Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[TheTrans]

Ok, to everyone saying 'they always said there would be legacies'. Yes they did, I think the point of contention for people now is was Legacies always going to have power fist tattaros etc... or have GW went 'oh :cuss:... pre orders are down and we can feel the internet rage even in here, get then internet  to start hocking together unit profiles!!".

 

Will be interesting to check dates on the PDF when it drops, but while.l some people will white-knight for GW and say the Legacy Document was always going to be exhaustive... I'd be inclined to think many of the units and wargear are a knee-jerk as they may have felt it in their bottom line. 

[Captain Idaho]

Now, if they just "Legacy" the Legion rules, 3.0 will be set 

[Matcap86]

7 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

Ok, to everyone saying 'they always said there would be legacies'. Yes they did, I think the point of contention for people now is was Legacies always going to have power fist tattaros etc... or have GW went 'oh :cuss:... pre orders are down and we can feel the internet rage even in here, get then internet  to start hocking together unit profiles!!".

 

Will be interesting to check dates on the PDF when it drops, but while.l some people will white-knight for GW and say the Legacy Document was always going to be exhaustive... I'd be inclined to think many of the units and wargear are a knee-jerk as they may have felt it in their bottom line. 

 

I just don't think GW is capable of moving that fast. 

 

Also not really conducive to a proper discussion to call people who don't agree with you "white knighting for GW". They could also just... Not agree with you.

[TheTrans]

Mate you'll find the people now preening over the 'always was gonna have these rules' are the ones every step of the way saying 'just wait, they know what they are doing, we dont have the full picture. This images are a hoax'. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I fall in the near-anti modern GW party, so I'm a salty bastard, but there are also the people that spruik GW doing no wrong and for whatever reason believe their corporate overlords do no wrong and will always buy, buy, buy! Then there is the broad middle ground that is happy having a discussion from many angles. 

 

I was not referring to the reasonable middle as white knights, they are very welcome to have differing opinions to me mate. 

29 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Now, if they just "Legacy" the Legion rules, 3.0 will be set 

Hey mate, they'll get fixed in the DLCs right? Before 4.0 drops right?

[Captain Idaho]

52 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

Hey mate, they'll get fixed in the DLCs right? Before 4.0 drops right?

 

I want to laugh but I feel I'll just cry if I try, because that's exactly what will happen right!

[Brofist]

What a continual source of disappointment and entertainment this launch has been. From being talked down to by paid reviewers (SN, Goonhammer, etc), to the ongoing community :cuss:storm, to today's damage control.

 

I'm glad they did the best thing possible, which was to give us a list of all the things, but its just a warcom article. You know, the guys who lied to us just last week. I expect all the wargear options to be gone in those .pdf units and for the balance for the vast majority of them to be totally wack. I hope not, but that's what we got in 2.0. We're also still on the three year treadmill and the core rules are still divisive. Announcing a list of things they're planning to patch in after the actual release doesn't mean anything until it happens and we actually see it. Don't trust anything until that .pdf is in your hands and they actually deliver it at a level of quality that lets you use the units inside of it.

Edited Thursday at 01:20 AM by Brofist

[Dudley Nightshade]

(Aside: I get that the rules change when one chooses to become a public person, but we have influencers and Goon Hammer writers on the B&C, so I feel a bit funny about some of the disparagement aimed their way. From what I can see, they tend to be positive contributors here.

 

The type of behaviour I'm talking about is something I have been guilty of too, so this isn't aimed at any one person, and I say it with empathy. Everyone that finds their way here has a good measure of passion for some aspect of the hobby. That passion leads us all to sometimes say things that we might not say if we cared less. 
 

This awesome community could be even better if we could, as Bill and Ted would say, be excellent to each other.  A lot of the disagreements in this massive topic have been really civil. Just not sure why there is a small subsection of the group that does not always get the same respect.)

[Castellan Wulfrik]

My problem is with the direction, I just have no enthusiasm to start a new army. My previous plans for Jadhek Clan Lords and mechanised shrapnel are gone with the wind. I’ve already decided I’ll skip this edition, the rules just don’t appeal to me and a pdf won’t fix that. It’s three years now, it’s not forever, the problem is that I can’t trust GW with continuing to support an army I build beyond the edition it exists in. I like customising my units and kitbashing, that’s clearly marked for death. I like building odd niche lists with RoW, that’s out. There’s really nothing left for me in the future of the game. I can continue to play previous editions with my existing collection but why would I continue to expand? I’m not going to buy an army based on ‘legacy’ rules. 

