Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Nephaston]

Huh, yeah, didn't even think about the exemplary units until now. That's another 20 units vanishing into the ether until maybe re-appearing in a Journal.

[Redcomet]

3 hours ago, roryokane said:

That's not the point. They're narrowing the options to the current 40k scourge that is "IF WE DON'T MAKE THE MODEL OR WARGEAR FOR IT YOU CAN'T HAVE IT" - one of the reasons HH appeals is that it is much more OLD 40k in its character - both in terms of rulesets but also in terms of attitude to stuff like this.
It's like GW is determined to crush this last hold-out as opposed to just letting people enjoy their hobby.

And I am honestly shocked you didn’t see this coming and thought HH had some special  status. 

Edited Friday at 01:45 PM by Redcomet

[Waaagh?]

4 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Huh, yeah, didn't even think about the exemplary units until now. That's another 20 units vanishing into the ether until maybe re-appearing in a Journal.

 

Or they just update the expanded rules in a pdf like they did last edition for the ones already released in 1st.

[W.A.Rorie]

=][= Please be civil to each other =][=

A vast majority of us are irate about the changes

Everyone has been civil for the most part.

Please continue that trend. 

=][= We are watching =][=

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:00 PM by W.A.Rorie

[Sky Potato]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

Iirc the box includes a sprue of markers. Other than that there doesn't seem to be any incentives to order from geedubs directly, except for maybe the maps, which sound more like an additional purchase than a bonus.

Well yeah, but you get the sprue of markers if you buy from an FLGS.

 

What limited edition incentives are GW doing to make sure people buy direct from them at £190 per box rather from an FLGS at £152?

 

The launch just feels a bit out of step with previous launch editions. There’s been loads of coverage on WarCom, but there’s been no mention of in store events, limited edition trinkets, no mention of the queue being put in place on the website. Outside of the daily WarCom articles, it seems like the bare minimum. The Customer Service team couldn’t answer simple questions like “will the publications be released electronically”.

 

Heresy 2.0 - loads of legion painting guides in the months coming up to release on YouTube, for example. 

vs

 

Heresy 3.0 - 60 second short clips on youtube. 

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like quality is going down across the board

 

Quality of rules writing

Quality of social media advertising

Quality of webstore offers

 

The whole new edition is just coming across as “launching a new edition because we’ve been told to by corporate and the shareholders” vs “launching a new edition because we think the current one is tired and needs a full refresh”

 

I mean, I’m complaining but I’m also a realist, I know I’ll be buying a box tomorrow.

[Robbienw]

58 minutes ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

 

 

 

 

 

Remember back in 2017 when the final episode of BBC's Sherlock was so bad people genuinely thought it was fake?

 

Now, maybe they will FAQ it, but that's clearly not the point, and the omissions are everywhere, and an FAQ that's as long as the actual book you've paid £30 for is not good enough from anyone, let alone a huge name like GW. How is this difficult to understand?

 

 

 

 

Not the point mate, this is not about quality control.  There are people talking about it like its intentional and they won't be able to use their Tartaros with power fists, when its so obviously just been omitted in error.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

The links with the leaks are down. Damn, I was still reading them...

[Matcap86]

1 minute ago, Sky Potato said:

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like quality is going down across the board

 

Quality of rules writing

Quality of social media advertising

Quality of webstore offers

 

The whole new edition is just coming across as “launching a new edition because we’ve been told to by corporate and the shareholders” vs “launching a new edition because we think the current one is tired and needs a full refresh”

 

I mean, I’m complaining but I’m also a realist, I know I’ll be buying a box tomorrow.

 

This is a thing I've been worrying over for a while now. At some point a company's "line must go up" can't be sustained by giving the people what they want anymore via a sustainable buisness model. That's when the cutbacks /shrinkflation/loss of quality gets really egregious, until the bubble pops and the company goes under, get sold or manages to restabilize.  

 

I've been worrying for a bit that in the past 4ish years we've seen GW crest the hill on that. The over-reliance on nostalgia bait, the loss of quality, proofreading, and indepth games. More and more casting issues (lots of the newer vehicles have orange skin and plastic flow issues and the launch of age of darkness saw most of my infantry models have pretty severe striations and scratches on them.)

 

Sure the current momentum will keep them going for quite a bit, but I still worry on what the future will bring on this. 

 

[BitsHammer]

On 7/10/2025 at 3:54 AM, Brofist said:

Today's GW just seems incapable of reproducing anything as authentic and interesting as their earlier editions. Design from a corporate boardroom is here at last. What a disappointment this is shaping up to be!

I think we're also dealing with a drastically different design ethos. To ensure no one is chased off by feel bad moments things keep getting shaved off the rules. Night fighting, being swept, failing 3" charges...a lot of the design seems to be fixated on the idea that the player shouldn't be feeling anything negative during the game. The older design ethos wasn't concerned with that, they were concerned with trying to simulate a battle.

