Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Scribe]

42 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

Mark II Assault Marines! With plastic chainaxes!

 

 

And the long awaited...

 

 

Oh god...

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

From one of the warcoms https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m11ujimg/saturnine-your-questions-on-the-new-edition-of-horus-heresy-answered/:

 

Quote

The Warhammer Design Studio have been pretty happy with where the game has been for the last few years

 

Lol

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

MK II very nice, very. I can't wait to get my hands on those assault marines. Rapiers extra cute, even if I am not completely sold on the crews. I warmed up a bit to the dreadnaught, although the puldrons still irk me. I hope it will get more weapons options in the stand alone release. Never've been a Fellblade fan, more of a Fellglaive fan, but still Falchion is the real thing so that part was a bit whatever for me.

I don't like desing language of new tarantulas and the quad cannon. The quad gun re-uses Fire Raptor turret and for some reason I don't think that it's proper to transfer a part of an aircraft to an armoured emplacement. The tarantulas copy Sicaran turret front which should be unique to Sicaran due to how sophisticated its tracking system is - I hope that they don't bastardize it in the lore by giving it ot Tarantulas.

Edited May 23 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[arnesh88]

Things I like: the models, keeping old stats, new stats look to mostly just help partition out different tests, Initiative Modifier, Disintigrator weapons likely limited to Veterans (I was worried about HSS and TSS taking them, which would make it weirdly common), Saturnine lore

Things I'm nervous about: Damage Characteristic, Army Building rules, Challenges (in that order).

Damage Characteristic: This probably is my biggest concern. No idea how FNP/Instant Death/other rules work alongside this (or even exist), vehicles, etc. Too many unknowns. Plus side, likely no more Brutal(x).

 

Army Building: Second biggest concern. There's a decent amount of flexibility with Rites of War. I understand the desire for players to be able to build armies they envision, and I'm behind that. I'm worried that it can lead to heavy-spam armies. I know some exist, but I don't encounter them all that much. Wait and see for me. I do like that there are bonuses for those that want to build towards more traditional armies, but those bonuses can either swing too heavily in favor of that playstyle, or not be enough to essentially make it not worth it and feel punishing for players that do want that build.

Challenges: least concern, I just think it's unnecessary complication. Enough goes on in melee. But this is more of a shoulder-shrug and can take it or leave it.

 

Admittedly, my bias is that I liked 2nd edition more than 1st edition, games were more fun and closer where 1st edition was much more one sided matches. So my pessimism is that it strays too much from the feel of the game from 2nd edition. Also also, my main is Salamanders, and I'm hoping for enough of a rework to their legion to feel more unique and not have a chunk of my rules ignored or not matter based on what my opponent's army composition is.

Edited May 23 by arnesh88

[Scribe]

Khorne above, I am feeling the urge to drop tons of cash on these models. Stunning. The pull of nostalgia back to when me and boys were throwing down when HH was released..

 

Great stuff.

[son of the forest]

Really like the power armour praetors helmet!

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

I will watch a battle report of HH 3.0 on Youtube and incorporate the Status Effects rules for my custom HH 2.0 game. The same goes for any other good stuff they implement. One thing though will be sure: I won´t be spending money on new books. 

[Mogger351]

Yesterday I was 100% in on buying this. The skirmish game level granularity of stats on a game of this scale immediately screams mental load problems and games not getting past turn 2/3 due to sheer volume of "stuff".

 

My fledging mechnicum I've been building this week... all motivation gone, never mind the fact my knights would be in a 2nd book now.

[Waaagh?]

Looking at the weapons stats they're basically the same just laid out slightly different and some previous universal special rules being baked in.

 

For example the new Saturnine fist is basically:

 

S+2 AP2 Unwieldy(just now with granularity) and brutal 3.

 

And the bolt pistol is exactly the same as it currently is.

 

 

The big thing will be how widespread the multi damage is. If it's basically just a way of adding brutal into the statlines and reserved for weapons that should have it then fine. I actually really like the initiative modifier rather than flat unwieldy too. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23 by Waaagh?

[lansalt]

13 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

 The skirmish game level granularity of stats on a game of this scale immediately screams mental load problems and games not getting past turn 2/3 due to sheer volume of "stuff".

 

Agreed. And making "pinned", "suppressed" and "stunned" into 3 different unit status effects instead of 1 just says bad game design to me. Even in a skirmish game that level of granularity/semantics would be overkill.

 

3 minutes ago, Waaagh? said:

If it's basically just a way of adding brutal into the statlines and reserved for weapons that should have it then fine.

 

Also agreed. Baking in rules in stats where possible rather than having to check multiple special rules elsewhere is good game design.

 

Edited May 23 by lansalt

[Corswain]

Sadly the Saturnine are working less for me with better pictures. They are too big. 

The lore is also a bit lazy and Primaris-y for me - "well there is super armour and now there is super-duper armour."

Everything else is a win though so happy to keep on building Legions. I hope those chainaxes come seperately so I can do some World Eaters despoilers.

[Castellan Wulfrik]

18 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

 

Why would the primarchs be scaled up when saturnines are clearly a centurion-esque exo suit?

Also, despite being a character model which are intentionally being made larger than standard models he still looks like he is at least a head shorter than Vulcan if you look past the shoulders and look at his actual head. I really don't see why you can't just write it off as a particularly tall marine in Saturnine armour, it's one dude in a box of mark II that are the exact same proportions as the previous marks released. 