[BitsHammer]

5 hours ago, Nephaston said:

"Power Weapon" usually only means swords, axes, mauls, spears(?), while power fists and chain fists are usually kept separate. They are however found on the legion terminator melee weapons list.

 

As far as I remember Tartaros at least was intended as a full replacement for power armour, so there at least not having the slowest of melee options for broad use does make some sense. Combi-weapon and fists remains iconic however.

A Cataphractii squad with a Lighting Claw and Volkite feels very Night Lords so at least those are feeling pretty on brand for me.

[crimsondave]

4 hours ago, Northern Walker said:

You sweet summer child, oh for the optimism of hobby youth. I'm afraid I'm hardened by 26 (now I feel old) years of being annoyed by all manner of GW rules decisions.

32 here if it makes you feel any younger.  It’s definitely nothing new.  Those new Mk 2 marines are fire though.

[Hfran Morkai]

As someone whose favourite Mark of Terminator Armour is the Tartaros, little disappointed.

 

I get they'll still have the options in the Legacy PDF but I was excited to see upscaled Tartaros with a full array of weapons (Power Fists, Combis, Thunder Hammers etc), even if they were sold as upgrade kits (still possible down the line I suppose).

 

I haven't even really hobbied since 2.0 because I was hoping for rescaled MkIV and Tartaros as they're my favourites and what I want the bulk of my stuff to be.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:57 AM by Hfran Morkai

[BitsHammer]

9 minutes ago, Hfran Morkai said:

As someone whose favourite Mark of Terminator Armour is the Tartaros, little disappointed.

 

I get they'll still have the options in the Legacy PDF but I was excited to see upscaled Tartaros with a full array of weapons (Power Fists, Combis, Thunder Hammers etc), even if they were sold as upgrade kits (still possible down the line I suppose).

 

I haven't even really hobbied since 2.0 because I was hoping for rescaled MkIV and Tartaros as they're my favourites and what I want the bulk of my stuff to be.

 

 

I fully get you. I think the intent is that Tartaros is going to be the fast assault armor, while Cataphractii is the heavy assault armor which fits the lore and the style of the armour, but I also understand that sometimes we just want to run what we like and not be locked out of options.

 

I've been wanting MkV in plastic, but the new MkII has scratched an itch I didn't know I had so I'm definitely taking some of those, though I'm more than happy to use MkVI assault marines, though I may wait to see if we get plastic Night Raptors in the near future before kitbashing my own from MkVI, upgrade bits and chainglaives.

[Corswain]

Well, I caved and ordered Saturnine but no Libers. I'm just going to build a 2.0 list.

I tend to have loads of consuls in my armies anyway so if I ever decide to shift to 3.0 I'm sure I can make it work.

[Fire Golem]

6 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Disagree on that one, the 40k termies tower over primaris which are quite a bit bigger than HH marines. I feel they would be far too big to represent a marine in heavier armour. Saturnine (barely) gets away with their size with them being more like mini dreadnaughts.

Im not sure I share your definition of ‘tower over’. They’re also not that far off the height of a MkVI at the head, they’re mostly just a lot bulkier. 
 

Either way, even if the new heresy Termis don’t go as big as the Indomitus, they should definitely be a bit bigger to be more in line with the newer plastic marines.

[BitsHammer]

Yeah, I suspect the 30k Terminators will be in scale with the 30k Astartes which will make them shorter to the eye than the Primaris Terminators.

 

Or GW will just be really funny and make them all Saturnine sized.

[Indy Techwisp]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

Yeah, I suspect the 30k Terminators will be in scale with the 30k Astartes which will make them shorter to the eye than the Primaris Terminators.

 

Or GW will just be really funny and make them all Saturnine sized.

 

Considering what mini range the 30k Marines are roughly scaled to, expect any new 30k Terminators to look about the same height as the CSM Terminators rather than the LSM Terminators.

[CL_Mission]

Even if it's not exact I'd hope the new 30k Terminators are at least close to the new Indomitus in size, it would be nice to include some in a Terminator heavy 40k collection to mix things up and add some variety.

[apologist]

4 minutes ago, CL_Mission said:

Even if it's not exact I'd hope the new 30k Terminators are at least close to the new Indomitus in size, it would be nice to include some in a Terminator heavy 40k collection to mix things up and add some variety.

