Marshal Rohr Posted Monday at 03:38 PM Share Posted Monday at 03:38 PM I think everyone is missing that the Fist reaction is intentional as punishment for Stone Gauntlet spam. 01RTB01, painting.for.my.sanity, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf and 1 other 3 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry Nostraman Lizard Posted Monday at 04:24 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:24 PM 9 hours ago, Antarius said: Good catch! Although that's arguably much worse than I expected I know we probably shouldn't be surprised, exactly. Still, this feels much worse than how they handle the other main games, as it seems like they've actively stripped out stuff from the armies to (supposedly) add them back in later. In the same vein, I know the 3-year cycle is pretty much a given at this point, and I also know people have predicted the falling of the sky and the imminent collapse of GW for ages, but this just feels much more unsustainable than, well, anything I've seen from them for the past 32 years. Gw's unsustainability will have to crest the hill, and I feel like we did, for a moment. All these new systems, always starved for content because they get released without complete rosters, which leads to drip-fed content over months. There's only so much shelf space in brick and mortar stores. They already culled a ton of the stormcast (the poster boys) from AoS. Aeronautica lived a few sad, short, years. I'm surprised Blood Bowl and Necromunda haven't had massive axes to their ranges, or completely gone. Warcry, another one. Killteam is doing too well to be axed and is now a loophole way to introduce model refreshes without committing to the whole army thing. skylerboodie 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted Monday at 04:33 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:33 PM (edited) 16 minutes ago, Hungry Nostraman Lizard said: Gw's unsustainability will have to crest the hill, and I feel like we did, for a moment. All these new systems, always starved for content because they get released without complete rosters, which leads to drip-fed content over months. There's only so much shelf space in brick and mortar stores. They already culled a ton of the stormcast (the poster boys) from AoS. Aeronautica lived a few sad, short, years. I'm surprised Blood Bowl and Necromunda haven't had massive axes to their ranges, or completely gone. Warcry, another one. Killteam is doing too well to be axed and is now a loophole way to introduce model refreshes without committing to the whole army thing. I reckon they know it, and I think the idea is more about pushing non-GW systems off the shelf so there's room for those 'guranteed seller' GW kits. Even if the longevity of those systems is in question, the first weekend is probably going to do wonders for that store's bank balance versus taking a risk on the latest indie game which has every chance to stumble and die even if it does everything right. Stuff like Aeronautica and bringing The Old World back were likely more about trying to keep that slice of wargaming pie for themselves. So what if The Old World doesn't overtake 40k and AoS? It pretty much snuffed out nearly all the oxygen for any other rank-and-flank system, for example. X-Wing had already gone down in flames as Aeronautica was rolling out, so being relegated to a sub-line of Legions Imperialis worked out fine for James in the long run anyway. GW don't care which system you're spending your money on, just that it's going to one of THEIR systems, or even just buying their models to use with another game like OPR because what is one lost rulebook or codex purchase versus thousands on a full army? Edited Monday at 04:41 PM by Lord Marshal Iron Father Ferrum, skylerboodie, LameBeard and 3 others 1 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted Monday at 04:38 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:38 PM (edited) The pricing is very interesting. MSRP at $315, ebay is selling for ~$260. This seems like a lot compared to 299 from 2.0, but the Konflikt 47 box is debuting at $330 and looks to be around the same content (including hardbound rule book). The GW box actually looks slightly better content wise. No idea how it stacks up in terms of points, as I don't play, but I don't think I've ever seen an indy game MSRP above GW like this. I don't think I have any interest in playing the game, as it looks like a train wreck of rules. I might pick up the box for collection purposes and have MK II for Dark Angels. Reading the leaked rules feels like trying to read local ordinances. Overly wordy, dry and really disengaging. Edited Monday at 04:39 PM by twopounder Sigismund's Ghost 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted Monday at 04:41 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:41 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, apologist said: I don't think so. Better instead to have a brief summary in naturalistic language, with the 'legal stuff' boxed out nearby. Agree. Even the simple description of how it works in the main section, then an index of the step by step stuff at the back to resolve arguments. I remember the heady heights of 2016 when GW realised there were too many core rules and prided themselves on fitting them all onto 2 sheets of A4 paper. That should be a watermark. All the rules should fit onto and be understandable from 2 sheets of a4, then all the nitty gritty for the people that need a 5 step description of how to roll a dice in an appendix. Edited Monday at 04:42 PM by Xenith Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted Monday at 04:44 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:44 PM I was scratching my head all day after watching the video GW put out on "Building a Legion" where it gets mentioned you can make an army of all jetbikes but I couldn't find