Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Robbienw]

Its got to be the box composition if its not selling as well as expected.  Its just not as appealing as the Age of Darkness box was.  The Arkanae platform is boring.  The saturnine terminators are very marmite in terms of look, and also have a rare and unusual vibe, so most collectors wont want multiples.  Similar case with the Dreadnought.

 

Replace the Arkanae platform with a new land speeder kit, the saturnines with new cataphractii and the dreadnaught with a new vehicle of some sort (say one of the missing sicaran variants, or even something like a plastic arquitor) and it would be a much more desirable set.

Edited yesterday at 09:08 AM by Robbienw

[LameBeard]

Maybe - but people were complaining last time about old and undersized cataphractii, Spartan being a brick they wouldn’t bring in smaller, start-up games and the praetors being ridiculously huge and mis-proportioned.

 

I think one thing AoD had going for it was that the new mk vi were a call back to RTB01, a very widely loved kit. Saturnine terminators might be trying to do the same, but the originals were nowhere near as common as RTB01.

Edited yesterday at 09:37 AM by LameBeard
Correcting autocorrect

[Astartes Consul]

39 minutes ago, LameBeard said:

I have no particular interest in the rules or about half the models. But 35% off a box that already includes a bulk discount does look too good to pass up. I think my problem is do I have the physical space in my house?

 

Order multiple boxes, use them as furniture. 

[Rusted Boltgun]

1 minute ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

Order multiple boxes, use them as furniture. 

 

Great idea but has a low PAF (Partner Acceptability Factor).

 

I am at the same level of box saturation and decided to give myself a break from the next Kill Team season partly because of it. I have celebrated by ordering the Saturnine box at 35% off, another excuse being that Junior Boltgun loves the look of the Saturnine dread and the terminators - no nostalgia factor for him!

 

The rules had put me off getting 3.0. I like a 'boxed game' that doesn't need updates, balance patches, FAQs, whatever you call them and the leaks and subsequent book errors had punctured the hype balloon. 

 

The discount has swung me back in, I like the models, I like building army lists, I like the setting. I'll probably never get to play the game so I shouldn't really care too much about the rules!

[Wibbling]

As others have said, the box is a bit Marmite. There are also huge bills to pay for car service, water has gone up 50% and other taxes also soared. There's not enough in the box to make me want to buy it 'by default'. Reading the rules leaks has also been disappointing. 

 

I think the Saturnine terminators are daft. They're not mentioned in the Heresy series, they weren't in the Black Books or 2nd, now they're the poster boys on both Liber Astartes/Hereticus covers. I don't find the turret interesting and again, that's had no mention in fluff. They could so easily have updated the book with FAQs and included a couple of rhinos, predators/vindicator and instead of the Saturnine stuff produced the landspeeders/bikes/[insert product line] people are waiting for. But, they wanted an 'iconic' hook. 

 

The discounting is interesting, especially at this early stage. It does imply sales are lower than expected. I have never seen Workshop (as it'll have to be them) offer a discount - ever. 

 

I didn't buy it not because I want to spite Workshop but because the product doesn't appeal. I hope others really enjoy it. 

 

 

[Lautrec the Embraced]

1 hour ago, Robbienw said:

Replace the Arkanae platform with a new land speeder kit, the saturnines with new cataphractii and the dreadnaught with a new vehicle of some sort (say one of the missing sicaran variants, or even something like a plastic arquitor) and it would be a much more desirable set.

Agree, I at least have zero interest in the goofy saturnines, super tarantula and a new Primaris dreadnought. I think bikes, javelins, sabre tanks or sicarian variants would be much more welcomed by many people. 

But I suppose these don't fit the theme they wanted, with new releases being rather about heavy firepower, and not mobility (saturnines, tarantulas, rapiers etc) ... so, how about some artillery tanks or redesign of good ol' castraferrum  (poor guy is probably shorter than a saturnine terminator now)

Edited yesterday at 10:18 AM by Lautrec the Embraced

[Robbienw]

The castaferrum redesign is the key to unlocking massive profits!

[roryokane]

2 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

The castaferrum redesign is the key to unlocking massive profits!

