your needs and wants as a consumer. 

Yeah not really tough.

Design philosophy aside the 40k people are actually good at writing rules. If you read the roundtable it is painfully obvious that the heresy designers have absolutely zero clue what they're doing. 

Heresy is now getting the worst of both worlds with 40k style lack of customization, obsolete Minis, and update cadence, whilst still being stuck with incompetent writing

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

25 minutes ago, HeinzD said:

A lot of talk about the traitor liber, did someone post it in here already, did i miss it? 

Only seen the Loyalist one and the weapons

 

4chan -> /tg/ -> hhg

[Joe]

There's a rather glaring error that should've been caught during proofreading on Angron Transfigured's profile page. Check out his statline.

[HeinzD]

12 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

 

4chan -> /tg/ -> hhg

Thank you very much, but they seem to only have bits and pieces, yet people talk about EC as if the whole liber just dropped, am i stupid?

[Astartes Consul]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

There's a rather glaring error that should've been caught during proofreading on Angron Transfigured's profile page. Check out his statline.

Don’t tease us like that man! 

[GenerationTerrorist]

Yeah, definitely giving the pre-order a complete pass this weekend.

This looks like an absolute shambles of arse not talking to elbow when it comes to cohesive rules writing.

 

Just waiting for them to ruin The Old World, and I can finally be done with GW.

[Nephaston]

19 minutes ago, HeinzD said:

Thank you very much, but they seem to only have bits and pieces, yet people talk about EC as if the whole liber just dropped, am i stupid?

Look out for spoiler tagged links. Though they may not be permanent

As far as I can tell the contents of the link are free of any abuse, but linking it here might also just get it nuked quicker.

Edited Friday at 08:30 AM by Nephaston