 

As for the leaks I've got mixed feelings about the Night Lords. Only getting a bonus by inflicting status conditions is frankly not great because it means my rule is conditional on others failing dice rolls and I don't start the game with a rule. I was hoping for something more in line with the 2.0 outnumbering rule (they even made bikes bulky this time which would have helped) and we lost access to bike and jetbike options for characters which really hampers my plans for a Jadhek Clan themed force. I do like the NL gambit (just throwing someone else under the bus to slow the opponent down while you kill their support is peak Night Lords so someone there does understand them at least a bit), the detachments aren't bad, and I think Chainglaives look better than last edition but frankly this is a very mixed bag for me.

 

Like I got some of what I wanted, but lost other things I wanted until they get around to selling us the character options in a bespoke kit.

[Vassakov]

2 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Not the point mate, this is not about quality control.  There are people talking about it like its intentional and they won't be able to use their Tartaros with power fists, when its so obviously just been omitted in error.

 

I think the issue is that there are so many issues and things that might be errors or might be intentional it's genuinely impossibly to tell.

 

We can infer that Legion Specific units and Consuls with models getting restricted options is a design decision, but even then with the number of issues that are already popping up (not just in unit entries, some of the Legion rules appear to do very little or in the case of the IF reaction, kill their own unit...) that it's just appalling to be charging £44 per book for this.

 

That all having been said, one of the issues with leaks has become devastatingly apparent - we've seen bits and pieces, without the full context and, lets be blunt, from someone with an axe to grind against parts of the community which is the worst possible way of doing things. If it does have an impact on sales, then it's entirely plausible that GW crack down even more on sending review copies out because this is probably a disaster for them.

 

Honestly, if they've got the Legacies and an FAQ/Errata ready they should probably just publish them now. 

[Captain Idaho]

Been mulling it over... removal of options and thus kitbashing, alongside poor rules for certain things that are quite glaring... it's disappointing. Very much so.

 

As an Ultramarines fan, Guilliman’s rules seem... weak.

 

Invictarus Suzerain losing Thunder Hammers is lame, but I do like their stat increase to 3 attacks. Stripped of some rules though.

 

Legatine axes are cool though. AP3 isn't as powerful as AP2, of course, but I do like Breaching and +1 strength. With +1 attack on Suzerain they could very much be more effective overall now.

 

Reckons I can enjoy the game still, but there's bits missing, including Destroyers, so it's a bit concerning.

 

I paused building my themed Macragge's Honour army because I wanted them to be legally capable of being played and I'm happy I did that as who knows what weapons can be taken and which units.

 

Hmmm.

Edited Friday at 02:10 PM by Captain Idaho

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Torvak Kyre said:

How are these in any way comparable?

 

”The power fist modelled on this guy works differently to the power fist modelled on this guy”  has no relation what so ever to someone bringing a massed amount of Saturnine. 

Someone being a fan of some models and coming up with some lore justification for using an unusual number of them is the core of what Heresy is.
 

Take destroyers for example. They generally aren’t seen in large numbers and weren’t really even a thing in lore til 2012, but they resonated with some people. They then went on to make destroyer companies and other such forces that would see a large number of destroyers in use. They were given a sandbox where they were able to build their own thing and what they were modelling was reflected in the rules, allowing them to realise that narrative. 
 

I’m sure the same will be done by some for Saturnine. 
 

If they turn around and stop allowing destroyers to take rad launchers, and people are just expected to use that model as a guy with bolt pistols, the narrative connection between what you’ve created and what’s going on on the table is interrupted. 
 

Also saying that people ‘can’t handle the idea of a power fist being a frost weapon’ leaves a sour taste. I’m sure everyone here is capable of playing to those rules. But they’re also entirely justified being upset that they’re now forced to do so. 

 

What I keep seeing is people simultaneously complaining about increased restrictions in modelling and "the hobby", the fluff for that destroyer company can stand, you can proxy the models as other units where relevant.

 

Does every possible combination of bits need to mean something in game terms? Do you need a rules based pat on the back for your choices. Are rules actually ruling people's modelling and hobby decisions rather than the creativity they're complaining is gone?

 

Note, it cannot be denied the destroyer changes are weird, I don't like that either and it's a fair complaint. I want to get to the mentality of it all, how much of it is a rules complaint vs simply being upset you can't do what you want exactly vs is there an attachment thing and so on, as it will be different for everyone and some might not be bothered at all.

[Irate Khornate]

At the end of the day money talks. This is going to keep happening unless you hit the pocketbook. I'm not saying there needs to be a boycott, just laying out basic facts. If a company is turning a direction that you do not like and you keep buying product from them they're going to keep going that same direction you don't like. Do with your money what you will, it's your time and your hobby.

[Vassakov]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ifl8ekwd/get-ready-to-battle-in-the-horus-heresy-with-this-learn-to-play-video/

 

Oh good lord. There's typos in this article as well, and the bottom section says that the Titan article (published yesterday) is "coming tomorrow."