Not even a total redesign - a re-boxing with a weapons sprue!
GIVE US CASTRAFERRUM DREADS WITH VOLKITE CALIVERS AND SIEGE HAMMERS.

[Captain Idaho]

Been thinking... I quite like the main rules, think they're not too bad though the 4 turns, statuses and difficulty for melee hurts a bit.

 

However, I can't buy into this entire edition as I don't like the army rules. They just suck bad and that includes unit specific rules.

 

If GW releases a "Legacies" PDF of faction rules for 3.0, with confirmation they will expand and replace the army rules per faction with the new Arcane Journals model they're going for, with explanation the Liber rules are basic get you by rules, I'd then buy in.

 

I'm not paying for Chaos Space Marines 4.0 which is essentially what the HH rules are.

[roryokane]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

Been thinking... I quite like the main rules, think they're not too bad though the 4 turns, statuses and difficulty for melee hurts a bit.

 

However, I can't buy into this entire edition as I don't like the army rules. They just suck bad and that includes unit specific rules.

 

If GW releases a "Legacies" PDF of faction rules for 3.0, with confirmation they will expand and replace the army rules per faction with the new Arcane Journals model they're going for, with explanation the Liber rules are basic get you by rules, I'd then buy in.

 

I'm not paying for Chaos Space Marines 4.0 which is essentially what the HH rules are.

It'd have to be a cast iron guarantee, but yes, I'm with you there.

[Sky Potato]

I didn’t get the books on the initial preorder release. All the controversy put me only just on the not-purchasing side of the fence. For 35% off though, I grabbed the two Astartes Libers and the Questoris book.

 

Biggest sleeper on the Wayland site at the moment is a box of 20 Mk2 marines for £34.14. For comparison, a box of 10 intercessors is £32, so that’s an absolute steal of a price for a 20 man squad.

[LameBeard]

7 minutes ago, Sky Potato said:

 

Biggest sleeper on the Wayland site at the moment is a box of 20 Mk2 marines for £34.14. For comparison, a box of 10 intercessors is £32, so that’s an absolute steal of a price for a 20 man squad.

Except I can get 20 Mk II plus disintegrator sprue for less than that on eBay from a box splitter. What am I missing? Decals? Instructions? Nice art on the box?

[Redcomet]

Had the gun platform been a tank I think it would have been more popular 

[de Selby]

Well I bought in after all. 35% pre-order discount is crazy, Dark Sphere (for example) are not only accepting the minimal margins on new sales they are refunding the difference on existing orders, which suggests they are in full stop-loss mode.   I wonder if they are mad at other stores for 'breaking first' or if everyone accepts this was unavoidable.

 

Other people have discussed why this isn't as attractive a box as Age of Darkness. I actually mostly like the Saturnine designs, and at this price I consider the turret a free terrain feature.  The rules I can now read for myself, and I'll find out about unit/army options when the pdf comes out (!). Very confused about the future of HH but for £127 I can take a punt on it.

[skylerboodie]

Have just taken the plunge and ordered a second Saturnine box from Wayland (first was from elsewhere on initial pre-order). I'd already been considering getting a second as models-wise at 20% off it's a good deal, and at 35% now it's definitely a relative bargain, even discounting for a second rulebook etc.

 

• MKIIs are great - can't get enough line infantry
• Centurion - I collect multiple legions so two is fine
• I agree that Saturnines themselves are not my favourite Terminator armour but the Praetor has two builds, so can have both now
• the 'regular' Saturnine Terminators are due to have some legion-specific variants that I can use them towards, rather than all for one legion, and/or command squad some
• Two Saturnine dreadnoughts? they've already announced the forthcoming Ophion configuration and it may not be the last; should be available as a separate sprue, like Deredeos & Contemptors
• Araknae Quad Accelerator Platform - yeah I too would've preferred tanks if duplicates but don't hate them

Worst comes to the worst, if I haven't built it in 3+ years or need to move on for financial reasons in the future, it's going to retain its value once they've moved on to 4th edition so I feel like it's a no-risk purchase for time being, other than initial outlay. (I would love to have them built and painted by end of 3rd of course, but my existing pile of potential only changes size in one direction!)

