Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Trokair]

12 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Saturnine terms are in boxes of 4...

 

Unit that's 3-6. I don't know the sprue layout but this makes no sense to me.

 

Use spare parts from the Preator to turn the 4th Saturnine Terminator into another HQ.

Edited 13 hours ago by Trokair

[Robbienw]

37 minutes ago, Wibbling said:

Seeing the pre-orders indicates it really hasn't sold well. If individual components are being broken down to sell separately - given that the whole box can be bought at a significant discount either this was always planned (but odd to be so soon after the collective release) or a genuine problem in that they printed a lot more than have sold. 

 

I could be completely wrong, but it is a bit odd.

Sounds very conspiratorial.

 

No way could they break down that many boxes and rebox them in just 2-3weeks, they’d have to recall loads of boxes that have gone out to other countries, then send them out again.

 

They plan their release schedule out far ahead.

 

Not plausible.

[01RTB01]

14 minutes ago, Trokair said:

 

Use spare parts from the Preator to turn the 4th Saturnine Terminator into another HQ.

I don't have a praetor ;) 

 

Bit presumptuous I've got the box lol. If/ when I do grab saturnine, I wouldn't have more than 6 terminators.

 

As an aside, knowing the price of the individual kits will help determine how good a value the box is.

[Matcap86]

36 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Saturnine terms are in boxes of 4...

 

Unit that's 3-6. I don't know the sprue layout but this makes no sense to me.

 

It's 2 per sprue.

[01RTB01]

1 minute ago, Matcap86 said:

 

It's 2 per sprue.

That makes more sense :) thank you.

[BitsHammer]

26 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Sounds very conspiratorial.

 

No way could they break down that many boxes and rebox them in just 2-3weeks, they’d have to recall loads of boxes that have gone out to other countries, then send them out again.

 

They plan their release schedule out far ahead.

 

Not plausible.

Plus that would require them to have extra packing sitting around just in case so they could do that which isn't realistic.

[Mostwanted]

1 hour ago, Wibbling said:

Seeing the pre-orders indicates it really hasn't sold well. If individual components are being broken down to sell separately - given that the whole box can be bought at a significant discount either this was always planned (but odd to be so soon after the collective release) or a genuine problem in that they printed a lot more than have sold. 

 

I could be completely wrong, but it is a bit odd.

They definitely aren't breaking down the boxes to sell the contents separately. This box set is going to be around for this edition, so it's going to be available for probably 3 years the way the cycle is going. Even if it is selling slower than they expected, they still need stock available for that duration.

 

The release schedule is planned well in advance and the individual units would have been packaged well before now.

[Lord Marshal]

2 hours ago, Wibbling said:

Seeing the pre-orders indicates it really hasn't sold well. If individual components are being broken down to sell separately - given that the whole box can be bought at a significant discount either this was always planned (but odd to be so soon after the collective release) or a genuine problem in that they printed a lot more than have sold. 

 

I could be completely wrong, but it is a bit odd.

 

Heresy has always been quick to release big box contents separately.

 

The Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum standalones were only a week after their FOMO box, if I recall correctly - similarly with the Mechanicum Assault Group.

 

The Age of Darkness contents also didn't remain exclusive for long, though I don't remember how long exactly it was for those - they may even have been Day 1'ers.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[Marshal Mittens]

I am seeing 10 MK II for $25 on ebay. I think a lot of people like MKII but have all the bolter pigs they need. I like the Saturnine, but its a bit marmite, and while the gun platform looks neat it seems more like terrain. 

 

Getting a Spartan and a good multipart contemptor and all those marines in the 2.0 box set was awesome. The mid 2.0 MK III with a new Dorito Dread and land raider was also awesome. 

 

Now most people have 90+ marine bodies, several dreads, and leaders for their armies. If you like this kit, it's a fun buy, but its not better or different than what came before. 

 

The last two big boxes made a lot of sense to buy several of at the time, and i know I bought a few of each, but this box has less of that draw. And while heresy isn't a WAAC type game, in theory, nothing in the box is very good. The dread is, with inversion beamers, but the rest is meh. 

 

I think it will be a bit of a dominion release. Which isn't horrid. 