 

[Mogger351]

1 minute ago, Irate Khornate said:

At the end of the day money talks. This is going to keep happening unless you hit the pocketbook. I'm not saying there needs to be a boycott, just laying out basic facts. If a company is turning a direction that you do not like and you keep buying product from them they're going to keep going that same direction you don't like. Do with your money what you will, it's your time and your hobby.

 

 

I mean, its GW, earning less means one of 2 things, completely rewrite it again ASAP, or let it die.

[Astartes Consul]

6 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

As an Ultramarines fan, Guilliman’s rules seem... weak.

 

Invictarus Suzerain losing Thunder Hammers is lame, but I do like their stat increase to 3 attacks. Stripped of some rules though.

 

Legatine axes are cool though. AP3 isn't as powerful as AP2, of course, but I do like Breaching and +1 strength. With +1 attack on Suzerain they could very much be more effective overall now.

 

Reckons I can enjoy the game still, but there's bits missing, including Destroyers, so it's a bit concerning.

 

Hmmm.

 

I basically thought this way at first. And as a Legion, we haven't been that badly hit. Don't mind the Thunder Hammer loss, as it was a very OP unit.

 

But the Consuls rules have been the final straw. Stock options only, but in a system that now requires you to take additional HQ choices to unlock more units/flexibility? No thanks.

 

Edited Friday at 02:11 PM by Astartes Consul

[BitsHammer]

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

I mean, its GW, earning less means one of 2 things, completely rewrite it again ASAP, or let it die.

I mean they killed WFB and dropped Apoc 2.0 because of a lack of sales so I'm betting the latter over the former.

[Sky Potato]

Have there been leaks for knights yet? I’d love to know if they’ve included the Dominus knights this time around.

 

On a side note, does anyone have the Knight Castellan .pdf from 1st Ed Heresy they can send me?

[Irate Khornate]

19 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

 

 

I mean, its GW, earning less means one of 2 things, completely rewrite it again ASAP, or let it die.

At this point, I would say they have too much money invested to just let it die. Too many brand new model kits coming out and too many they've already redone. I could be wrong though and if I am I would still rather watch it die then live on as a corpse of its former self.

[BitsHammer]

4 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

At this point, I would say they have too much money invested to just let it die. Too many brand new model kits coming out and too many they've already redone. I could be wrong though and if I am I would still rather watch it die then live on as a corpse of its former self.

WFB 8th ed had the most updated model kits ever released in a single edition and they still killed it. Granted that was under Kirby instead of Roundtree but I wouldn't use sunk cost as a reasoning for GW to not kill a game.

[No Foes Remain]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

 

Thread has moved on a bit since the post I made was waiting for approval, but I popped off an email to GW.

I think I'll join you in sending a carefully worded email, though I'm gonna wait until I'm not melting and had enough sleep to convey my points effectivly and politely as it isn't the fault of the poor bugger who ends up reading these that someone in upper management screwed up.

[Vassakov]

4 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

WFB 8th ed had the most updated model kits ever released in a single edition and they still killed it. Granted that was under Kirby instead of Roundtree but I wouldn't use sunk cost as a reasoning for GW to not kill a game.

 

To be fair, wasn't basically all of that transitioned into AoS and then gradually phased out or changed as AoS developed? It's not as if they stopped selling the kits.

 

So, I guess all those people wanting 30k units in 40k might end up getting their wish...

[Stitch5000]

Destroyers are old models that got a stay of execution at the launch of HH2... Pretty sure the non-Jump Pack ones were actually discontinued for a brief point of time I can't believe people are so shocked that they are not in the core book. They'll live in legacies for a bit and then go in a journal when the inevitable plastic version comes along and half the internet says "OMG I can't believe how much bigger they are scale creep. Oh yeah but they can have that new *destroyer only" weapon."

[Northern Walker]

32 minutes ago, Vassakov said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ifl8ekwd/get-ready-to-battle-in-the-horus-heresy-with-this-learn-to-play-video/

 

Oh good lord. There's typos in this article as well, and the bottom section says that the Titan article (published yesterday) is "coming tomorrow."

 

Fairly convinced that GW's marketing/community team are really rather stupid. I reckon that if the company spent money on a customer engagement team instead of bribing "influencers" with free models for marketing then they'd a) have a better handle on what the playerbase for their games typically want and b) their communications wouldn't read like amateur hour dross.

[El Ravager]

37 minutes ago, Irate Khornate said:

At the end of the day money talks. This is going to keep happening unless you hit the pocketbook. I'm not saying there needs to be a boycott, just laying out basic facts. If a company is turning a direction that you do not like and you keep buying product from them they're going to keep going that same direction you don't like. Do with your money what you will, it's your time and your hobby.

 

I agree with spending money on what you actually like.

 

But you will never change a company by voting with your wallet.  When Games Workshop is no longer worth your money, you are done with Games Workshop.  That's it.  You are choosing to move on and spend your hobby money else where.  Games Workshop is not reforming because people stopped spending as much.

They will double down until they die.  That is how corporations with shareholders do business. Unfortunately.