anything in the shared unit leaks that supported it. So I checked the White Scars and finally found it. Spoiler So at least someone gets their bike command. Still not happy I can't build a Jadhek Clan army for Night Lords, but I'm looking at ways I can actually make the trait work and it feels like the rules push me to spam flamers and grav to force panic and pinning. Still rolling that around in my head, but I have to say I'm disappointed that Night Lords were given an affinity for volkite but they don't seem to know what to do with it beyond the Contekar. Spoiler Like seriously, Night Lords got a favortism for volkite all the way back in Massacre and two editions later they still don't do anything with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted Monday at 04:50 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:50 PM What am I missing with the Golden Keshig? They’re not a command unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted Monday at 05:00 PM Share Posted Monday at 05:00 PM 8 minutes ago, Fire Golem said: What am I missing with the Golden Keshig? They’re not a command unit. Me forgetting they're catching they're not a command unit because I'm an idiot apparently. So yeah, sorry White Scars, not even you can make an all Jetbike army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameBeard Posted Monday at 07:12 PM Share Posted Monday at 07:12 PM So we’re past 150 pages on this thread. For context, the “30k Hobby Chat” thread which has been going since before 2nd edition launched is not much more than 160 pages. My conclusion: collecting GW miniatures and complaining about GW rules are two separate hobbies. It’s quite possible to enjoy both, but some prefer one over the other. With this in mind, I’m going to get some of the new mk ii marines and make destroyers and melee veterans without jump-packs. Take that, James Workshop! 1ncarnadine, Mechanicus Tech-Support, lokkorex and 18 others 5 11 2 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sutek Posted Monday at 07:17 PM Share Posted Monday at 07:17 PM 3 minutes ago, LameBeard said: With this in mind, I’m going to get some of the new mk ii marines and make destroyers and melee veterans without jump-packs. Take that, James Workshop! I really want to buy more Destroyers but I already have 30 and I don't think I can justify that purchase. I do love Mark ii that being said. LameBeard 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted Monday at 07:17 PM Share Posted Monday at 07:17 PM 2 hours ago, BitsHammer said: Me forgetting they're catching they're not a command unit because I'm an idiot apparently. So yeah, sorry White Scars, not even you can make an all Jetbike army. There are separate profiles for Power Armour, Terminator, and Saturnine Terminator Praetors in the Libers, so I think it stands to reason that there are Jetbike and Outrider Praetors in the Legacies PDF. And if not, then fair enough, we can all riot. I'm being patient, but that would definitely be fair cause for pitchforks in my eyes. It's very frustrating how much hinges on that document at this point. And whichever corporate window-licking mouth-breather made the decision that the only rules that can be published are for existing models definitely deserves a little surprise trip in an unmarked van either way. mrausten, LSM, Marshal Loss and 3 others 2 1 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDops Posted Monday at 08:14 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:14 PM (edited) Anyone noticed that Alpha legion could snag 4 legion specific dreadnoughts easily with their rewards of treachery? Alpharious and 4 tactical/assult units can use their prime slot to grab a Osiron or the word bearers one each. Tack on the hq, their aux detachment and a pair of min reconn squads for another 3... Dunno how effective it will be but it's a fun thought Edit: I'm expecting this to get faq'd but they do acknowledge that a detachment can get multiple bonus slots. Edited Monday at 08:17 PM by MDops Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted Monday at 08:17 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:17 PM 6 hours ago, KJB said: Anyone else feel like they've just had stroke trying to read that? It may be simply that im used to reading poorly-written software documentation/requirements, but that seems pretty clear to me? Sure, stuff like "cost" is very wordy for what could have simply been a little box at the very top of the reactions title, and there is of course the obvious mistake, but its not _that_ bad surely? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameBeard Posted Monday at 08:25 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:25 PM 1 hour ago, Brother Sutek said: I really want to buy more Destroyers but I already have 30 and I don't think I can justify that purchase. I do love Mark ii that being said. Current best price I see on eBay £21.52 for 10 including delivery. And you do love Mark ii. The only problem is finding the bolt pistols … Brother Sutek and lokkorex 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted Monday at 08:57 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:57 PM 38 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said: It may be simply that im used to reading poorly-written software documentation/requirements, but that seems pretty clear to me? Sure, stuff like "cost" is very wordy for what could have simply been a little box at the very top of the reactions title, and there is of course the obvious mistake, but its not _that_ bad surely? I think it reads like an EULA. And honestly I still think it's written like that because the dev teams are being pressured to reduce FAQs so they stop "wasting time" on patching the game instead of working on future releases. 1ncarnadine, stretch_135, LameBeard and 1 other 3 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf Posted Monday at 09:17 PM Share Posted Monday at 09:17 PM 50 minutes ago, LameBeard said: Current best price I see on eBay £21.52 for 10 including delivery. And you do love Mark ii. The only problem is finding the bolt pistols … Print them. As simple as that. skylerboodie, Aarik and MasterBlaster 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