 

I think if the MK II had options to be Dispoilers in the box it would have sold much better as well. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Marshal Mittens

[Nephaston]

4 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

I don't have a praetor ;) 

 

Bit presumptuous I've got the box lol. If/ when I do grab saturnine, I wouldn't have more than 6 terminators.

 

As an aside, knowing the price of the individual kits will help determine how good a value the box is.

4 terminators just means you can use one of them as a Centurion, just need to buy the 2nd journal for the rules since the libers only have bog-standard centurions.

 

Still a bit odd, regardless of the way one cuts it.

[Brother Tyler]

Okay, this is a thing and it's out in the wild now, so it's time to move this over the game's forum.

[Mr Farson]

6 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

Been thinking about the new detachment system and I think I am starting to get the intent.

 

So the old FOC basically gave us 6 unit types: HQ, Elite, Troop, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, Lord of War. 2.0 tried to expand that by adding the Heavy keyword to create differences between units in those slots and better flavoring the armies.

 

The new one moved away from that to give us far more unit types to help show the difference between something like a bike squad versus a Jetbike even though both were Fast Attack slots. But trying to make an FOC chart that restricts slots and characters adjusting those slots becomes a very clunky mess so they gave us detachments. 

 

This allows them to tax us by adding characters so we don't just spam the strongest slots, while allowing them to add restrictions to units that should be less common such as Dreadnoughts.

 

Obviously it's not perfect, but I think I get it now.

 

 

The problem is the names they've given the detachments and unit types are instantly forgettable along with the symbols being absolute ass.

 

If they had done variants of the pre existing force org symbols for new categories it would've been easier to parse.

 

The real crime in the detachment system is that the detachments don't do any thing beyond limit what you could take, the iron fire detachment allows you to take arquitors and nothing else the detachment should give some benefit to the arquitors within 

 

I don't want to say formations but we now have all the downsides of formations with none of the benefit 

[BitsHammer]

7 minutes ago, Mr Farson said:

 

 

The problem is the names they've given the detachments and unit types are instantly forgettable along with the symbols being absolute ass.

 

If they had done variants of the pre existing force org symbols for new categories it would've been easier to parse.

 

The real crime in the detachment system is that the detachments don't do any thing beyond limit what you could take, the iron fire detachment allows you to take arquitors and nothing else the detachment should give some benefit to the arquitors within 

 

I don't want to say formations but we now have all the downsides of formations with none of the benefit 

Like I said: it's not perfect. I just think I can see what they are trying to do and I don't hate it, but symbols would have been better than silhouettes for sure.

[TheTrans]

I honestly feel the detachment system is just what they introduced with Age of Sigmar, they've just tried to keep it a bit more complicated so it seemed 'crunchier'.

I don't care how much make up we put on it, its lost the feels and vibes of the old Rites of War, which I think more importantly than giving you extra access to stuff, or changing around force org location, gave you limitations as well which where great to try and work around.

Similar to the 1.0-2.0 Legion Trait moves. 1.0 had some postives and 'negatives' associated with the Legion Astartes (X) traits. In 2.0 it was just a flat benefit and now in 3.0..well almost doesn't exist haha. 

While some may enjoy the streamlining, and power to them if they do, It's just a shame that 30k has shimmied so far away from 1.0 'crunchiness' and grey area army making, well for me any way. 

We've got Macca working on his 'circle' edition, and while he and I often butt heads, he does love Heresy and I think the 'circle' community edition will be decent, but I fear how devisive he is will scuttle any true chance it has at getting off the ground as a reasonable combo of 1.0 and 2.0. 

 

[BitsHammer]

Rites of War and Legion traits could have been far more than we got regardless of the detachment system.

 

Just look at the Primarchs and how they give a bonus for taking specific things.

 

The detachment system isn't why they cut those rules back. Or at least not the sole reason. I suspect "balance" and "streamlining" were words used.

 

It's clear that GW's current design philosophy is more in line with adult board games than the rpg like systems of older 40k.

 

This isn't automatically a bad thing as even more streamlined 30k is far crunchier than 40k. It's just a different approach to design with different goals. One of which seems to be to make the game faster overall perhaps to make it easier to get games in more often as they have smaller time commitments.

 

But that's just a guess since I can't pick their brains.