I agree with the sentiment (I like all my toy soldiers to tally up scale-wise!), but I think there's a conscious effort to differentiate 30k and 40k; and minimise crossover. I would expect any resized Cataphractii and Tartaros to be only incrementally larger, and certainly no larger than the more recent character series figures in Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

 

The Imperial Fist Praetor in Tartaros plate is notable for being a slightly smaller one that quickly replaced a very large figure.

 

Anyone have some of the more recent resin Terminators to compare with the plastics?

[Matcap86]

4 hours ago, Fire Golem said:

Im not sure I share your definition of ‘tower over’. They’re also not that far off the height of a MkVI at the head, they’re mostly just a lot bulkier. 
 

Either way, even if the new heresy Termis don’t go as big as the Indomitus, they should definitely be a bit bigger to be more in line with the newer plastic marines.

 

There we get into subjectivity, which is all good. The terminator in that comparison feels like it's in a different scale to the HH marine on the left to me. But I'm (maybe overly) nitpicky on things like that. 

 

A bit bigger than the current ones would be grand.

Edited Thursday at 08:51 AM by Matcap86

[sarabando]

Just now, Matcap86 said:

 

There we get into subjectivity, which is all good. The terminator in that comparison feels like it's in a different scale to the marine on the left to me. But I'm (maybe overly) nitpicky on things like that. 

ive just built some for my night lords and they feel massive next to anything else in the army theres a really noticeable difference. 

[Antarius]

12 hours ago, Redcomet said:

This.

 

Peoples ridiculous need to know everything weeks ahead of the games release and the community’s knee jerk response to everything the company does. 
 

There is an almost glee and a desire to have the absolute worst reactions to everything they do.

 

If the edition is DOA, which it won’t be, then it the community has itself partly to blame. 
 

 

Yes and no. It's a known fact at this point that there'll be a lot of complaining, no matter what GW does or doesn't do when a new edition rolls around. Generally speaking, some of it will be justified and some of it won't - and the relative proportions of both types will vary from game to game and edition to edition.

In this particular case, the people telling themselves that the legacies pdf is coming out as a response to their righteous net-rage are, bluntly put, kidding themselves - we knew the pdf was coming before the leaks and the rage, because GW themselves had told us so.
Is it possible that GW has noticed and added in some option they'd forgotten about because someone pointed it out on the internet and they noticed it that way? Yeah, I guess so. Is it likely? I'm not sure I'd go that far, but who knows?
In the same vein, is it possible that GW has been intimidated into restoring a bunch of units/options that they'd deliberately chosen to squat? Well, everything is possible, I suppose, but I really think it's way off base and a massive overestimation of the impact of internet raging to believe that it's actually the case.
Some of the community has definitely gone way OTT in their whinging and teeth-gnashing about this, no question about it.

Otoh, I think most of the more "grounded" complaints have been about the way the rules are actually written and I think that criticism has, broadly speaking, been spot on. The community can hardly be blamed for that part.

Edited Thursday at 08:50 AM by Antarius

[sarabando]

"Peoples ridiculous need to know everything weeks ahead of the games release "   

 

yeah well some of us cant just afford to drop nearly 200 quid on a new release without thinking. We like informed purchases. 

[Matcap86]

59 minutes ago, sarabando said:

"Peoples ridiculous need to know everything weeks ahead of the games release "   

 

yeah well some of us cant just afford to drop nearly 200 quid on a new release without thinking. We like informed purchases. 

 

To be fair, the box set and all other stuff will be available for years to come. No need to buy into it before you've got all the info. 

[Brother Sutek]

2 hours ago, sarabando said:

ive just built some for my night lords and they feel massive next to anything else in the army theres a really noticeable difference. 

That's like the new plastic tactical marines next to my old school metal marines. I bought a bunch of metal plague marines around 3.5, I think, and while they are fantastic models they are noticeable in how much shorter they are. 80% of the army is old models so it's fine overall but I just added 20+ tactical marines and they look like basketball marines they are so big.

[crimsondave]

6 hours ago, Fire Golem said:

Im not sure I share your definition of ‘tower over’. They’re also not that far off the height of a MkVI at the head, they’re mostly just a lot bulkier. 
 

Either way, even if the new heresy Termis don’t go as big as the Indomitus, they should definitely be a bit bigger to be more in line with the newer plastic marines.

I built 2 squads of Mk 6 tactical marines for 40K because I wanted a few firstborn and thought they scaled better than the 40K tacticals.  Plus I like beakies.