[lokkorex]

I might be tempted to get two boxes eventually and give the second rulebook to my best mate, just to see his face trying to make sense of some of the rules, as well as what the new deep strike rules did to his dreams of a Raven Guard "Infiltrate-And-Alpha-Strike" force.

[firestorm40k]

If it was anything other than the Saturnine armour, I'd have ordered the launch box. GW really, really over-estimated the appeal of the Saturnine stuff 

 

When there are so many units that Heresy players want to see done in plastic, maybe - just maybe - you should listen to your customers, before going down whatever relatively obscure rabbit-hole the design studio decides to follow..? 

[W.A.Rorie]

 Recon Marines, Plastic Javelin, Despoilers or even breachers, all would been nice to have says the Raven guard player in me.  But with Saturnine I am falling into the trap of New Army since this does not fit my current army....and it is seriously my fault.

[Craig]

Oh no, I tripped and added it to my Dark Sphere basket, then tripped again and entered my credit card details. I might have to paint up some 40k iron warriors after all.

[Sky Potato]

1 hour ago, LameBeard said:

Except I can get 20 Mk II plus disintegrator sprue for less than that on eBay from a box splitter. What am I missing? Decals? Instructions? Nice art on the box?

I mean, yeah, you can find anything cheaper if you buy it second hand…

 

The cheapest 10-man sprue on eBay at the moment is £15. Buy two of those and you get a combined shipping rate of £3.71. That does not include the disintegrator sprue either.

 

So, you’re saving 50p buying second-hand, with no possibility to exchange a damaged sprue, with no decals or instructions.

 

Surely the most noteworthy thing here is that a pre-order box is being discounted so heavily it’s basically the same price as  a box splitter on eBay.

[Pacific81]

3 hours ago, Wibbling said:

 

I think the Saturnine terminators are daft. They're not mentioned in the Heresy series, they weren't in the Black Books or 2nd, now they're the poster boys on both Liber Astartes/Hereticus covers. I don't find the turret interesting and again, that's had no mention in fluff. They could so easily have updated the book with FAQs and included a couple of rhinos, predators/vindicator and instead of the Saturnine stuff produced the landspeeders/bikes/[insert product line] people are waiting for. But, they wanted an 'iconic' hook. 

 

 

 

That's an interesting observation about the Saturnine armour, mk2 etc.

It might have been more interesting to leave HH2.0 well alone and release this as a 'Great Crusade' standalone game, as the old HH boxes used to be?

 

All of the units are better suited to that era than dropzone massacre. Could have had some alien faction included as antagonists perhaps re. the Great Crusade battles? 

[Captain Idaho]

Oh totally thought the HH should be a baseline start with expansions into other "historical" eras such as Crusade forces, Scouring and who knows maybe even up to M40.

 

Especially with the Scouring book series.

[01RTB01]

Having inadvertently ended up with a knight army plus impending chaos dwarfs I've not bothered with the box yet. I'd also like some breachers when they drop and funds aren't limitless.

 

Ironically for me it's the mkii and the platform I've no interest in. The fact it's going to be a permanent feature on shelves added to the lukewarm local reception means I've no rush to buy at the moment. I also managed to paint 8000 points last edition so don't "need" new heresy minis. 

[Sky Potato]

13 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

 

That's an interesting observation about the Saturnine armour, mk2 etc.

It might have been more interesting to leave HH2.0 well alone and release this as a 'Great Crusade' standalone game, as the old HH boxes used to be?

 

All of the units are better suited to that era than dropzone massacre. Could have had some alien faction included as antagonists perhaps re. the Great Crusade battles? 

I would love rules for Orks and Eldar as Great Crusade opposition.

 

 

[Mr Farson]

This edition should have been a 2.5

 

Re release all the core books with erratas in and adjustments as needed ( legion rules etc) like the 7.5 red books and rulebook. The current rules are too big a departure for me to want to play them compared to their 3rd ed bases.

 

It doesn't feel like a grog game anymore, the journal releases are absolutely fine and would've done well in a relaunched 2.0