[Gorgoff]

1 minute ago, Waaagh? said:

Looking at the weapons stats they're basically the same just laid out slightly different and some previous universal special rules being baked in.

 

For example the new Saturnine fist is basically:

 

S+2 AP2 Unwieldy(just now with granularity) and brutal 3.

 

And the bolt pistol is exactly the same as it currently is.

 

 

The big thing will be how widespread the multi damage is. If it's basically just a way of adding brutal into the statlines and reserved for weapons that should have it then fine. I actually really like the initiative modifier rather than flat unwieldy too. 

 

 

 

 

I agree and may add that doing more damage instead of forcing more saves like brutal is the more elegant option. 

I just fear that AV of vehicles got dropped alltogether and they made them big infantry models like in 40k. 

 

My second concern is that they went back to the army building system of 7th where you could just fill your army with any units without any restrictions. That may sound like a great thing to have for themed armies and whatnot but in practise it is absolutely terrible if you not play against someone who has no clue whatsoever how to play the game. In any other instances it meant that those armies were broken as hell. 

 

 

But apart from this I am quite happy. The models look great, we get a ton of new stuff which all looks good and even the ridiculous huge Eggnators fit in very well in my Death Guard project.

 

PS: I said it before. They will introduce intelligence,  cool and the like. It was a joke but here we are. In Necromunda it works very well but we will see in 30k. The new stati will definitly interact with these.

[WARMASTER_]

1 hour ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Oooh that looks very Cataphracti

Very excited to see this kit! They’re gonna be massive 

[Imprudent Decision]

Plastic Sabre?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Mixed feelings with all of this previews. Awesome miniatures indeed, lot of resin miniatures now in plastic,some of them very desired like plastic Breachers, that's so good...but the programed obsolescence of rulebook and supplements and the constant re writing of the background worries me.

Edited May 25 by Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf

[Marshal Rohr]

2 minutes ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

Mixed feelings with all of this previews. Awesome miniatures indeed, lot of resin miniatures now in plastic,some of them very desired like plasticBreachers, that's so good...but the programed obsolescence of rulebook and supplements and the constant re writing of the background worries me.

Yes, absolute travesty they made the loyalists win at Istvaan. 

Edited May 23 by Marshal Rohr

[Halandaar]

55 minutes ago, firestorm40k said:

Great miniatures, but utterly disheartened by the new rules, and by the fact existing players are facing an approximate £100 'hobby tax' to carry on playing the game (new rules, Liber, and now tokens ). 

 

Yep, this is exactly what I feared would happen. They made a point of saying it's fundamentally the same game with a few tweaks, but those tweaks are sufficient to render every existing book obsolete so everybody is now going to have to dump £100 on a rulebook and at least one Liber.

 

For what it's worth, the models are generally great and in all likelihood I'll get the box for those anyway, so I guess I'm halfway to the book tax already 

[WARMASTER_]

They’re also smashed it with the MKII’s I think they’re a great update to the design 

[Scribe]

3 minutes ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

constant re writing of the background worries me.

 

How was this done?

[Robbienw]

That was an intense preview.  So many quality models coming, massive excitement!!!

[Waaagh?]

4 minutes ago, Gorgoff said:

I agree and may add that doing more damage instead of forcing more saves like brutal is the more elegant option. 

I just fear that AV of vehicles got dropped alltogether and they made them big infantry models like in 40k. 

 

My second concern is that they went back to the army building system of 7th where you could just fill your army with any units without any restrictions. That may sound like a great thing to have for themed armies and whatnot but in practise it is absolutely terrible if you not play against someone who has no clue whatsoever how to play the game. In any other instances it meant that those armies were broken as hell. 

 

 

But apart from this I am quite happy. The models look great, we get a ton of new stuff which all looks good and even the ridiculous huge Eggnators fit in very well in my Death Guard project.

 

PS: I said it before. They will introduce intelligence,  cool and the like. It was a joke but here we are. In Necromunda it works very well but we will see in 30k. The new stati will definitly interact with these.

 

 

Who knows until we have more info but I do think armour values can work alongside multi damage. Like currently a dreadnought fist can do 1 damage per attack to a vehicle exactly the same as a marine with a power fist which to me isn't right.

 

I'm remaining cautiously optimistic and I given what I've seen I can't see them dumbing down how vehicles work.

 

Hell we might even find this damage characteristic thing is only against models with wounds (thus solving the dread problem) and with vehicles it's still just a flat single hullpoint maybe with a bonus to pen or something.

[Waaagh?]

6 minutes ago, Imprudent Decision said:

Plastic Sabre?

 

I think it's just the resin one.

 

Though very cool fafnir rann conversion just behind it.

[lansalt]

13 minutes ago, Corswain said:

The lore is also a bit lazy and Primaris-y for me - "well there is super armour and now there is super-duper armour."

As much as GW repeats that Saturnine was Vulcan's gift for all legions, it's obvious that doesn't make sense except as another lazy retcon. Why aren't Justaerin wearing it, then? Yeah.

 

For me, it only makes sense that Saturnine was a Salamanders thing that pretty much was destroyed at Isstvan V except for a few Shattered Legions survivors, or being scavenged by the tech minded Iron Warriors.

[Wispy]

 

I really liked this Saturnine in 30k Wolfy colours they did.