01RTB01 Posted Monday at 10:18 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:18 PM 3 hours ago, Brother Sutek said: I really want to buy more Destroyers but I already have 30 and I don't think I can justify that purchase. I do love Mark ii that being said. They're not in the libers if you're unaware :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted Monday at 10:20 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:20 PM 1 hour ago, BitsHammer said: I think it reads like an EULA. And honestly I still think it's written like that because the dev teams are being pressured to reduce FAQs so they stop "wasting time" on patching the game instead of working on future releases. Where did you hear that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted Monday at 10:30 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:30 PM 8 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said: Where did you hear that? I didn't hear it, I said I "think" it's written that way for that reason. It's just conjecture based on the kind of nonsense I'd expect from middle managers trying to maximize profit margins so they can get a bonus. Brother Sutek, Gorgoff, Xenith and 1 other 1 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted Monday at 10:40 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:40 PM Rhinos now don't have combi-boltguns anymore but instead field two single boltguns. You can replace both if them for other weapons. Which basically comes down to a price raise of 5 points for mine because they have a MM and a combi-bolter. In addition the already risen costs. They are now 60 points for some reason instead of 35. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted Monday at 10:58 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:58 PM Rhinos going up in points makes sense though, if they're faster and you can charge out of them. If they can hit you with an armourbane weapon as well then I'd expect to pay quite a bit for them. Lord Marshal 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudley Nightshade Posted Monday at 11:32 PM Share Posted Monday at 11:32 PM (edited) 3 hours ago, Doctor Perils said: It may be simply that im used to reading poorly-written software documentation/requirements, but that seems pretty clear to me? Sure, stuff like "cost" is very wordy for what could have simply been a little box at the very top of the reactions title, and there is of course the obvious mistake, but its not _that_ bad surely? Just for kicks, I ran the following 60-word (!) sentence through the editor in Microsoft Word. Quote Once per Battle, the Reactive Player may declare the Bastion of Fire Advanced Reaction in Step 2 of the Move Sub-Phase process, if an enemy Unit ends a move within 10" and in Line of Sight of a Unit under the Reactive Player's control capable of making a Shooting Attack with at least one Weapon is has targeting that Unit. The results were: Words: 60 Sentences: 1 Flesch Reading Ease: 23.2 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 24.9 ... Grade 24.9 However, Word insists that it needs at least 100 words to get a real sense of the writing, so I continued to the end of the "Cost" section. Words: 118 Sentences: 3 Words per Sentence: 39.3 Flesch Reading Ease: 42.8 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 17.0 In a Kindergarten through Grade 12 system (K-12), the rules are written at a grade 17 level. I guess that's all of one's public schooling plus five years of post-secondary? Edited Monday at 11:43 PM by Dudley Nightshade lokkorex, skylerboodie, LameBeard and 1 other 1 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sutek Posted Monday at 11:48 PM Share Posted Monday at 11:48 PM 3 hours ago, LameBeard said: Current best price I see on eBay £21.52 for 10 including delivery. And you do love Mark ii. The only problem is finding the bolt pistols … Oh I have pistols sourced. If I was really crazy I'd use some of my 2nd edition 40k ones. I however am not so crazy... at the moment. lokkorex and LameBeard 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitsHammer Posted yesterday at 12:08 AM Share Posted yesterday at 12:08 AM 34 minutes ago, Dudley Nightshade said: Just for kicks, I ran the following 60-word (!) sentence through the editor in Microsoft Word. The results were: Words: 60 Sentences: 1 Flesch Reading Ease: 23.2 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 24.9 ... Grade 24.9 However, Word insists that it needs at least 100 words to get a real sense of the writing, so I continued to the end of the "Cost" section. Words: 118 Sentences: 3 Words per Sentence: 39.3 Flesch Reading Ease: 42.8 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level: 17.0 In a Kindergarten through Grade 12 system (K-12), the rules are written at a grade 17 level. I guess that's all of one's public schooling plus five years of post-secondary? Just in time for GW to launch a college course then. I'm pretty sure it tags so high because it's literally technical writing which is some of the worst stuff to read. LameBeard 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted yesterday at 12:12 AM Share Posted yesterday at 12:12 AM I have several degrees and professional certifications and the only thing this writing reminds me of is legislation. Iron Father Ferrum, Dudley Nightshade, SalamandersBro and 5 others 1 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/385821-new-edition-or-just-horus-hearsay/page/151/#findComment-6121777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now